Who here is rockin a Flair?

[headshvr]

3 days ago, I did a 3.5 hour hands on demo comparing the Flair 58LE and Breville Dual Boiler. I went into it ready to lay down on the Flair. That quickly changed…

The workflow on the Flair was tough, and pulling a good shot was even tougher. I was able to dial in the grind but I could not replicate the beauty of the very first shot I pulled on the BDB, which was thick, creamy, and yummy. And I don’t even normally like straight shots.

I left with the BDB for 40% off.

I really wanted the Flair. It was a beautiful piece of industrial art. My heart said Flair, but my head said BDB.

I may pick it up in the not so distant future but there is no way, at least at this point, that I could have used that as my daily driver.

How about you coffee fanatics? Anyone rockin a Flair? Anyone rockin a Flair as your daily driver?

 

[linty1]

Hello! Glad you found one you liked, I have the original Flair and bought the gage and… I forget what else came with it package. Customer service has been great, I’ve needed replacement this and that over the years and they’ve sent free of charge (rubber feet, when they came out with the new and improved distribution shower head thing, new gaskets they’ve sent me for free when I asked nicely even they sell them as an asses etc). I do like my flair a lot, but obviously thats for my experience.

 

[headshvr]

Hello! Glad you found one you liked, I have the original Flair and bought the gage and… I forget what else came with it package. Customer service has been great, I’ve needed replacement this and that over the years and they’ve sent free of charge (rubber feet, when they came out with the new and improved distribution shower head thing, new gaskets they’ve sent me for free when I asked nicely even they sell them as an asses etc). I do like my flair a lot, but obviously thats for my experience.

Respect. Some day I hope to be there too.

 

[Lightcs1776]

I haven't used one, but I regularly visit a coffee forum and they have a good reputation. I have read that they take some practice to get good at pulling shots, but are worth the learning curve.

 

[headshvr]

I haven't used one, but I regularly visit a coffee forum and they have a good reputation. I have read that they take some practice to get good at pulling shots, but are worth the learning curve.

Yes. In the right hands, they are capable of a grand slam in the bottom of the ninth. In the wrong hands, on a full count pitch, it can be nothing but air. Swing and a miss. And after 3 dozen pitches.

I am content for now getting a solid triple down the third base line on the first or second pitch, every time at bat.

Plus the BDB is easily mod-able to allow for manual pressure control (probably manual flow control, to be more precise), along the lines of the Flair or a Slayer (hence the moniker, the “Slayer mod”).

But I do plan on getting a 58 at some point. They are very cool in terms of their industrial design, and while they are capable (in the right hands) of beating most non-lever machines on taste, it’s much more than just the coffee. It’s the process. And the opportunity to gain a better understanding of the science behind things. I get all that.

When I get one, it will be for lazy weekends when I have some time. Not my daily driver. Much respect for those using this as their sole source of coffee on busy weekdays. Legendary respect for those doing this for more than one cup, for more than one person each morning.

 

[Lightcs1776]

Yes. In the right hands, they are capable of a grand slam in the bottom of the ninth. In the wrong hands, on a full count pitch, it can be nothing but air. Swing and a miss. And after 3 dozen pitches.

I am content for now getting a solid triple down the third base line on the first or second pitch, every time at bat.

Plus the BDB is easily mod-able to allow for manual pressure control (probably manual flow control, to be more precise), along the lines of the Flair or a Slayer (hence the moniker, the “Slayer mod”).

But I do plan on getting a 58 at some point. They are very cool in terms of their industrial design, and while they are capable (in the right hands) of beating most non-lever machines on taste, it’s much more than just the coffee. It’s the process. And the opportunity to gain a better understanding of the science behind things. I get all that.

When I get one, it will be for lazy weekends when I have some time. Not my daily driver. Much respect for those using this as their sole source of coffee on busy weekdays. Legendary respect for those doing this for more than one cup, for more than one person each morning.

You can't go wrong with the Breville. It has great reviews and is priced fairly reasonable for a double boiler.

 

[MurderousCrow]

Flair Pro 2 user here. I use mine daily at work. I think you've probably made a good decision. Not because there are any particular faults with the various Flair machines - mine has been faultless, they're mechanically simple and clearly well-designed & engineered. But a good decision because direct lever espresso is tricky, and all Flair units require extra prep and workflow steps that are both crucial and time-critical - as far as making coffee can be anyway which for me is certainly true first thing in the morning .

The Breville DB seems to be a good unit from what I've heard. What grinder are you using?

On the flip side, Flairs and other direct levers are capable of making the most incredible espresso. The ability to intuitively pressure / flow profile with them is key to this, as you can pre-infuse as much or little as you want, and decrease the pressure over the extraction to keep the puck intact and really maximise the good flavours. The range of recipes you can try is massive. Currently having a lot of fun with a lightly roasted honey process Guatemalan single-origin, grinding very fine and pulling over about 45sec. With this grind setting the tamp pressure is all-important as a smidge too much or too little pressure mucks the shot up. But when I get it right (4 times out of 5 or so) it is close to the elusive god shot. But this 'expertise' didn't come easily, and thankfully I can now do a lot of the prep without thinking too hard... Again quite important at daft o'clock in the morning!

Happy coffees and enjoy your setup!

 

[headshvr]

@MurderousCrow I’m using a Varia VS3 grinder. So far, so good. No complaints at all. It’s built like a tank, whisper quiet and has resulted in me tasting notes in beans I never knew existed when using my old Encore grinder. I love my Varia VS3 for AeroPress to immersion to Chemex to espresso. It is capable of doing it all. I just hope it holds up to daily duty. That said, it’s so inexpensive that it’s a low pressure risk.

 

[MurderousCrow]

That's awesome. I heard rumours of this grinder some time ago but I've not been on any of the coffee forums or FB groups for a good few months, wasn't aware it had hit the market. It's really exciting that quality lower-priced products like this are being launched, the grinder sounds great.

With all this talk of tasting notes and Chemex (one marker of a real coffee fanatic IMO) it sounds like you're a lever fiend in waiting my brother. Come and join the fold haha.

 

[headshvr]

That's awesome. I heard rumours of this grinder some time ago but I've not been on any of the coffee forums or FB groups for a good few months, wasn't aware it had hit the market. It's really exciting that quality lower-priced products like this are being launched, the grinder sounds great.

With all this talk of tasting notes and Chemex (one marker of a real coffee fanatic IMO) it sounds like you're a lever fiend in waiting my brother. Come and join the fold haha.

I am indeed. I think though that learning the espresso basics will be easier on the BDB. I did a 3.5 hour hands on workshop at my local bespoke coffee outlet (maybe the best in Canada) the Saturday I bough the BDB. We had so much fun using all my products (Stagg Pro Studio kettle, Timemore Black Mirror Nano timer, Varia VS3 grinder), and made and drank espresso for hours, comparing the workflow between the Flair 58LE and the BDB. I just didn’t think I would be able to manage the Flair half asleep in the mornings. It was tough enough wide awake that Saturday afternoon.

I threw down on the BDB with the intention of purchasing the Flair in a few months.

The Flair is a beautiful industrial work of art. It’s what James Bond would own. I love it. I just didn’t think I was quite ready for it yet.

 

[MurderousCrow]

I am indeed. I think though that learning the espresso basics will be easier on the BDB. I did a 3.5 hour hands on workshop at my local bespoke coffee outlet (maybe the best in Canada) the Saturday I bough the BDB. We had so much fun using all my products (Stagg Pro Studio kettle, Timemore Black Mirror Nano timer, Varia VS3 grinder), and made and drank espresso for hours, comparing the workflow between the Flair 58LE and the BDB. I just didn’t think I would be able to manage the Flair half asleep in the mornings. It was tough enough wide awake that Saturday afternoon.

I threw down on the BDB with the intention of purchasing the Flair in a few months.

The Flair is a beautiful industrial work of art. It’s what James Bond would own. I love it. I just didn’t think I was quite ready for it yet.

Yes. Everyone is different, but I think I'm similar to you: if I'd been presented with a lever in my first few years of making espresso, especially back then when info was scarce and methodology wasn't well-defined, I would have probably thrown the towel in. But I don't think you need years of using a pump machine before making that transition, just enough time that you can easily navigate your process, and understand things like how grind size, distribution, tamp, pre-infusion, temperature and pressure affect the extraction. Once you are getting nice even extractions consistently, you can modify the other parameters and this is where a lever comes in; it's capable of so much more than a pump machine.

 

[APBinNCA]

I guess I have had my 58 for about a year or so now. I am finally upgrading to a VST basket and Barista hustle tamper. I actually forgot that I could have probably gotten a replacement base to fit the VST for my older tamper. I have been using the included tamper, it's overdue for an upgrade and I didn't buy an expensive tamper. Pretty happy about that. Now the VST basket... I hope I like the one I got because I don't want to have order more junk so I can throw another one in. For somebody who has their workflow dialled in, these are the most important upgrades that I can of.

 

[headshvr]

I guess I have had my 58 for about a year or so now. I am finally upgrading to a VST basket and Barista hustle tamper. I actually forgot that I could have probably gotten a replacement base to fit the VST for my older tamper. I have been using the included tamper, it's overdue for an upgrade and I didn't buy an expensive tamper. Pretty happy about that. Now the VST basket... I hope I like the one I got because I don't want to have order more junk so I can throw another one in. For somebody who has their workflow dialled in, these are the most important upgrades that I can of.

Not entirely responsive to your post but workflow-wise, among other things, I found dealing with the top screen when disposing of the puck to be an added aggravation.

And yes - I appreciate that I can be a bit of a delicate flower at times…

 

[APBinNCA]

Among other things, I found dealing with the top screen when disposing of the puck to be an added aggravation.

I know technically you are supposed to get the grounds into the basket in like 5 seconds or they are stale, but I leave the old puck in to keep everything hot, grind, shake the disc out and rinse it, bang out the puck, dry wipe and finally add my grounds. I know they have changed the whole chamber now, not buying, because people were buying the disk anyway. I suppose everything about my setup takes more time compared to a commercial setup that I have used so the screen is just one more minor thing. If I was even using an electric grinder, I might find it annoying. I have thought about buying a second portafilter handle and almost did with the recent order mentioned above.

 

[MurderousCrow]

I know technically you are supposed to get the grounds into the basket in like 5 seconds or they are stale, but I leave the old puck in to keep everything hot, grind, shake the disc out and rinse it, bang out the puck, dry wipe and finally add my grounds. I know they have changed the whole chamber now, not buying, because people were buying the disk anyway. I suppose everything about my setup takes more time compared to a commercial setup that I have used so the screen is just one more minor thing. If I was even using an electric grinder, I might find it annoying. I have thought about buying a second portafilter handle and almost did with the recent order mentioned above.

I think the idea of getting the grinds in really fast is a bit woo anyway.

I experimented with this a few years ago and saw a slight difference in pour times (faster) after grinds had been left longer than 2min, and a marked difference after being ground more than 10min previous. This was with light-roasted, washed beans. I'm not completely sure why we see faster pour times when leaving the ground beans out, it could simply be drying: beans are pretty dry after being roasted, but still have a moisture content of around 2%. Oxidation is another candidate. Likely to be a combination of both. I did about 4 sets of measurement so it wasn't massively scientific: neither was I measuring ambient temp and relative humidity . I just wanted to see how fast I needed to be and whether I could get away with grinding for two cups in one go, the grinder I had at the time was very fiddly for single-dosing.

Regardless I think your process sounds fine.

 

[APBinNCA]

I experimented with this a few years ago and saw a slight difference in pour times

Thanks for sharing that! I actually forgot about a place that I worked that would some times pre-grind coffee and expect me to make espresso out of it.

I think the thing with any process is to avoid both having to think about too much like a receipt and to avoid going back and forth, streamline everything. Total time is irrelevant outside a commercial operation.

 

[linty1]

It def took a while to learn how to use it, and the factors that affect pulling a shot, but I'm glad I went with an all manual. I do like my flair (it's a flair "classic") although there are a few things I would change, like the pull lever could be a little gripier, but a towel helps that. I can't/don't think I can upgrade to a VST basket though, the basket is incorporated into the head as one unit... the basket doesn't come out.

 

[MurderousCrow]

It def took a while to learn how to use it, and the factors that affect pulling a shot, but I'm glad I went with an all manual. I do like my flair (it's a flair "classic") although there are a few things I would change, like the pull lever could be a little gripier, but a towel helps that. I can't/don't think I can upgrade to a VST basket though, the basket is incorporated into the head as one unit... the basket doesn't come out.

I'm pretty sure you can add a Pro 2 brew head to your classic. Would be worth double checking first of course. As far as I know, no-one does aftermarket baskets for the non-58mm Flair products, but when the Pro 2 type brew head already works so well, any benefits would be marginal.

 

[linty1]

I'm pretty sure you can add a Pro 2 brew head to your classic. Would be worth double checking first of course. As far as I know, no-one does aftermarket baskets for the non-58mm Flair products, but when the Pro 2 type brew head already works so well, any benefits would be marginal.

Is it worth the upgrade to a pro2 brew head? I've been using the classic brew head and its been going pretty good..

 

[Ckmaui]

Not drinking coffee anymore but Ok with that

I used to be pretty hardcore into espresso my main machine was a Elektra A3 and I also had a Cafelat Robot for manual fun and then for manual grinder got a comandante

I LOVED the Robot thought it made a lot better shot than the flair and was easy to use etc... like shaving YMMV ahhahahaha

but something about all manual I ended up liking more and with my robot pulling insane good shots I used that all the time and the little hand grinder over my Mazzer even
was it better than the Elektra NO but was it more fun OH YEAH !!!! And again like our shaving vs electric just something about it


but if one is looking at the flair check out the robot its also got a lot of history with its Homage to the original

still have my Pasquini livia in the garage the circuit board went out was my backup but need to sell that off do miss the ritual and love of the espresso but health is better now so had a good run till my late 50s drinking espresso hahaahahha
and shaving has taken over that morning ritual anyway so all good