No love for synthetic stones?

[SilverSteel]

Synthetic are just more utilitarian. You’re not going to make a collection of Naniwa 12k super stones. One you’ve got one you’ve got them all. A show us your naniwa 12k would be a pretty boring thread. Natural stones are varied and interesting but some people just want to shave. You don’t need a big collection of stones for that.

Sounds like starting with a full synthetic progression is then the right decision for me at my current stage. I'm (not yet) interested in starting a stone collection, but simply want an highly functional setup that is reliable, efficient and capable to produce a high quality edge which is sharp and smooth (once I master the basics of honing)

 

[rbscebu]

Sounds like starting with a full synthetic progression is then the right decision for me at my current stage. I'm (not yet) interested in starting a stone collection, but simply want an highly functional setup that is reliable, efficient and capable to produce a high quality edge which is sharp and smooth (once I master the basics of honing)

You have the right idea.

I bevel-set on synthetics up to 3k. Then onto 5μm and 1μm lapping film before finishing off on diamond pasted balsa strops. Economical for under USD 100 total and consistently producing very keen and comfortable shaving edges.

I lap my synthetics flat for each SR bevel set. This averages out at about once every couple of weeks.

 

[global_dev]

To my mind the single most perfect waterstone ever designed is the Ouka, or Cerax 3k, but you don't see it talked about here, and I've never tried it for honing a razor. Because it's a glorious fast, muddy, soaking stone that feels like featherdown and cream

The Naniwa Aotoshi 2K Green Brick feels like what you described. I dont know that its perfect but its really fun and different to use than typical synths.

 

[SilverSteel]

You have the right idea.

I bevel-set on synthetics up to 3k. Then onto 5μm and 1μm lapping film before finishing off on diamond pasted balsa strops. Economical for under USD 100 total and consistently producing very keen and comfortable shaving edges.

I lap my synthetics flat for each SR bevel set. This averages out at about once every couple of weeks.

Let me start by saying, that I really don't intend to start a discussion film vs synthetics.

I have been using 3m film on a flat granite plate + balsa on acrylic glas for the last couple of month

My main reasons for wanting to try synthetics is highly subjective and has nothing to do with film performance.

I simply think, that I'm going to enjoy the whole process more than with my current film setup and I also like the idea to start getting used to synthetic stones as a preparation for a later move to natural stones.

 

[JPO]

Sounds like starting with a full synthetic progression is then the right decision for me at my current stage. I'm (not yet) interested in starting a stone collection, but simply want an highly functional setup that is reliable, efficient and capable to produce a high quality edge which is sharp and smooth (once I master the basics of honing)

I regret not getting my shapton gs seven stones earlier. You really do not need that many because of the cutting speed of these. Sometimes i boost the performance of a coticule edge by only doing 5 strokes on an 0.85 micron gs stone. I then keep some of the smoothnes from the coticule.
Some stones also do have a more narrow grit distribution then others, which makes them better suited for razors.

 

[global_dev]

Sounds like starting with a full synthetic progression is then the right decision for me at my current stage. I'm (not yet) interested in starting a stone collection, but simply want an highly functional setup that is reliable, efficient and capable to produce a high quality edge which is sharp and smooth (once I master the basics of honing)

After years of honing, many times i enjoy the full synth progression as a change from naturals. Its nice to have the chiice and variety.

 

[Gamma]

There are tons of threads on synths, they tend to come and go in waves though. For the most part, in one sense, they're not as interesting as naturals. They're common and very consistent from one example to another. Naturals can have much more mystery, uniqueness, and intrigue surrounding their presence. Some are hard to find, rare, unusual, have unique history etc. If you have a new quarter in your pocket it's no big deal but if you get a silver 1950 quarter in change you'll probably show it to someone. I use synths daily for lotsa stuff, prefer naturals for most work after 1.5k but will on occasion use the 8k & 12k. Once in a while I'll do some experimenting with abrasive compounds too. Mostly, it's whatever I feel like doing, or which direction I want to try next. It's all good. I got a new 1k a while back, might get a new 2k or 3k soon also. I'm constantly discussing synths with guys that sharpen seriously though, and my lower grit synths see a lot of action.

 

[Tanuki]

My only experience is limited to Naniwa Super/Specialty stones in 1,3,5,8 and 12k. That’s what I purchased when I started honing and they work for me. I honed plenty of junk razors and “barn finds” and figured out how to get the most out of what I had. I get good edges and great shaves, can’t complain. I guess the simplicity of the setup is what appealed to me in the beginning, honing by numbers. I’m curious and paying attention to natural stones more, particularly finishers. In good time.

Ravenrock expressed my perspective better than I could. I started with films, got some diamond plates to help with really rough wild caught "junk/barn" razors, but have almost entirely landed on a Naniwa SS progression at this point, with 50/100/200k balsa/diamond as the finish.

An additional point. I spend a lot of time outside, working and recreating. I think that has a toughening effect on my skin that makes comfort less of an issue, and perhaps lowers my sensitivity to the differences between finishes.

For me, for the most part, sharp (cuts easily and close) predicts smooth (comfort and lack of irritation). And I have tried a lot of edges, in some cases testing 'single blind'.

 

[Tomo]

Ravenrock expressed my perspective better than I could. I started with films, got some diamond plates to help with really rough wild caught "junk/barn" razors, but have almost entirely landed on a Naniwa SS progression at this point, with 50/100/200k balsa/diamond as the finish.

An additional point. I spend a lot of time outside, working and recreating. I think that has a toughening effect on my skin that makes comfort less of an issue, and perhaps lowers my sensitivity to the differences between finishes.

For me, for the most part, sharp (cuts easily and close) predicts smooth (comfort and lack of irritation). And I have tried a lot of edges, in some cases testing 'single blind'.

So is diamond paste synthetic or natural? I’ve often wondered about this.

 

[SilverSteel]

So is diamond paste synthetic or natural? I’ve often wondered about this.

Interesting question, I always thought of it as synthetic. I am not sure, but I think that the diamonds typically used in abrasives are synthetic ones. Also the bonding material in the paste is synthetic I would guess.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Diamonds use for honing paste and plates are synthetic diamonds. All synthetic stones, film and paste are highly controlled, uniform grit as is the binders or carriers for paste. Naturals are made in nature by nature over millions of years, the grit is not completely uniform in size or grit as is the binder.

It is that randomness that gives Natural stones the ability to finish an edge microscopically random. Look at a film edge under magnification, the stria is totally uniform in size and in pattern. Then look at a natural Jnat bevel and see the random sandblast Kazumi finish.

It is kind of like the difference between a hand cut file and a machine cut file, hand cut files will always outperform in cutting ability and finish quality.

Add to the mix, none of us have the same skin, beard, razor, or exact same stone or technique. So, comparisons are always skewed. I have some guys I hone for that request a ,03um film finish pasted with CBN, these folks have heavy beards and tough skin.

 

[IMightBeWrong]

I really love the Suehiro Gokumyo 20k. The allure of naturals, though, is similar to the allure of straights in that we know they aren't the most convenient options but that's not why we reach for them to begin with. There's history involved, and the idea of being able to get a great edge using a piece of steel and a chunk of earth is just plain fun. It takes a lot more time and effort to learn to use naturals, but it's a hobby and that's okay. If all you want is a great shave with a straight, synthetics can give amazing edges.

 

[SilverSteel]

My set of Naniwas arrived today and I just had to try them immediately. I spend around 3 hours flattening the stones (1k, 3k, 5k, 8k, 12k) and running my trusty old gold dollar through a full progression. I finished on diamond pasted balsa as the Gokumyo 20K did not arrive yet. I am quiet happy with the first result and the very comfortable shave I got out. As expected, I really enjoyed using the stones and think, that I am not going to touch the lapping film for a while.

 

[JPO]

My set of Naniwas arrived today and I just had to try them immediately. I spend around 3 hours flattening the stones (1k, 3k, 5k, 8k, 12k) and running my trusty old gold dollar through a full progression. I finished on diamond pasted balsa as the Gokumyo 20K did not arrive yet. I am quiet happy with the first result and the very comfortable shave I got out. As expected, I really enjoyed using the stones and think, that I am not going to touch the lapping film for a while.

You have a really nice setup there. I have the 8k, which polish really well. I glued mine to a piece of matching slate. They seem to warp a little. I have heard that they stabilize if they are soaked a few minutes. I know they are splash and go stones, but my 8k seems to work better if i soak it for around 2 minutes. They also seem to develop a soft and inviting top layer when they are freshly lapped and soaked briefly.
I do not want to spread any misleading info here, so is it ok to soak these stones just a few minutes before use?

 

[cotedupy]

You have a really nice setup there. I have the 8k, which polish really well. I glued mine to a piece of matching slate. They seem to warp a little. I have heard that they stabilize if they are soaked a few minutes. I know they are splash and go stones, but my 8k seems to work better if i soak it for around 2 minutes. They also seem to develop a soft and inviting top layer when they are freshly lapped and soaked briefly.
I do not want to spread any misleading info here, so is it ok to soak these stones just a few minutes before use?

Apologies for what is perhaps a stupid q... are we talking SS or Pro/Chosera here?

SS can be soaked as long as you want. Pro/Chosera you probably shouldn’t at all. A few mins I imagine would be fine, but better not to.

 

[JPO]

Apologies for what is perhaps a stupid q... are we talking SS or Pro/Chosera here?

SS can be soaked as long as you want. Pro/Chosera you probably shouldn’t at all. A few mins I imagine would be fine, but better not to.

I am referring to super stones. My pro stones works just fine as splash and go, but my 8k SS can get a bit grabby if i use it the same way.

 

[cotedupy]

I am referring to super stones. My pro stones works just fine as splash and go, but my 8k SS can get a bit grabby if i use it the same way.

Ah cool - yeah soak away if ya fancy!

 

[SilverSteel]

You have a really nice setup there. I have the 8k, which polish really well. I glued mine to a piece of matching slate. They seem to warp a little. I have heard that they stabilize if they are soaked a few minutes. I know they are splash and go stones, but my 8k seems to work better if i soak it for around 2 minutes. They also seem to develop a soft and inviting top layer when they are freshly lapped and soaked briefly.
I do not want to spread any misleading info here, so is it ok to soak these stones just a few minutes before use?

Great information, thanks! I'll try to soak the 8k and see if I notice a difference.
I was surprised how much I preferred the feedback and ergonomics from the stones over the lapping film. It is not hard at all to perform clean movements with a very light touch on the stones (I've been handholding them).

 

[Rumlover]

I agree with a lot of what everyone is saying.

@SilverSteel. I think that once you get you SG20k it will be like a revelation. A wonderful marriage of keen and smooth.

I have mostly the shapton glass series (1k, 2k, 4k, 8k, 16k). Along with a 1k chosera and the SG20k, And 3 handheld jnats with few naguras. These, out of my collection, is what I play with the most. And I am still surprised at how well the SG20k keeps up in the race.

I got into naturals because first, I was struggling and @Steve56 was willing to help me out. He introduced me to jnats because I liked the super keen edges though not realizing how smooth they could be too at the time. And when working with slurry, a lot of what I was struggling with was being alleviated. So I stuck with it. For a while I was getting good edges not realizing that I was learning more and more. And when I went back to my SG20k I was surprised at the edge I was getting. It was mostly because I was learning how to build a good foundation for the edge. For me not knowing that I’m not working enough on each stone was a big revelation in foundation.

So I love both synth and natural. I think they both have their place even as finishers. I love the edges off of my SG20k and my jnats. So these 2 will be hard for me to let go of.

As for why some move to naturals from synth, most honers who “shave to hone” just love to learn and any new stone can be a new world of knowledge. Though you can get it from synths, they are highly uniform. Naturals there is a bit more learning curve even between each individual natural.

 

[RayClem]

I agree with a lot of what everyone is saying.

@SilverSteel. I think that once you get you SG20k it will be like a revelation. A wonderful marriage of keen and smooth.

I have mostly the shapton glass series (1k, 2k, 4k, 8k, 16k). Along with a 1k chosera and the SG20k, And 3 handheld jnats with few naguras. These, out of my collection, is what I play with the most. And I am still surprised at how well the SG20k keeps up in the race.

I got into naturals because first, I was struggling and @Steve56 was willing to help me out. He introduced me to jnats because I liked the super keen edges though not realizing how smooth they could be too at the time. And when working with slurry, a lot of what I was struggling with was being alleviated. So I stuck with it. For a while I was getting good edges not realizing that I was learning more and more. And when I went back to my SG20k I was surprised at the edge I was getting. It was mostly because I was learning how to build a good foundation for the edge. For me not knowing that I’m not working enough on each stone was a big revelation in foundation.

So I love both synth and natural. I think they both have their place even as finishers. I love the edges off of my SG20k and my jnats. So these 2 will be hard for me to let go of.

As for why some move to naturals from synth, most honers who “shave to hone” just love to learn and any new stone can be a new world of knowledge. Though you can get it from synths, they are highly uniform. Naturals there is a bit more learning curve even between each individual natural.

There is a YouTube video on the Real Razors channel in which a G20K is used all the way from bevel setting to final finishing. As you might expect, at 20K it takes much longer to set the bevel than it would on a 1K stone. However, it does highlight the flexibility of the Suehiro G20K.

It is an expensive hone (around $300 US), but it does a great job. I would not recommend it for bevel setting, but it is one of the very best finishers available.