Young pu-erh - gauging the aging potential

[netsurfr]

Well, I know almost nothing about this other that some of the reading that I have done in some of the various tea forums. Based on that reading, I had come to the conclusion that a green pu-erh needed to have a rather bold taste profile in order to age well. So, what does bold mean, you may ask? OK, this seems to be a term of art in the tea world so I would like to invite comment in this thread on the characteristics of a young green pu-erh that would age well.

I recently commented to one of my tea suppliers in China about some samples that I had received that were 100% old arbor tree tea. I was struck by the fact that these samples had very little astringency for a 2010 tea and I queried as to whether these teas had good aging potential given this lack of astringency.

My friend related that: "For old tree Pu Er tea, since its overall mouth-feeling is coordinated quite well (means its astrigency, bitterness is quite coordinated, and you don't feel too much upset or uncomfortable after drinking it), that is why pure old tree Pu Er tea is so popular and adored by people. For pure bush Pu Er, it has high astrigency, bitterness. So people would like it to store it to get rid of the bitterness and astrigency and only drink it after a few years. Hence, that is why blended teas (bush and old tree) came into being. To blend some bush Pu Er with old tree to get a good coordinated mouth-feeling, is to have a good, smooth tea liquid.

For pure old tree, as it ages, its aroma will diappear; however, its taste will become more smooth and less strong than new. In addition, the sweetness of the liquor increases. For bush, after aging, its taste will also become smoother. However, the thickness of the bush tea liquid, and aftersweetness and throat feeling can't compete with old tree."

I find this to be very interesting and it was certainly something that I did not previously know.

So, what else do you all think makes a green pu-erh with good aging potential? What do you look for when sampling the young tea to make this determination?

 

[shah8]

I think that's pretty hard to say...

For example, the 2005 Malaysian First Puerh Trade Fair bing violates many of the rules. It's fairy tippy and it was a gentle tea from the outstart. Such that when the 2006 Expo blend from Chen Chi-tong came out, people liked it more and had higher expectations. Same with the Taipei Fair blend. But guess what's still available to be sold today and what's not? The 2005 is far more humble and understated than the younger teas, but has for more genuine magic in the experience. It's not obviously ageing in the sense that the taste is growing woodier, but in a concentration of essence and sensibility. So storage is a big part of the story and always will be.

I suspect that smokeyness is a fairly good thing because it helps preserve subtleties present in new teas such that they'll be there in old teas. Too much bad smoke is bad, of course, but good smoke works the way good Souchong does, as an accent and as a preservative.

I think I have barely enough experience drinking and reading to know that you don't want majority small leaf, either in cultivar or buds. They generally don't have the tannins to age very well because they are too tender. If it's something with an explicit record, because it's from Jingmai or Yibang, then that's okay, but the majority will wither away. If you have a rough one or an oxidised leaf, it's never going to over-come it.

As far as overly processed tea, well, oxidised tea isn't really all that much a problem for me. If the tea is still robust and not especially hongcha, then it will still age. Not quite as exquisitly as it might otherwise, but not really a problem. One must remember that most of the big-time arbor teas from the late '90s and early '00s were oxidised to some extent so that they'd sell. They had no problems aging into something extremely tasty. The bigger problem is buying some random premium from that time, because there are plenty of those that are genuinely over-oxidised, but there is still a price premium for the tea of that age. The thing to spot is any sort of craftyness, like leaf with general red around the edges and up the stem, like an oolong. Also, look for premature sourness. Many elite arbor leaf are going to be sour at some point in time, kind of like a dull fullness like grapefruit juice in a saucer that's been sitting in a room all day. It should be soft and heavy and minerally. Bad sour is the kind of taste that you roast the oolong again when you taste it. If a tea is malty with a fairly abrasive, sharp sourness, then that's gonna age poorly.

There are other processing, which is more bothersome than a little malt. The sort of technique that bumps up the tobacco taste has a tendency to leave the leaf hollow. A little is fine, as with malt, but it's a more dangerous, overt processing. I'd been fairly suspicious of the HaiLangHao Ban'E for this reason. I think it has a high risk of merely fading rather than get woody like it should. And fade with the se bitterness still intact.

I also follow brands with older products that have been known to age well. I dig Menghai more for its shu, but I think in the context of today's maocha prices, it can't be beat for young sheng that you really intend to age. They've got the plantations, they've got the experience, etc, etc. I, of course, also think Chen of XiZiHao fame also knows what he's doing when it comes to blending an ageable cake. The test cakes are famously doing well, and I think his 2006 and 2007 products are coming along quite well in my care, and I suspect that for all the complaints about the qualities of the 2007 cakes, they are beginning to age very well now. The only real busts are the Kuzhushan, the C grade cakes, and to a limited extent, the Yongxueshan and Jinggu nuer cha. Thus, another key measure for me is that--are the 2007 cakes from this maker getting good now? Three years in a non-ultra-dry storage is usually enough to reveal some degree of baseline ultratasty. I do not find samples of Chi-tong from 2006 to be especially compelling compared to fresh tea, which has meant that I've disregarded his brand. Wonder how that 2000 brick is doing?

As far as bitterness and harshness is concerned, I think that's fairly easy. The bitterness should eventually go away in the mouth and it should not build as the session continue. Harshness merely makes it hard for you to enjoy the drink. It doesn't disguise the genuine qualities. One also has to watch for drastic changes for the worse, as that indicate processing issues.

As for the taste itself. Well, the good wild arbors are just ready to drink. They'll get better, but they'll get sour for awhile as well. The reason why you'd buy high quality wild arbor is that they have magic in the way that lao cong wuyi and lao cong dancong have magic. That magic tends to remain, and make the tea worth drinking even if the flavor is fading. I do not think the flavor will fade all that much. More important that you have good texture in the liquid. Then if it's stored well, then there is very little chance a tea will be bad in the very long run.

I've been buying wild arbor, trying to emulate Tomas Arva at the Great Houde Rush, and pile up on as much quality wild arbor as I can slap my credit card on. I don't think young puerh tea with magic will leave East Asia for the hoi polloi in any quantity more that what you might spot at The Mandarin's Room or Cloudwalker Teas. The wholesale purchase of all that Pu Zhen '07 at once was disturbing, and I don't think I was stupid anymore for buying that '09 DXS for such a high price and downright genius for buying as many gift sets as I did. That shu and the tin is for freakin' free, folks. How Scott prices his own brand stuff is also highly informative. Like that Nannuo. It's pretty much a mutt, flavor-wise, but it's actually quite decent for a western Banna puerh that's namby pamby. However, it's $47 for 500g. And it's not an outrageous price for this year's tea. Just a good light sheng with enough muscle and every checkbox checked off to age well, and it's impossible to buy this tea in quantity for most average people. I do suggest that people start looking at '06-07 carefully and sample them--and buy as much Nada Cha as they can afford ;~).

 

[netsurfr]

Wow, thank you so much for such a comprehensive first reply to the discussion thread. It is obvious that this student of tea has very, very much to learn. What a wonderful journey to have embarked upon.

 

[shah8]

I do think lao cong teas are fundamentally a category on their own, and I think one of the best way to grasp its elements, which tends to be subtle for people who aren't used to it, is to drink bad lao cong teas.

For instance, today, I decided to drink some XZH BanPo Lao Zhai Nannuo tea. I'm always hesitant about this tea because it can really bust on you. Today I got it to go, and I still gotta agree with MarshalN that it has real issues, and was probably was processed poorly. The front of the mouth gets very little taste, and throughout the session, only has one or two cups with a strong primary taste, which is, of course delightful, juniper forest and wine, with a caramel huigan. However, there is always a ton of flavor on the back end of my mouth and in my throat. Gushu to me, as a category, is about yun, and more extensively, about a yun that builds up and spits out flavor back into the mouth, comcommitant with an aroma that rises to the back of your palatte where your mouth sense of smell is. It is about a pervasive feeling of flavor and qi. Bad gushu offers little primary flavor worth having, and frees you up to enjoy, what you can of it, the throat feel and qi.

One correction. Chen Chi-Tong did both the 2005 and 2006 bings. So make that *one* tea of his I'm impressed with.

 

[Drybonz]

My friend related that: "For old tree Pu Er tea, since its overall mouth-feeling is coordinated quite well (means its astrigency, bitterness is quite coordinated, and you don't feel too much upset or uncomfortable after drinking it), that is why pure old tree Pu Er tea is so popular and adored by people. For pure bush Pu Er, it has high astrigency, bitterness. So people would like it to store it to get rid of the bitterness and astrigency and only drink it after a few years. Hence, that is why blended teas (bush and old tree) came into being. To blend some bush Pu Er with old tree to get a good coordinated mouth-feeling, is to have a good, smooth tea liquid.

For pure old tree, as it ages, its aroma will diappear; however, its taste will become more smooth and less strong than new. In addition, the sweetness of the liquor increases. For bush, after aging, its taste will also become smoother. However, the thickness of the bush tea liquid, and aftersweetness and throat feeling can't compete with old tree."

For a beginner, like myself, what is a good old tree Pu Er tea to sample so that I can learn the difference between this and a pure bush tea (I'm assuming pure bush is what I have been drinking because I have just tried young and inexpensive Pu Ers so far)?

 

[shah8]

Search vendor sites for "maocha". netsurfr has some cheap lao cong maocha on his site. Nannuo, like the one I've had today. Houde and Puerh Shop also has maocha.

When you try them, make sure you pay attention to what is happening in the back of your mouth and your throat. Bush tea will have some flavor there and it will have a huigan and some yun. On the other hand, lao cong will have flavor that rises off the tongue after contact and initial taste with the warm soup and strong taste in the back of the mouth. Flavor will also stick everywhere. Yun builds and aroma rises.

Don't be surprised if you don't get it at first. It's a taste version of those 3D stereoscopic prints where you have to cross your eyes and brains just right to get a picture.

 

[Drybonz]

When you try them, make sure you pay attention to what is happening in the back of your mouth and your throat. Bush tea will have some flavor there and it will have a huigan and some yun. On the other hand, lao cong will have flavor that rises off the tongue after contact and initial taste with the warm soup and strong taste in the back of the mouth. Flavor will also stick everywhere. Yun builds and aroma rises.

Ok... thanks for the tips. Huigan means aftertaste right? I'm not sure what yun means.

 

[shah8]

Both huigan and yun are aftertastes. They are sort of similar. To me, a huigan is like Charybodis, spitting back out sweet breath after swallowing bitter seas. Yun could be considered a more lasting huigan that stays in the throat and flavors creep/splash out instead of geysering out. I tend to think of yun as a ring of flavor in my throat, which is the top of a tibetian singing bowl. Each sip I take is like one stroke by the mallet around that rim, producing a harmony that spills out of the throat.

 

[Drybonz]

I'll probably have to take some poetry classes if I want to keep having these tea discussions.

 

[shah8]

In general, it's not easy to describe what is a good tea beyond what makes a decent cuppa. Sure, there's some stuff, but then a person would just hand you a cup of shu, and then you say, that's not "alive". One has to drink and drink and drink before one has a good idea of what one really wants. And it's not the same thing as what others want, and so terms that are somewhat vague are used in interesting but unclear ways to pass along what may be untranslateable preferences.

 

[Erik]

I'm a little confused here...

Is the main point of this thread?

Buy plantation teas to age.
Buy arbor tea to drink now.

 

[shah8]

The idea is...

You don't really want to drink plantation big leaf tea. However, Good News! It gets better if it sat in the corner for a little while.

Arbor tea is significantly less likely to kill your tummy and cross your eyes. So there's a good chance you'll enjoy it as much as you would a proper green, oolong, whathaveyou.

at least that was what the quoted comment in the OP intended to convey. I think.

 

[netsurfr]

thanks shah8. I think you have conveyed the intent of the thread perfectly. However, for teas other than old arbor tree teas, I think I still have much to learn about the aging potential of a particular bush tree blend.

 

[shah8]

Same here.

1) Whether it's worth it at all to get plantation, if you are already buying arbor.

2) I think we have a very poor common vocabulary for assessing what is good leaf and what isn't. There are tons of bad arbor teas too, such that plantation would be better. How the arbor is managed (Xizihao is explicitly advertising its Jingmai tea has better managed arbor leaf than its competitors) and how the plantation is managed are both significant questions. I do think plantation can be just as good as normal arbor, but one has to take significant care in things like fertilization. There is, I think, less than sufficient discussion about visual inspection of dry leaf. There is also *no* discussion of warning signs of poor dry aging other than fading or dried out taste. I could think up more questions, so maybe that's what's need...a list of questions...Might be faster than explaining to each other our personal theories of success or failures.

 

[nickE]

Thanks for the in depth replies Shah, very interesting read!

I tend to agree with you although I'd say I am much less experienced.

 

[shah8]

I think some teas are just much more eager to age than others. Some black teas, like my thing of yunnan gold buds and zhu hai jing ming have been improving quite rapidly, while others are the same and fading. Not sure what tells which black teas to power up in just a year.

Also, I think it's just a really bad idea to drink teas too young in the current year. I also am thinking it's just not worth it to buy samples for anything but the most rough evaluation of a tea. Samples don't tend to be *that* high resolution representative, and it's easy to get a skewed perspective. Reading all these reviews online, I always check the date vs the make, because reviews of current year cakes tends to be more off than reviews after a year or so. The Bangwai for me was a pretty good example...The tea just didn't taste like much when I first got it. If I had been evaluating by samples, I might have thought this wasn't really a very high priority. Maybe, I might have noticed that it had a powerful qi and good throat action, but that sort of thing can be missed. After all, I missed it when I sampled that spiked Yi chan mo the first time--because I was sampling so many other teas. I might have made purchasing priorities that do not satisfy me as much if I hadn't treated, as ouch might say, a cake as a sample. Pure and simple, you need 50+ grams. A nice, solid chunk.