Finishers that give the most comfortable edge (and are easy to use).

[catchacoolbreeze]

As you are new to straight razors, and you say, that also with professionally honed razors you still had razor burn, I would also consider other factors than just the finisher as possible root cause for your skin irritation. Stropping and general shaving technique require some practice.

Yes absolutely - it could totally be me. My technique is definitely a work in progress. As for stropping - also a work in progress but I don't really find it that difficult. I use the weight of the razor and nothing else. I have a 3inch Heirloom value strop. It comes with a cotton component but I have not used that portion.

 

[catchacoolbreeze]

“Finished with jnats and diamond-pasted balsa progressions.”

So, that is an interesting combination and perhaps a source of your problem. First look at your edges with magnification. What you are describing sounds like a failed microchipped edge.

If a razor is properly finished on a Jnat, you do not need a diamond pasted balsa “progression” or any paste. And if you finish on a Diamond balsa progression, you do not need to finish on a Jnat.

Also, as said it is common for new stropper to roll an edge in but a few laps. What you are experiencing is not unusual.

Get some 60/100 magnification and take a look at your edges.

I apologize for the confusing grammar. I have razors that were either honed on a diamond-pasted balsa progression or a jnat. Not both.

That being said, I could have messed it up stropping. Two questions - do you have any recommendations for magnification that is suitable for razor edges? I have been seriously considering this for sometime but have not figured out what device is actually suitable for this purpose. Also, do you have a picture of what a rolled edge looks like under magnification. I am really curious.

 

[catchacoolbreeze]

I think with more experience the irritation will decrease. That said, for an easy close comfortable shave a naniwa 12k superstone sets a high standard. A few strokes on that after an 8k superstone and you are good to go. Will not be hyper-keen like a diamond pasted balsa. Much easier than a JNAT, in general. Coticules are known for their comfortable shaves, which has been my experience too. That said, there is no question they are harder to use than a naniwa 12k. You buy 10 different naniwa 12k stones and they will be identical for a intents and purposes. You buy 10 coticules and none will be like the other. You want easy use a synth, after that, if you want, you can try a natural finisher.

I used a 1k naniwa chosera, or 1k naniwa traditional (cheap but nice soaker), 3k naniwa superstone, 8k superstone, then the 12k superstone and had great results. IIRC, I read Ralf Aust sends out the razors he makes with a 12k SS edge. Don't quote me on that...

I have five finishers. The ILR is my personal favorites. Naniwa 12000 would be next and followed by the coticule and then Arkansas stones. On comfort scale that is.

Its interesting that you both mentioned the naniwa 12k. I have never really read about it with regards to comfort. I will have to do a bit more research. I am aware that coticule edges are renowned for their comfort - my only hesitation is that finding one that is actually good is a little bit of a daunting task. I already feel like I am playing the lottery with the last couple straight razors I picked up.

I'm intrigued by Arkansas stones. I really like how there are legitimate sources of new stones that are within a specific graded range. I have never really heard them regarded as comfortable. That being said, I haven't read much about them either. My understanding is that prepping the stone is everything.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

I like a 60-100x Micro Brite $10-15 online. Use the 60x for normal use and 100 if you want a closer look.

Here is a good video on how to check for a rolled edge and how to tell if your bevel is fully set.[11]

Straight Razor Sharp Tests

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[11]

 

[Toro Blanco]

I would rate them as:
1) razor quality Jnat(buy from a reputable vendor and you will get what you pay for)(Alex Gilmore, Aframes Tokyo, So Yamashida are highly regarded)
2) Thuringian (a Y/G blue is very good if you can find one but a good yellow/green is good too)
3)Surgical Black Ark or a nice translucent Ark (surface prep is key here)
4)Razor quality Coti (hardest to find of all the naturals IMHO but if you buy from the mine and ask for one they will set you up to succeed)
5)Gok 20k as the best Synthetic( 8k to 20k is very good progression as stated above, very doable)

 

[Empire straights]

If you get a small coticule bout a quick 4-5 strokes will take that out quickly. I honed on a black Arkansas to long earlier to the point where my llyn idwal couldn't smooth it out(the LI is my favorite) so I hit a coticule then quick 3 strokes on a bbw and it was superb. I actually posted recently about how lately I've been enjoying going super sharp and then mellowing it out on slates/ cotis/ bbws, they give they best shaves off my life.

 

[rbscebu]

As for being shave ready - they are passing HTT and tree topping. I will definitely be more mindful of my pressure either way. The way you describe shaving with just enough pressure to remove lather seems way to light to me. That would be even less pressure than what the razor actually weighs! I will do my best though!

As for you 6 pass shave - with those sharp edges you get, I have no doubt you have no skin damage. That being said, I must ask - is you skin still attached to your face or did it come right off?

It took me quite a while to get my edge pressure against the skin to be light enough. Yes, it is less pressure than the weight of the razor. The edge would only be just felt touching the skin. As your technique develops, you can play around with edge pressure where you may need to do so.

As for my six-pass shave this morning, that was a unique (for me) experience. I was mainly seeing if I could do it without any skin damage or irritation. I luckily succeeded and happened to get a BBS result in that area as a bonus.

 

[Tomo]

Hard Arkansas

 

[JPO]

If you get a good Jnat you can finetune the edge with slurry, but you need to get a good one.
I have found that a coticule edge is the benchmark for a smooth edge. Usually there is just a little to be desired in terms of sharpness. I have had good results if i bump up the coticule edge with only around 5-7 strokes on my shapton gs seven 0.85 micron. This way you can tune your edge to your preference. I guess you could do the same with an 8k stone.
Find you benchmark and adjust on a finishing stone. I have the 0.44 glass stone, but this is to much for me. I get a really close shave, but it feels like i have removed a layer of skin.

 

[SilverSteel]

Yes absolutely - it could totally be me. My technique is definitely a work in progress. As for stropping - also a work in progress but I don't really find it that difficult. I use the weight of the razor and nothing else. I have a 3inch Heirloom value strop. It comes with a cotton component but I have not used that portion.

It is my experience, that with good stropping on a plain hanging leather strop you should be able to notice an improvement in sharpness and smoothness compared to an edge, that's coming directly from a stone/balsa... Also you should be able to maintain the edge a while with stropping alone, without feeling the need to constantly refresh it.

With bad stopping however, the sharpness will never reach the maximum potential and quickly deteriorate after just one or two shaves. I encourage you, to do a test and check if you can maintain the edge with stopping on plain leather alone, without daily refresh on balsa. This will quickly indicate if your stropping needs improvement.

 

[stone and strop]

wow - I would have never thought a synthetic would be recommended as comfortable over naturals. I love the fact that the synthetic is consistent in that its not the stone lottery when purchasing. What do you recommend as a way to use it to touch up an edge that is dull from a bunch of shaves? Does it require a two stone progression? Can you really jump from 8k to 20k?

Its about the nicest synthetic you can shave from.
Absolutely you can go from 8k to 20k in 20-30 strokes, done.
I use naturals but keep the Gokumyo around for testing and the odd edge.
Only downside is the price, but if you want consistent, smooth, sharp edges without worrying if your stone is as good as it could be (natural). Its the way to go IMO.

 

[Empire straights]

Llyn idwal is my smoothest/ most comfortable that is still very sharp.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Thuringian.

Nothing exists that's easier & more consistent, and shaves are top notch or at least darn close.

PDSO's and the best Jnats I've used, I compare AGAINST a thuringian, because even if they are a teeny tiny bit better at this or that, the fact that Thuri's are widely known and almost universally consistent (David encountered one with defects that is the lone example I'm aware of) makes them the measuring stick I tend to use for everything else. That's high praise.

BUT, there are a ton of fakes out there and labeled examples cost an arm and a leg.


Stones that might beat one out? (in my opinion)

Arks: a LOT harder to master (and frankly, a little more technique demanding in the shave itself in my experience vs the others listed here)
Jnats: a LOT less consistently good (You basically need to buy a known excellent example, or gamble a LOT)
PDSO: a LOT harder to find

I've got some incredible coti's and while I love em, I think the top end is at best a split decision vs a Thuri.

Can't think of anything else I'd put up there with em.

Frankly I'd probably say the method edge (.1micron paste) would be what I'd recommend before anything after Thuri, Ark, PDSO, or hand-picked Coti/Jnat. There ARE good stones outside that class, but they're either not consistent or just not up to the standard of edge achievable by something as cheap and simple as the method. And that's from someone who doesn't use the method beyond a few shaves to test it.

 

[GreazyThumbs]

Alot of good advice here, but if you are newer to honing you should definitely look into the SG20k. I preferred to move to that after a 12k synthetic. Super consistent and the perfect balance of Sharp and Comfortable. I ended up selling mine our I would have offered to put an edge on for you. My journey moved me to all naturals, so regrettably I moved on from that stone. My honing preference is using JNATs now, i must have gotten lucky because the 3 I own are all capable stones. They leave great edges and are fun to hone on to boot.

 

[Slash McCoy]

When Method honing first became popular and the short stroke finish technique became standard on the balsa, a lot of people were quite amazed at how smooth a diamond edge can be. The trick of course is to prepare and use the balsa properly. There are a kadiddlyjillion ways to do it wrong and get underwhelming results. But simply following The Method isn't hard at all. Noobs are doing it their first time at bat, or at least the second go.

Before The Method, I often finished on .3μ film over picopaper, just a few laps, ultra light pressure. It tamed the sometimes slightly harsh feeling of the 1u film as it was commonly used.

Coticule edges can be soft as a kitten's tummy fur, but require multiple passes for a decent shave. They just don't have the sort of cutting power I like. I have an awesado I have messed with a bit, the only Jnat I have ever used, and the edges are much sharper than my coti edges, still comfortable, but not anywhere near as sharp as a Method edge. As comfortable? Yeah, maybe. Almost, anyway. Except a single pass shave with the balsa finish is quite acceptable and a single pass shave from the Jnat is not. Extra passes have the potential to irritate. This Jnat was used by Alfredo to hone one of my razors and he pronounced the stone and the nagura I have for it, fit for use. I still am not in love with it. I have shaved with other Jnat edges, too. A good Jnat edge is a decent shave, just not the best there is anymore.

Synthetic stones are easy and consistent. Comfort is a YMMV thing. If I try to shave off my 12k Nanny with a single pass, it does not thrill. But it is the next easiest thing to film and balsa. It is a known thing. not cheap but good quality. Most shavers are perfectly okay with a well crafted 12k Naniwa edge.

My final vote is for the balsa finish, on top of either 12k Naniwa or 1μ lapping film. It doesn't matter. The diamond/balsa edge is a diamond/balsa edge.

 

[catchacoolbreeze]

I would rate them as:
1) razor quality Jnat(buy from a reputable vendor and you will get what you pay for)(Alex Gilmore, Aframes Tokyo, So Yamashida are highly regarded)
2) Thuringian (a Y/G blue is very good if you can find one but a good yellow/green is good too)
3)Surgical Black Ark or a nice translucent Ark (surface prep is key here)
4)Razor quality Coti (hardest to find of all the naturals IMHO but if you buy from the mine and ask for one they will set you up to succeed)
5)Gok 20k as the best Synthetic( 8k to 20k is very good progression as stated above, very doable)

Thank you for the thoroughness of your reply. Regarding reputable vendors - Are they testing out each stone? As in, if I asked them, "I am looking for a stone to give me an extra comfortable edge. What do you have?"

As I am writing this...I feel like that is a lot to ask - LOL.

 

[Frank Shaves]

Thuringian.

Nothing exists that's easier & more consistent, and shaves are top notch or at least darn close.

PDSO's and the best Jnats I've used, I compare AGAINST a thuringian, because even if they are a teeny tiny bit better at this or that, the fact that Thuri's are widely known and almost universally consistent (David encountered one with defects that is the lone example I'm aware of) makes them the measuring stick I tend to use for everything else. That's high praise.

BUT, there are a ton of fakes out there and labeled examples cost an arm and a leg.

I have to admit a certain fear of trying to buy a Thuringian. If there is a trusted source for buying unlabeled Thuringians, I would love to know.

 

[catchacoolbreeze]

Its about the nicest synthetic you can shave from.
Absolutely you can go from 8k to 20k in 20-30 strokes, done.
I use naturals but keep the Gokumyo around for testing and the odd edge.
Only downside is the price, but if you want consistent, smooth, sharp edges without worrying if your stone is as good as it could be (natural). Its the way to go IMO.

This is reassuring. At this point, I am not necessarily looking for the best possible edge (although I will gladly welcome it). My biggest priority is trying to find something that keeps me in the straight razor game so my face is not in pain all of time.

With cotis and jnats - people rave about the ability to "tune" them with slurry. The stone has the ability to go a broad range. I was wondering if the SG20k has the ability to be "tuned" either by slurry, finish prep, etc.? It would make the cost a little more pallatable.

 

[catchacoolbreeze]

I have to admit a certain fear of trying to buy a Thuringian. If there is a trusted source for buying unlabeled Thuringians, I would love to know.

I would like to know this too!!!

 

[Slash McCoy]

Thank you for the thoroughness of your reply. Regarding reputable vendors - Are they testing out each stone? As in, if I asked them, "I am looking for a stone to give me an extra comfortable edge. What do you have?"

As I am writing this...I feel like that is a lot to ask - LOL.

You might be surprised at the level of service you can get from members of the community. Ask, and ye shall (maybe) receive. Don't ask, and you won't.