I’m going to have to disagree with you here. If you can’t get a decent shave off a 12k stone then there is something wrong with your honing. When I first started coming to these forums an 8k stone was considered a finisher and no one complained about it. Yes you can go further and chase the ultimate edge, but if you can’t get an irritation free shave from a 12k stone then I consider that an issue.12k ain’t going to cut coarse hair efficiently with no irritation, and especially if you shave your whole face where some spots give an Artist Club blade a challenge