Moved on to ATG Single Pass with RazoRock Hawk V3OC and then RazoRock BBS and they’re even better at this with my limited skill set. The Hawk did a better job, but the BBS is more comfortable.
ASP - ATG SINGLE PASS
- Thread starter JoWolf
- Start date
I have the RazoRock Hawk V3-OC. I go 3 passes: ATG, ATG, WTG. The last pass WTG is mostly just to check if I missed any areas. I'm sure I can reduce my passes to 2. Are you doing a single ATG pass and then a cleanup pass, or one single pass and done? I'm kinda lazy with the skin stretching, so reducing my shaves to a single pass seems possible if I put more effort into it. It's my jawline that gives me some concerns. Technically I go about 5 passes over my jawline if I count the cleanup passes.
Usually a single pass and a little cleanup, but will go for one pass and swear vengeance on the stragglers on the next shave.
With placing the cap on slickly lathered, skin, I’m finding external skin stretching isn’t really needed. Get the edge parallel to your hair and just the lightest ‘correction’ raises skin/lowers the razor and seems to slightly lift the hair up from the follicles to be cut clean ATG.
At and below my jawline is a hard-to-track grain pattern. Like it all flows towards the Adam’s apple so some if N-S, E-W, S-N, W-E with diagonals added for good measure. To deal with that, I usually make mostly-ATG cross-hatch/zig-zag little strokes.
Just recently started getting the hang of using a Micromatic and it can allow for long, smooth, repeated strokes over the same area until the hair is gone, but that’s also very easy for a heavy-handed person like me to mess up and get a little alum sting or a lot worse.
The two ways that seem to get me smoothest with the least boo-boos are so similar, yet somehow mutually exclusive:
1. Skin stretching (I use a damp face cloth and some people put alum on their finger tips and there’s also chin tilting, cheek puffing, and lip stretching as needed), shallow ATG over most areas, and so light a touch the cap, comb, or side of the blade is so very barely touching the skin. If the blade has any hesitation as it cuts, reposition it so it cuts cleanly with no noticeable effort.
That’s the one to master if you’re ever even just thinking of moving on to a straight razor or barber razor and I haven’t mastered it. Not even close.
Not all SR users use that extreme I’m mentioning, but I’m assuming you have it in your head that starting a shave WTG or XTG is throwing in the towel. Projection on my part.
2. Very mild skin stretching (tilting one’s head or stretching lips or puffing cheeks to take up some of the slack), shallow ATG over most areas, and light touch, but not so light that the cap, comb, or side of blade feels like a piece of feather down barely tickling above the skin. The cap will sink slightly into your skin and glide your blade ever forward into your whiskers (or the back of your chin if you don’t point skyward shaving between it and your Adam’s apple).
For further research on method 1, please read this and apply it to ATG shaving.
For further research on method 2, please read this and that and apply them to ATG-only shaving.
EDIT - since I’m much newer on not scraping myself raw than I should, may I please strongly suggest smarter, more successful people?
@JoWolf @Esox @jmudrick @rabidus all excel at ATG-only safety razor shaving and @camoloc has even done it with his straight razors
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I tried 2 passes: ATG, ATG, spending more effort on skin stretching, and my shave was noticeably less close than typical. I think I'll postpone trying this again until after the OBIF challenge, that way I can try it with a fresh blade.
Good on you for making the effort to improve your shave. With practice, the angles and closeness will come.
While learning; I’m still learning; a sharp blade usually works much better. While my last Proline saw 25 uses and is ready for ??? more, I can’t safely use a GEM or DE blade more than 2-4 times before it won’t be friendly.
And then there are experienced ATG-only shavers that use a blade once and bin it or consider a blade bad if it gets only 60 or so shaves.
You’re doing all this with an Ikon Tek, right? You’re a braver man than me.
While learning; I’m still learning; a sharp blade usually works much better. While my last Proline saw 25 uses and is ready for ??? more, I can’t safely use a GEM or DE blade more than 2-4 times before it won’t be friendly.
And then there are experienced ATG-only shavers that use a blade once and bin it or consider a blade bad if it gets only 60 or so shaves.
You’re doing all this with an Ikon Tek, right? You’re a braver man than me.
@Eben Stone , I got better at that first method (very light touch) using a tip from @GAW9576
If the razor pushes into the skin at all, it’s too much pressure.
With that, I was able to hold my GEM Micromatic Open Comb with a grip as light as @JoWolf describes without the blade following the ATG pattern directly into my face like when I normally use a light grip.
If the razor pushes into the skin at all, it’s too much pressure.
With that, I was able to hold my GEM Micromatic Open Comb with a grip as light as @JoWolf describes without the blade following the ATG pattern directly into my face like when I normally use a light grip.
I use a little pressure with the R41 and Tek and go first pass ATG. So far it takes me 3 passes (ATG, ATG, WTG) to achieve a close shave. I'm participating in the Fixed Four so that will give me a good chance to dial in on the setup and I'll give it a try.
Lots of different ways certainly work. The ‘keeping all pressure off the skin’ method surprised me with how close and comfortable the shave simultaneously was.
Looking forward to what your FFFMM brings
Looking forward to what your FFFMM brings
- Thread starter
- #49
I didn’t do any skin stretching with DE shaves to speak of, and Single Pass ATG shaves were comfortable but also required clean ups to achieve BBS shaves. Now learning SR’s Skin Stretching a must no options. So the stretching also bled into the ATG DE shave reducing clean up strokes. Less strokes. More comfort. More efficiency.
In a shave Efficiency is the Grail. Wether soap, brush, lather, Blades, all efficiencIes contribute to your shave. Use the sharpest blade you can use.
My weekly head shave is a Two Pass ATG. I changed my schedule to accommodate SR learning. The Fatip Grande DE can not go beyond a four day growth for a BBS tight clean Single ATG Pass. Two ATG passes I use now with yet a lighter stroke. More strokes trying to maintain good efficiency and improved comfort. Depending on what you are trying to accomplish in your shave good efficiency Always equals good comfort. If you do not have Good Comfort. You do not have Good Efficiency.
The sharpest blade will cut the most whiskers with the fewest strokes. Use the sharpest blade you can use.
Perfect Thom. I am on that stretch learning curve with the straights. All the same dynamics in play with the apex of the beveled edged blade of the straight. Light Touch.
If the adjustments do not cut smooth and clean. Do not try to push a dull blade. Use a sharp blade. I use a single use Feather in my DE razor. it’s always the sharpest it can be. I must be very cognizant of my edge sharpness on the straights. I examine the blade with a 10x loupe before and after the shave. Blade maintenance is required for good sharpness and peak performance. A sharp blade is one of the easiest improvements to any shave.
Our modern basic wet shave is based on a three pass WTG-XTG-ATG, beard reduction. If you have accomplished this shave to consistent BBS results. No reason why you should not look for short cuts, less passes, etc. all changes dependent upon on your personal shave. All basic fundamentals are present in all good shaves. Variations are only possible if fundamentals are respected.
In other words looking for short cuts and improvements without establishing the basic shave. Is in fact the long way around. I have only used the WTG pass in my SR shave. When I perfect this pass, I will add XTG etc building my shave from the bottom up is easier than building it from the top down. When I have achieved a SR Three Pass WTG-XTG-ATG BBS shave, I will look to reduce passes same as I did with DE. Fundamentals must be respected.
Does that apply to SR or DE or both? If DE, I'm very curious to know what you do for maintenance.
Over the past few shaves; touch getting lighter each time; my blade feels sharper.
And I have a 1μ aluminum oxide polishing paper strop curing in the basement to keep it fresh for a few more (depending on how well my skills allow).
I’ve lived that remark. Found all ATG all the time has been a great technique teacher when I take the time to pay attention.
- Thread starter
- #52
Regardless of what razor you use. All parts of the shave are designed to support and enable the apex of the edge you are using.
I break down my Gold Grande after each shave and wash the razor with tea tree soap and polish the gold to a high lustre. I oil the screw threads on the head and the socket in the handle. The new single use Feather blade is sprayed with 99% ISO. Wax is removed from the blade and I blow it dry. I oil the edges of the blade with a shave oil and align the blade and lock it in. It is now waiting and ready for my weekly use. I have not used the loupe on DE blades, no reason to. I will however try it out just for ****s and giggles. It won’t change my present method on my DE routine.
Straights are a different story. Bevel sets. Blade touch ups on various stones. Stropping on various fabrics, polypropylene, cotton, linen, felt. Various leathers horse, bovine and pasted balsa are a few of the accessories I use for SR edge maintenance. There are many more.
When I was a cart shaver (not that long ago) and somewhat happily using Harry’s razors and blades. I would have thought how totally anal and how much overkill could you possibly lay on an edge. Obviously I have not found out how much and continue to look for better, and different improvement methods in edge stewardship. Would I ever consider going back to Harry. Not a chance. Way too much fun where I’m at. Depends on your perspective I guess. There is no right way. It’s what you like and what suits your shave. If your shaves are fun and enjoyable you’ve arrived. If not, try something new. Lots of stuff to try out.
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Managed to find an off-prescription happy place for my Micromatic Open Comb last night.
Instead of laying razor flat on face and slightly lifting until the blade engaged or laying it flat on my face and pressing the cap into my skin until the blade engaged, I used an almost-steep angle where the blade is at its least-rigid point (as judged by the loudness during the shave) and it was just awesome.
Very hydrated lather and very light touch made it all possible. Very smooth movements and only a little cleanup on the right sideburn and right side of neck that I can remember. Only alum sting was there, too. Everywhere else faired better.
Hoping this a rare instance of “what I like doing“ and “what works“ overlap.
Instead of laying razor flat on face and slightly lifting until the blade engaged or laying it flat on my face and pressing the cap into my skin until the blade engaged, I used an almost-steep angle where the blade is at its least-rigid point (as judged by the loudness during the shave) and it was just awesome.
Very hydrated lather and very light touch made it all possible. Very smooth movements and only a little cleanup on the right sideburn and right side of neck that I can remember. Only alum sting was there, too. Everywhere else faired better.
Hoping this a rare instance of “what I like doing“ and “what works“ overlap.
Used an Ikon X3 and Personna Platinum for ASP + cleanup.
Not quite BBS, but close. Not quite comfortable, but close.
Two passes + cleanup works better for now with this setup, but it’s smooth either way.
Like every style of whisker removal, more hassle with hydration equals less hassle with shaving.
Not quite BBS, but close. Not quite comfortable, but close.
Two passes + cleanup works better for now with this setup, but it’s smooth either way.
Like every style of whisker removal, more hassle with hydration equals less hassle with shaving.
Had a few uses of my barber razor with a Feather Pro Super blade and; even though it’s the sharpest shaving thing I’ve ever used (had a shop knife from Alvin Johnston R.I.P. that was vorpal on stilts until I made a twisting cut in some kydex …); there was no way I was going to use it ATG only or ATG first. Maybe if I got a few thousand more shaves in with it, but the other whisker snipping blade holders will let me do this stuff with more confidence.
- Thread starter
- #56
From pre shave too post shave. The events in a shave are not much different than links in a chain. Strong chains do not have weak links.
I believe I’m on the verge of adequacy.
Prep: hot shower
Lather: ARKO! applied as an extra thin, watery ghost-lather for main pass and more of the same squeezed from bristles for cleanup
Razor: whatever as long as it cuts your whiskers
Technique: Act like you’re trying to win a contest for lightest touch ever.
I did alright with it and it kept my mind able to focus without being too self conscious. Now to add skin stretching because I got fat and older than 40 before losing weight.
Prep: hot shower
Lather: ARKO! applied as an extra thin, watery ghost-lather for main pass and more of the same squeezed from bristles for cleanup
Razor: whatever as long as it cuts your whiskers
Technique: Act like you’re trying to win a contest for lightest touch ever.
I did alright with it and it kept my mind able to focus without being too self conscious. Now to add skin stretching because I got fat and older than 40 before losing weight.
- Thread starter
- #58
From electrics to Kamisori “Act like you’re trying to win a contest for lightest touch ever.” Well said Thom.
The unchanging dynamic across all disciplines.
My Fatip Grande and a Feather made it into rotation and now they and ASP don’t want to leave. When the Feather does, it’ll be time to break into my pack of Bics.
Fatip Grande, Bic, refined shea butter pre-shave, keeping the edge off the skin, and so much buffing.
Now to transfer that same fun to the RazoRock Hawk V3OC, GEM Micromatic Open Comb, and other razors. Well, not now, but when I’m better with the Fatip.
Now to transfer that same fun to the RazoRock Hawk V3OC, GEM Micromatic Open Comb, and other razors. Well, not now, but when I’m better with the Fatip.
