Seeking suggestions for a first (real) rifle

[MrMurphy]

A Savage .270 is a solid rifle, among my favorites in bolt guns for general use. The .270, .30-06, .308 and a few other rounds will kill anything on the N. Am continent if you do your job. Bit light on grizzly or moose, but they 'have' done the job in cases where nothing else was available, just expect to use multiple hits. Ammo won't be the cheapest, but if you have a .22 bolt action 'understudy' you can practice fairly cheaply.

My primary hunting rifle is a 7mm Mauser sporterized about 50 years ago and done very well (professional job), it's in the same performance range. You can find good deals with used rifles assuming you know what you're looking at, and for (I do), I generally don't recommend it for a first-timer.

In AR's, a 6.5mm Grendel will easily do an elk with anything close to decent shot placement, and the 6.8 SPC will do the same, when the 6.8 first got into the wild out of military hands several gunwriters whacked muley's with them without any issue (one in a Remington 700 in 6.8, the other in an AR) and I've known many guys who've used them effectively on a wide variety of medium sized game. Friend uses a suppressed 6.8mm AR for hogs in the 300-400 pound range regularly.

 

[PugslyCat]

Have you considered a Mosin Nagant? My first rifle, and I love it. Fits your bill nicely.

OK, Cabelas had Mosin Nagants on sale and I couldn't pass on that deal.

I'm still buying the Savage 110. As a matter of fact I just made an additional layaway payment on it the afternoon before I found out about the Mosin Nagants being on sale.

 

[kstarheel]

Hit up Wal-Mart and pick up a Savage .308 with a bore sighted scope. Light rifle, proven round, fair price.

 

[MrMurphy]

Have the Mosin checked out by someone with a clue and ensure the headspacing is done right.


Not to mention they have the ergonomics of a 2X4....recoil off the bench can be atrocious especially in the shorter models. Shoot them prone or standing and it's not as bad.

 

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Some Mosins are in great shape, others-not so. Some were refinished, but still have lousy bores. Another thing to check is bore size, I have seen them all over the place, so some shoot a lot better than others. The M39 from Finland is considered the most accurate as it has a different twist rate, and generally is a better built rifle. The 39? Olympic rifle competition was won with a Model 39. With surplus rifles I found it best to pay a little more at a gun show where you can pick your rifle out of the piles, and look it over real good before laying down the cash. Buying through an ad is hit or miss as to what you get. On the rifles I checked the trigger pulls were a nice 2_3/4 to 3 pounds.

 

[PugslyCat]

Not to mention they have the ergonomics of a 2X4....recoil off the bench can be atrocious especially in the shorter models. Shoot them prone or standing and it's not as bad.

Yea, I'm hearing and reading a lot about the recoil. Hardly a selling point of this rifle. I'm mostly a backyard plinker, so I'm much more likely to be shooting prone or standing than I am to shoot from a bench.

Some Mosins are in great shape, others-not so. Some were refinished, but still have lousy bores.

Cosmetically, the stock on this one looks like it was frequently used as a club. Sighting down the barrel with a light in the chamber the bore seemed to be pretty good. The action is the smoothest of the bunch I had to choose from.

Another thing to check is bore size, I have seen them all over the place, so some shoot a lot better than others.

I hadn't thought of that, nor given the headspacing a thought as MrMurphy pointed out. I'll see what I can figure out on any of that tonight.

With surplus rifles I found it best to pay a little more at a gun show where you can pick your rifle out of the piles, and look it over real good before laying down the cash. Buying through an ad is hit or miss as to what you get. On the rifles I checked the trigger pulls were a nice 2_3/4 to 3 pounds.

I have a local Cabelas that I bought it from. They had a couple of dozen Mosins in the rack for me to choose from. There is no way I would buy something like this without being able to do some sort of inspection. There is just too much variation between surplus rifles to buy one blind.

 

[tinashubby]

Brownell's sells go/no go and field guages for 7.62x54 cheap enough, so you can check headspace yourself. Years ago I stumbled on a very informative website, can't remember it, but I am sure you can find a plethora of information on these things.

 

[MrMurphy]

www.milsurps.com

Canadian run site, they know stuff NOBODY else knows when it comes to anything ever issued by an army which went bang.

Figure out which one you want, get an account there, start reading and asking questions. They figured out where my SMLE was made, and when, when nobody else could be sure. Mine was built during the London Blitz.

 

[mrb7]

I think the Okie head space gauges are the best on the market.

Another good resource is russian-mosin-nagant-forum,com

That one is a preservation site. Don't even mention modifications to them.

My experience has been that the ones which look like they were used as a club are actually better shooters. They're real battle rifles that were worthy of refurbishing at the armory, not rack queens.

 

[petr]

find a nice old .222 and have a lot of fun.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I am partial to .223 and .308 for obvious reasons. Now for hunting, the .308 is definitely the more versatile cartridge. Lots of loads available for different jobs, nearly as many as the 30.06. The .223 cartridge is an adequate deer cartridge except that some states do not allow .22 bore rifles to be used for deer. Some other .22 variants have a rather dodgy performance on deer. For mulies, no, I would say the .223 would not be a wise choice at all. Even for whitetails, shot placement is critical. The .223 is cheaper to shoot, though, so better for plinking.

Both of those cartridges have excellent semiauto guns chambered for them. A used Ruger Mini-14 is a really fun gun to shoot. With the flush magazine, it is an okayish hunting rifle, and the Ranch Rifle variant is a decent if unspectacular brush country deer rifle or varmint gitter. Yeah a bolt gun chambered for .223 would probably make you happy but a used mini-14 wouldn't break the bank, and going bambambambambam! is more fun (but more expensive) than going bam snickety snack bam snickety snack bam. Mini-14 = fun.

The .308 cartridge has some nice guns too, in bolt and also in semiauto. A used Springfield Armory M1A is probably over your budget but a Norinco in good shape might fit the bill. A 700 if you can find it reasonably priced, is a great bolt gun as is the very reasonably priced Ruger American. Oh, on the 700 there are some production years that have some minor problems and you should research that before whipping out the plastic on one. But I doubt that any of them would disappoint, especially if you have a good gunsmith service it for you.

With an eye on the future, it makes sense to go with a cartridge now that you will always use, and one that has both bolt and semiauto offerings. Hey, you say you arten't worried about the zombie apocalypse or the fall of western civilization or a soviet/Chinese/Korean/Iranian/Canadian invasion, but maybe that's just cause it hasn't happened yet, LOL! Seriously, keep it fun as well as functional.

THought about trying black powder? That's kinda fun, just on the opposite end of the spectrum from where I like to be. And many states have black powder seasons. Just sayin.

 

[PugslyCat]

Brownell's sells go/no go and field guages for 7.62x54 cheap enough, so you can check headspace yourself.

I've done some looking and the gauges seem to be something I just stick in the chamber and it either closes or it doesn't. Some places recommend removing the extractor before trying to get the gauge in but others say it just might squeeze in.

Seems like the "go" gauge is optional by some commenters as so very few fail that.
The "no-go" gauge seems kind of important as failing the test may mean the release of gasses into parts of the gun not intended to hold such pressure.
The field gauge seems to be a "no-go" gauge built to a slightly relaxed standard. It isn't quite right, but good enough for comrade private to be a rifleman instead of clearing mine fields for the rest of his war.

www.milsurps.com - Canadian run site, they know stuff NOBODY else knows when it comes to anything ever issued by an army which went bang.

I'll check it out.

I think the Okie head space gauges are the best on the market.

I'm checking them out now. I'll probably get their go/no go set. I don't want to mess with a rifle that will only pass the lower standards of the field gauge.

I just remembered that my neighbor has at least one of these rifles. I may just see if he has gauges that I could borrow. I hate to get $50 of tools to use once on a $130 gun.

Another good resource is russian-mosin-nagant-forum,com

That one is a preservation site. Don't even mention modifications to them.

I'll check that forum as well. I won't mention that I'm thinking of getting the ATI replacement stock as a temporary measure while I refinish the existing stock, assuming everything else checks out OK with the gun.

My experience has been that the ones which look like they were used as a club are actually better shooters. They're real battle rifles that were worthy of refurbishing at the armory, not rack queens.

I'll have to post a picture of this one. It's definitely cosmetically challenged. I suspect Cabelas had these marked down to clear their shelves of the scratch and dent stuff.

find a nice old .222 and have a lot of fun.

I've got a few of those already. Wanting to move up just a tad, especially to something I can reload. The supplies of .22LR have been pretty spotty around here this year.

 

[mrb7]

The Okie gauges do not require you to remove the extractor. Others do.

I really don't like pressing out the extractor if there's no reason. Of course, if there's reason to, then by all means.

 

[ksb63]

Hadn't read this thread since I posted in early October, was in cabelas and picked up a mosin. Shoots great hitting 8x10 paper off the bat at 100 yds. Recoil not as bad as everyone says put 40 rounds down range and and not even sore next day. Going to add a scout scope to tighten up group. Was actually bought for my wife, she has been collecting lomonosov for years, so I thought I'd get her a Russian rifle. She put her first two (only shot twice) on paper. Don't think she has shot a rifle larger than a 22 . It surprised me I could still hit when haven't fired a rifle since 82.

 

[Argonaut]

I bought a Savage 11/111 Trophy Hunter XP rifle/scope combo today at Academy for $499.00. The scope is a Nikon 3-9X40 BDC scope. I got the .270, couldn't be happier with the caliber or the gun combo. I have no aspirations to be a 1000 yard sniper, just wanted a do it all rifle for deer, hogs, and maybe an elk someday. I think the worst thing I did was read too many forum opinions on the subject. 7mm, 30.06, and .270 are so close in ballistics, they barely matter, unless the person you ask possess one or the others. Once you start trying to reach out to 300yards plus, with unfailing accuracy, get a spotter and go to sniper training school. Way too many variables start coming in to play to think that the right rifle and scope are going to make the marksman. If you're just going to shoot at milk jugs out past that distance, that's fine, but not on wildlife IMO. I shouldn't be too hard on the online communities, but you seem to get one useful post to 30 fanboy posts. Im not talking about B&B, but I imagine the OP and I have been scouring the same interweb confusion over the last few months.

 

[auk1124]

I think the worst thing I did was read too many forum opinions on the subject. I shouldn't be too hard on the online communities, but you seem to get one useful post to 30 fanboy posts.

Welcome to the internet.

 

[Argonaut]

Welcome to the internet.

View attachment 383190

I didn't know they made fatigues in my size!

 

[NZLocal]

+1 for the .308 you really need adjustable turrets to shoot accurately around the 300 + distance, but you just lazer the range and dial up the scope and put the cross hairs on. .270 is almost a lazer out to 300, no need for a turret scope it you not shooting past that range. The .30 cal size in 150grain bowls everything and gives you options for 130grain with 3000 fps or heavier pills for longer rang. My ex army mate has used .308 out a long way on red deer, also uses varmint 110grain for neck shots only, those pills are traveling fast!! I get less recoil with my .308 than the couple .270s I've test fired on the range. Www.ssrnz.com

 

[knlgskr]

Savage Model 99 Lever Action in 308; mount a long-eye-relief scope by Burris or Leupold.

 

[mswofford]

I have lived and hunted in Wyoming for over 45 years. At one time I was a licensed guide. First of all get a rifle you like and budget for it. If you like it you will take pride in ownership. Then you will learn to hit with it and have the confidence needed for hunting big game. You must learn your limit as far as accuracy and range. I don't fault anybody's choice of caliber as long as the caliber is adequate for the game hunted. You hear about the long distances but in reality I've taken more game at 100 yards or less and that includes antelope. Be a hunter- rifleman more than a rifleman-hunter. The answer is a scoped bolt action. Enjoy a successful hunt so you can tell lies around the campfire!