My Search For Smooth
- Thread starter TinyT
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- #222
Shave 51
Made in England Tech
Lord Classic
Semogue 1438
CRS Lime
Cold water, 2 passes
After applying just over half of the remaining cream to the bristles of my brush I started to face lather but it was still a bit dry for my liking, so I dipped the bristles and worked it in the palm of my left hand. When it was well hydrated I went back to my face. Better, a little light maybe but pretty good, the slickest so far with a cream.
First pass, WTG, right ear.
..not another one. The first stroke was reminiscent of last shaves, scratchy. As I neared my chin there was one area where this blade had the Super-Max Platinum beat. It was tuggier, pulling on my lower lip with such tenacity that I had to make short little strokes, scratch, scratch, scratch. Not nice. As I shaved my left side I noticed blood on my lower lip, right on the vermillion edge. I shaved my moustache with the same short, stabby strokes but was able to get away with slightly longer ones on my neck. I even found myself doing a bit of buffing at the top section before I rinsed off.
The lather left in the brush had dried out a bit but no matter, I'd already planned to use the remaining cream for this pass. The Feather's up next shave and I want to use a soap for that. I hand lathered again to start and when I painted it on my face it felt really smooth and slippery, soothing even. It was thin but very slick and the brush felt silky as I moved it over my face.
Pass 2, XTG and after one short stroke at my right ear, with a completely neutral angle I went for one of my normal, long strokes all the way to the right point of my chin.
Ouch. It didn't bleed but felt like it should have. Looks like it's back to the short strokes for the rest of this shave. I was starting to get a bit of irritation now, especially around my upper and lower lip, but around my jaw too. I wanted to shave quickly but was unable to, the time taken adding to the discomfort. The horizontal strokes across the front of my chin from left to right were fine and I had no more real issues after that. The cut wasn't bleeding badly and it didn't hurt but I shaved carefully either side of it after taking care of my upper lip. I painted a bit more lather onto my neck. It still had the same silky feel to it but appeared to be slightly thicker. I shaved my neck, the direct ATG area comfortable enough and rinsed off. I didn't want to spend any more time with this blade than necessary but the front edge of my chin was still unacceptably stubbly, so I touched it up before finishing.
After a final cold water splash and pat dry my skin showed no signs of redness but felt itchy and tight and I detected a hint of dryness perhaps but nothing requiring attention. The cut on my lip looked just like the drop of blood that appears after a pinprick, perfectly spherical, so I dabbed it with tissue paper before putting a blob of vaseline on it. I haven't been able to get along with any of the Lord blades I've tried; maybe they're not for me.
Made in England Tech
Lord Classic
Semogue 1438
CRS Lime
Cold water, 2 passes
After applying just over half of the remaining cream to the bristles of my brush I started to face lather but it was still a bit dry for my liking, so I dipped the bristles and worked it in the palm of my left hand. When it was well hydrated I went back to my face. Better, a little light maybe but pretty good, the slickest so far with a cream.
First pass, WTG, right ear.
..not another one. The first stroke was reminiscent of last shaves, scratchy. As I neared my chin there was one area where this blade had the Super-Max Platinum beat. It was tuggier, pulling on my lower lip with such tenacity that I had to make short little strokes, scratch, scratch, scratch. Not nice. As I shaved my left side I noticed blood on my lower lip, right on the vermillion edge. I shaved my moustache with the same short, stabby strokes but was able to get away with slightly longer ones on my neck. I even found myself doing a bit of buffing at the top section before I rinsed off.
The lather left in the brush had dried out a bit but no matter, I'd already planned to use the remaining cream for this pass. The Feather's up next shave and I want to use a soap for that. I hand lathered again to start and when I painted it on my face it felt really smooth and slippery, soothing even. It was thin but very slick and the brush felt silky as I moved it over my face.
Pass 2, XTG and after one short stroke at my right ear, with a completely neutral angle I went for one of my normal, long strokes all the way to the right point of my chin.
Ouch. It didn't bleed but felt like it should have. Looks like it's back to the short strokes for the rest of this shave. I was starting to get a bit of irritation now, especially around my upper and lower lip, but around my jaw too. I wanted to shave quickly but was unable to, the time taken adding to the discomfort. The horizontal strokes across the front of my chin from left to right were fine and I had no more real issues after that. The cut wasn't bleeding badly and it didn't hurt but I shaved carefully either side of it after taking care of my upper lip. I painted a bit more lather onto my neck. It still had the same silky feel to it but appeared to be slightly thicker. I shaved my neck, the direct ATG area comfortable enough and rinsed off. I didn't want to spend any more time with this blade than necessary but the front edge of my chin was still unacceptably stubbly, so I touched it up before finishing.
After a final cold water splash and pat dry my skin showed no signs of redness but felt itchy and tight and I detected a hint of dryness perhaps but nothing requiring attention. The cut on my lip looked just like the drop of blood that appears after a pinprick, perfectly spherical, so I dabbed it with tissue paper before putting a blob of vaseline on it. I haven't been able to get along with any of the Lord blades I've tried; maybe they're not for me.
AimlessWanderer
Remember to forget me!
Me and creams don't get along.
I have to lather them too rich in order to get any performance. If I have the lather as wet as I do with hard soap, my shaves feel like the one you just described. In order to get any performance, I have to mix it really rich, but then I lose all blade feel, and along with it, any sense of what's happening in the shave. I will occasionally do a hybrid lather, (load the brush lightly with soap, and add a small blob of cream to the brush before face lathering. This lets me use upn some cream without having a completely abysmal shave. I won't call it super lather like some do, it's not super at all, just a tolerable way of making cream usable.
I have to lather them too rich in order to get any performance. If I have the lather as wet as I do with hard soap, my shaves feel like the one you just described. In order to get any performance, I have to mix it really rich, but then I lose all blade feel, and along with it, any sense of what's happening in the shave. I will occasionally do a hybrid lather, (load the brush lightly with soap, and add a small blob of cream to the brush before face lathering. This lets me use upn some cream without having a completely abysmal shave. I won't call it super lather like some do, it's not super at all, just a tolerable way of making cream usable.
- Thread starter
- #224
I really wanted to like creams, especially the CRS. It smelled great in the container, limey and subtle but in use the scent is weak enough to be practically non-existent. A bit went up my nostril tonight and I still couldn't smell it, lol.
In all other respects my experience is similar yours. I'm favouring lathers with a lot of water and soaps seem to be able to take more. I've used Marco's method or a slight variation where I've had my best shaves and it can't be done with creams. Soap lasts longer too. That's the incentive to try hard soaps for me. I don't mind if it takes a bit of practice to get right when there's real long term benefit.
Cream, soap, its all the same. The only difference is the amount of water in it. Add water to a soap and it will become a cream. Leave the lid off a cream and let it dry out and it becomes soap. My CRS Sandalwood proves that fact. I used it yesterday and I still loaded it like I do Proraso in a tub.
I have two tubs of CRS cream, Rose and Sandalwood. Both are room filling scents, even with just the lid off. Both are very present and not what I'd call strong, but pure.
This is what I didnt like about samples, especially creams. They're good for getting an idea of the scent, but for having a shave with them I needed to use the entire sample tub for a single shave. When in doubt, load heavy, but you cant with those teeny tubs.
Pick a CRS scent you like and buy a tub, I very much doubt you'll be disappointed.
Oh, and they last a long damn time too lol. 5.8oz/165g tubs. I've been using my Rose for...I cant remember how long, over a year and almost two, I think. Its only half gone. For less than $15CAD, its a steal.
I have two tubs of CRS cream, Rose and Sandalwood. Both are room filling scents, even with just the lid off. Both are very present and not what I'd call strong, but pure.
This is what I didnt like about samples, especially creams. They're good for getting an idea of the scent, but for having a shave with them I needed to use the entire sample tub for a single shave. When in doubt, load heavy, but you cant with those teeny tubs.
Pick a CRS scent you like and buy a tub, I very much doubt you'll be disappointed.
Oh, and they last a long damn time too lol. 5.8oz/165g tubs. I've been using my Rose for...I cant remember how long, over a year and almost two, I think. Its only half gone. For less than $15CAD, its a steal.
Just stepping in to say hi, and blade experiment sounds interesting. Let me get a coffee and start reading... 
AimlessWanderer
Remember to forget me!
And yet they lather so differently.
Or do they?
In fairness, I haven't tried a soap and cream from the same manufacturer, so I haven't sampled the same product in solid and liquid form, to see if they perform identically. However, I also haven't found a cream which performs as well (for me) as hard soaps do. Taken to the same lather consistency, soap is always (for me, again) vastly superior, and the cream has barely any discernible performance qualitities. I might as well be shaving with just water.
- Thread starter
- #228
Interesting point.
Maybe I should've done with my cream samples what I've just done with my sample of P&B Iceni, pressed it into the bottom of my old Proraso tub and loaded it from there. They're all gone now. Where's that DeLorean?
- Thread starter
- #229
Just stepping in to say hi, and blade experiment sounds interesting. Let me get a coffee and start reading...
Welcome along. Coffee sounds good, although I'm generally a tea man myself. Tea, coffee, cream, soap....
- Thread starter
- #230
Maybe it's just a case of practice? I did find they lathered differently but I scooped what looked like the right amount and added it to the brush, a bowl or my face. I never do that with a soap but if I did I'd likely have problems, and Proraso soap is soft enough to scoop out.
What about a very wet brush using Marcos method loading from a tub of cream? It doesn't sound like it'd work but I haven't tried, so it might. I did see a video a week or two ago of Cris/Another Cut Above loading from a tub of TOBS like it was a soap. I thought he was mistaken in his approach at the time but he got a good lather and had a good shave.
Is that the kind of thing you were getting at here, Mike? You loaded it just like a soap?
What about if you didn't leave the CRS out to dry?
They lather pretty much exactly the same for me. I just use more water with soaps. I've been using both quite a while with the same brush and I can feel how the brush moves telling me I need more water.
With soaps, I give the tub a quick pass under the tap and dump off the excess. Dip about 1/2 of my brush from dry in water and start loading. If I feel the bristles stop sliding over the puck I know I need more water. They should slide over the soap, not bite into it. Then I wet my face and start lathering.
With creams, I dip the tips of my brush in water from dry, push them into the tub and give the brush a 1/4 turn. That usually picks up enough cream. If its a firm cream I may do that twice. Then I wet my face the same as with a soap and start lathering.
In either case, if I need more water I add it slowly as I'm face lathering.
Some creams, like my Captains Choice 45th Parallel are very loose creams (high water content), almost like a thick sauce. When using that cream or others like it, I just dip the tips without twisting the brush to pick up just enough. In the picture below, that was twice the amount of cream I needed and I ended up washing more down the drain than I used shaving.
Yessir!
I think my tub of CRS Sandalwood had been sitting around a while before I got it and thats why its tighter than my Rose. That hasnt affected the scent in any way I can imagine though, its fairly strong. It is softer than it was when I got it and I havent used it that much really. Its starting to soften up and might be just where I want it to be by the time its 1/2 gone, which will be a while. I wouldnt be the least surprised if I get 4 or more years out of that tub of Sandalwood. For under $4 a year thats less expensive than Nivea cream! How can anyone not buy some!
AimlessWanderer
Remember to forget me!
I can get them to lather, and can get the same consistency of lather as I would with a soap, it just performs very poorly in comparison. To get the same performance with a cream, I have to produce a richer lather, and that spoils the shaves in other ways. The easiest solution for me, is just to stick to soap. No point in making life harder than it needs to be
Nossir, it aint. Its already hard enough! lol
- Thread starter
- #234
I've been mulling over the cream/soap thing. It's been bothering me! (This happens)
I did have a look at the ingredients list for a couple of comparable soaps and creams, Trumper and Proraso.
These are the ingredients for:
Proraso White Cream
Water, Stearic Acid, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Potassium Hydroxide, Glycerin, Fragrance, Lactic Acid, Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate, Sodium Metasilicate, Tetrasodium EDTA, Menthol, Thymus Vulgaris (Thyme) Flower/Leaf Extract, Avena Sativa (Oat) Kernel Extract, Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract, Hydroxyethylcellulos, Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate, Potassium Sorbate, Hexyl Cinnamal, Geraniol, Citral, Limonene, Linalool.
Proraso White Soap
Water, Stearic Acid, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Potassium Hydroxide, Glycerin, Sodium Hydroxide, Lactic Acid, Fragrance, Menthol, Tocopheryl Acetate, Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate, Hexyl Cinnamal, Geraniol, Citral, Limonene, Linalool, Pentaerythrityl Tetra-di-t-butyl, Hydroxyhydrocinnamate, Thymus Vulgaris (Thyme) Flower/Leaf Extract, Avena Sativa (Oat) Kernel Extract, Camellia Sinensis (Green Tea) Leaf Extract, Etidronic Acid, Tetrasodium EDTA.
and:
Trumper Lime Cream
Aqua (Water), Stearic Acid, Myristic Acid, Potassium Hydroxide, Coconut Acid, Glycerin, Parfum (Fragrance), Triethanolamine, Sodium Hydroxide, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, CI 19140 (FD & C Yellow 5), CI 42090 (FD & C Blue 1), CI 14700 (FD& C Red 4), Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone, Benzyl Benzoate, Citral, Coumarin, Hexyl Cinnamal, Limonene, Linalool.
Trumper Lime Soap
Sodium Palmate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Aqua (Water), Glycerin, Sodium Cocoate, Parfum (Fragrance), Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate, Limonene, Isopropyl Myristrate, Linalool, Citral, Tetrasodium EDTA, Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone, Coconut Fatty Acid, BHT, Coumarin, CI 77891, CI 19140.1, CI 19140, CI 77288.
The differences are small, but there are differences. I believe the nearer to the beginning of the list the ingredient is, the more of it is in the product. I assume that's why water is listed first in all but the hard, triple milled Trumper Soap.
I did have a look at the ingredients list for a couple of comparable soaps and creams, Trumper and Proraso.
These are the ingredients for:
Proraso White Cream
Water, Stearic Acid, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Potassium Hydroxide, Glycerin, Fragrance, Lactic Acid, Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate, Sodium Metasilicate, Tetrasodium EDTA, Menthol, Thymus Vulgaris (Thyme) Flower/Leaf Extract, Avena Sativa (Oat) Kernel Extract, Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract, Hydroxyethylcellulos, Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate, Potassium Sorbate, Hexyl Cinnamal, Geraniol, Citral, Limonene, Linalool.
Proraso White Soap
Water, Stearic Acid, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Potassium Hydroxide, Glycerin, Sodium Hydroxide, Lactic Acid, Fragrance, Menthol, Tocopheryl Acetate, Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate, Hexyl Cinnamal, Geraniol, Citral, Limonene, Linalool, Pentaerythrityl Tetra-di-t-butyl, Hydroxyhydrocinnamate, Thymus Vulgaris (Thyme) Flower/Leaf Extract, Avena Sativa (Oat) Kernel Extract, Camellia Sinensis (Green Tea) Leaf Extract, Etidronic Acid, Tetrasodium EDTA.
and:
Trumper Lime Cream
Aqua (Water), Stearic Acid, Myristic Acid, Potassium Hydroxide, Coconut Acid, Glycerin, Parfum (Fragrance), Triethanolamine, Sodium Hydroxide, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, CI 19140 (FD & C Yellow 5), CI 42090 (FD & C Blue 1), CI 14700 (FD& C Red 4), Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone, Benzyl Benzoate, Citral, Coumarin, Hexyl Cinnamal, Limonene, Linalool.
Trumper Lime Soap
Sodium Palmate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Aqua (Water), Glycerin, Sodium Cocoate, Parfum (Fragrance), Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate, Limonene, Isopropyl Myristrate, Linalool, Citral, Tetrasodium EDTA, Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone, Coconut Fatty Acid, BHT, Coumarin, CI 77891, CI 19140.1, CI 19140, CI 77288.
The differences are small, but there are differences. I believe the nearer to the beginning of the list the ingredient is, the more of it is in the product. I assume that's why water is listed first in all but the hard, triple milled Trumper Soap.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #235
Shave 52
Made in England Tech
Feather
Semogue 1438
Phoenix and Beau Iceni
Cold water, 2 passes
I decided on a Sunday morning shave today. With my brush well soaked, including squeezing the excess air out of the bristles, I lifted it from the mug, let the water drain and loaded using Marco's method, without variation.
It's been a while since I've used this method and I'd forgotten jut how much water settles on the surface of the soap to start with. It's quite alarming initially. But, exerting no pressure on the brush I kept swirling till the water turned bubbly, then foamy, then milky. There was a lot of it so I inverted the tub and collected almost all of it with the brush.
It felt great on the face, no scratchiness whatsoever, suds dripping and filcking all over the place untill it eventually started to turn into a lovely slick, thick, yet runny looking lather. So much of it had run out onto the handle of the brush that I had to grip it at the base of the knot in the Italian fashion for the last part of the lathering process.
The smell of the P&B Iceni was subtle but enjoyable. Sweet, woody bark and a more general soap smell, very nice.
First pass, WTG. Nothing to fear from the Feather as expected, the first stroke comfortable without being spectacularly smooth. As I neared my chin the lather was running down the handle of the razor, down my arm and dripping off my elbow. One small tug at my lower lip but I increased the pressure just a fraction and it smoothed out. This razor is very light and the lather was so cushiony I had to assist in making sure the blade was touching the skin. I took my time and had to relather my neck before finishing the pass.
I lathered up for the second, a little thinner than I'd have preferred but easily slick enough. The first stroke, XTG at my right ear was maybe less smooth than the first pass, the first time I've ever noticed that, testament to just how slick my first pass lather had been. A careless stroke curving towards my chin, right side resulted in a small nick and I took care with the direct E-W strokes across the front of my chin. The left side of my face was smoother, the left chin nice and easy, moustache and lower lip too. I spotted another little weeper, right side, near the nick and when I picked up the brush to relather my neck the watery soap that had gathered round the bottom of the handle was pinkish in colour. I detected a hint of very mild irritation around my mouth as I shaved my neck, the lather not quite as slick as I expected, but problem free. I rinsed off.
After a final cold water splash I towelled off and had a check in the mirror. Just the one spot of blood remained, the weeper having already closed, no redness, no dryness. I had a bit of minor irritation as I cleared up and my skin felt a little tight. Could be the blade, could be the soap, could just be my skin today. It was very minor.
The Phoenix and Beau soap was lovely, the best soap I've used yet but the lathering method could have something to do with that. The Feather was good. It actually reminded me a little of the Derby and Personna Lab. I don't think this is a case of Feathers not being as good as people say, more that some other blades are better than they are given credit for. It's not in my first rank just yet.
I may alter my lathering method slightly for next shave, perhaps leaving out the squeezing of the bristles, but I'll see. I'm curious to see how this method of lathering affects soap useage. A lot more water is allowed on the surfce of the soap, but no pressure is applied so the soap that's gathered is much runnier. It may be more, it may be less. This is the soap after the shave.
It looks good to me, but time will tell.
Made in England Tech
Feather
Semogue 1438
Phoenix and Beau Iceni
Cold water, 2 passes
I decided on a Sunday morning shave today. With my brush well soaked, including squeezing the excess air out of the bristles, I lifted it from the mug, let the water drain and loaded using Marco's method, without variation.
It's been a while since I've used this method and I'd forgotten jut how much water settles on the surface of the soap to start with. It's quite alarming initially. But, exerting no pressure on the brush I kept swirling till the water turned bubbly, then foamy, then milky. There was a lot of it so I inverted the tub and collected almost all of it with the brush.
It felt great on the face, no scratchiness whatsoever, suds dripping and filcking all over the place untill it eventually started to turn into a lovely slick, thick, yet runny looking lather. So much of it had run out onto the handle of the brush that I had to grip it at the base of the knot in the Italian fashion for the last part of the lathering process.
The smell of the P&B Iceni was subtle but enjoyable. Sweet, woody bark and a more general soap smell, very nice.
First pass, WTG. Nothing to fear from the Feather as expected, the first stroke comfortable without being spectacularly smooth. As I neared my chin the lather was running down the handle of the razor, down my arm and dripping off my elbow. One small tug at my lower lip but I increased the pressure just a fraction and it smoothed out. This razor is very light and the lather was so cushiony I had to assist in making sure the blade was touching the skin. I took my time and had to relather my neck before finishing the pass.
I lathered up for the second, a little thinner than I'd have preferred but easily slick enough. The first stroke, XTG at my right ear was maybe less smooth than the first pass, the first time I've ever noticed that, testament to just how slick my first pass lather had been. A careless stroke curving towards my chin, right side resulted in a small nick and I took care with the direct E-W strokes across the front of my chin. The left side of my face was smoother, the left chin nice and easy, moustache and lower lip too. I spotted another little weeper, right side, near the nick and when I picked up the brush to relather my neck the watery soap that had gathered round the bottom of the handle was pinkish in colour. I detected a hint of very mild irritation around my mouth as I shaved my neck, the lather not quite as slick as I expected, but problem free. I rinsed off.
After a final cold water splash I towelled off and had a check in the mirror. Just the one spot of blood remained, the weeper having already closed, no redness, no dryness. I had a bit of minor irritation as I cleared up and my skin felt a little tight. Could be the blade, could be the soap, could just be my skin today. It was very minor.
The Phoenix and Beau soap was lovely, the best soap I've used yet but the lathering method could have something to do with that. The Feather was good. It actually reminded me a little of the Derby and Personna Lab. I don't think this is a case of Feathers not being as good as people say, more that some other blades are better than they are given credit for. It's not in my first rank just yet.
I may alter my lathering method slightly for next shave, perhaps leaving out the squeezing of the bristles, but I'll see. I'm curious to see how this method of lathering affects soap useage. A lot more water is allowed on the surfce of the soap, but no pressure is applied so the soap that's gathered is much runnier. It may be more, it may be less. This is the soap after the shave.
It looks good to me, but time will tell.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #237
Tonights shave will be with the last blade in my initial round of testing.
Now, a new and simultaneous project has emerged.
The Lather Games
Any one who's been following along will know that I've had one or two issues with lathering. A post in the brush section caught my attention today and it led me to these three videos. They're very informative and contain some good analysis of lather explosion and soap particle and water incorporation.
Thanks to @Atlantic59 for the initial post.
I'll start with the first method and work my way through, unless my plans change, which is likely but not inevitable, and I will start tonight.
Now, a new and simultaneous project has emerged.
The Lather Games
Any one who's been following along will know that I've had one or two issues with lathering. A post in the brush section caught my attention today and it led me to these three videos. They're very informative and contain some good analysis of lather explosion and soap particle and water incorporation.
Thanks to @Atlantic59 for the initial post.
I'll start with the first method and work my way through, unless my plans change, which is likely but not inevitable, and I will start tonight.
- Thread starter
- #238
Shave 53
I should've listened to Al Swearengen. I can hear God laughing.
I've just had to abort my shave after trying each of the methods above and using up the rest of my Iceni sample in the process. All I eneded up with each time was a bubbly, dissipating foam, not even close to being a lather. Impossible to shave with. And it took an age.
Oh well, nothing ventured....
I should've listened to Al Swearengen. I can hear God laughing.
I've just had to abort my shave after trying each of the methods above and using up the rest of my Iceni sample in the process. All I eneded up with each time was a bubbly, dissipating foam, not even close to being a lather. Impossible to shave with. And it took an age.
Oh well, nothing ventured....
AimlessWanderer
Remember to forget me!
Remember Edison and the lightbulbs....
- Thread starter
- #240
Thanks Al, I haven't read that before. I'm feeling calmer already.
