Which TI razor for a beginer

[Hyperborean]

Hello,
not long ago I bought a DOVO special (see my previous post) but it had slightly frowned edge and I returned it back to the seller.
I want to buy another razor and somehow I more drawn toward TI razors, although I read that their assembly is like **** which is not good thing to hear.

But supposedly they provide superior shave, which is the more important thing than sole appearance of the razor. Why would I want to shave with a straight razor if I achieved lesser result than with wilkinson multiple bladeded disposable cartridge razor anyway?

I think I may I have fairly tough beard, not really thick, but I think it's on tougher side, the stuble feels rough and sharp and grows relatively quickly.

I have read that extra hollow ground razors may not be the best choice for tough facial hear, but that's just one opinon I read. Since many of TI razors are extra hollow ground I have second thought about getting such razor What do you think? To go TI or not and if yes which model?

Maybe Le Dandy model? But it seems there are at least two versions , this one http://www.exclusiveshavings.com/rakknivar/thiers-issard-le-dandy.html which seems rather good and this one http://www.dick.biz/dick/product/709014/detail.jsf which seems to be lesser quality judging by the photo.

Or is it better I go with Wolf and Ram model which are more expensive ? Or maybe Fox and Rooster which can be seen here at RASURPUR http://www.rasurpur.de/english/shop/straights/thiers/newforge/newforge.html

Lastly there is also Le Grelot model, also from Rasurpur http://www.rasurpur.de/english/shop/straights/grelspctwo/assets/GREL1N.jpg

What do you recommend? Which is better option? I would like that there is no compromise regarding shave and I don't care that much for gold etching or wooden scales, but I don't like it's poorly put together. Thanks

 

[Chimensch]

I like the LeGrelot 3/4 to full hollow so much that I bought a 7-day set of them and also two that I travel with. The quater (wedge) grind LeGrelot from rasurpur also has a huge following. I think the quality control problems that TI had are old news and a good dealer, such as Steve Dempster at Thiers-Issard.co.uk or Martin at www.rasurpur.de will protect you from those types of problems.

 

[Kees]

TI's generally are harder to hone so for a beginner they aren't the ideal razors. A friend of mine who has had a hard time learning how to hone is very enthusiastic about Revisors. Revisor is back in business at very reasonable prices.

http://www.revisor-solingen.de/html/rasiermesser.html

 

[Hyperborean]

Thanks for reply. So it seems it would be better to order from a razor spe......t dealer like those two Chimensch mentioned than some other retailer.
Kees, I don't worry about honing that much. I worry about getting somehow flawed product again. I am fairly proficient at knife sharpening and I also bought (at the same time as that DOVO razor) Naniwa SS 8000 grit (I haven't used it yet, not even tried, no time). I also have Shapton glass stone 500 grit (too rough for razor probably) and 2000 grit, and Cerax 1000/3000 combination stone so I guess I have the tools for the job. Anyway I will look more closely at Revisor razors.

to gugi: so TI are stiffer? reading some post from a poster named joel I got impression that TI are flexible and that DOVO are stiffer. but then I also remembered that he posted quite a few reviews regardind DOVO razors (mainly favorable), also regarding DOVO special, and the bell start ringing.

The problem is that here there is nobody selling straight razor nor using them probably... my grandfather was the only person I had known that had had straight razors and had been using straight razor ...i asked my grandmother today if she still has his straight razors...

 

[Doc4]

I think I may I have fairly tough beard, not really thick, but I think it's on tougher side, the stuble feels rough and sharp and grows relatively quickly.

I have read that extra hollow ground razors may not be the best choice for tough facial hear, but that's just one opinon I read. Since many of TI razors are extra hollow ground I have second thought about getting such razor What do you think? To go TI or not and if yes which model?

Lastly there is also Le Grelot model, also from Rasurpur http://www.rasurpur.de/english/shop/straights/grelspctwo/assets/GREL1N.jpg

It's a general opinion among many who shave with straights that the thicker blades (like the grelot 1/4 grind) are better at plowing through really thick or tough beards.

It's probably more accurate to say that any high quality and well honed razor in the hands of a skilled wetshaver will do an equally superb job, but a heavier/thicker razor will do a better job of masking the technical failings of a shaver who is still learning what he is doing.

(note that there are the 1/4 grind 'thick' grelots and the 3/4 grind 'thin' grelots ... each super, but different, so order carefully if that is where you look ... )

I worry about getting somehow flawed product again.

I am fairly proficient at knife sharpening and I also bought (at the same time as that DOVO razor) Naniwa SS 8000 grit (I haven't used it yet, not even tried, no time). I also have Shapton glass stone 500 grit (too rough for razor probably) and 2000 grit, and Cerax 1000/3000 combination stone so I guess I have the tools for the job. Anyway I will look more closely at Revisor razors.

Martin at rasurpur hones all the razors he sells, so while you might not care one way or the other about the honing itself, that suggests to me that he gets a pretty good look at the razor up close, and can make sure the razor isn't defective.

You are right that 500 grit is too coarse for a razor. Look in the 'honing' secton for lots of info on honing ... you may want to get a finishing stone that is finer than 8000, but you will probably get a decent (but not silky smooth) edge with 8000.

 

[DunEdinRanger]

Those revisors sure do look nice.

 

[professorchaos]

I agree with all who have said that heavier grinds are not necessarily better for shaving tough beards. In the right hands, a properly honed hollow grind can shave every bit as well as a quarter hollow or wedge. Takes a little skill though. The heavier grinds do make it easier, which sets a beginner up for success.

So I say get the one you like most as long as it comes "shave ready." Now for something possibly controversial: I would recommend something in 6/8. If you end up liking larger razors, it will likely be the smallest size you like. And if you like smaller razors, it will not be too large.

 

[Kees]

Kees, I don't worry about honing that much. I worry about getting somehow flawed product again. I am fairly proficient at knife sharpening and I also bought (at the same time as that DOVO razor) Naniwa SS 8000 grit (I haven't used it yet, not even tried, no time). I also have Shapton glass stone 500 grit (too rough for razor probably) and 2000 grit, and Cerax 1000/3000 combination stone so I guess I have the tools for the job. Anyway I will look more closely at Revisor razors.

Razor honing is a different trade altogether.

 

[Hawkeye5]

Consider a TI Super Gnome 1/2 hollow in either 6/8ths or 5/8ths. Mine is a fantastic shaver, although one of the older ones and I can't say anything about the new ones. You might also consider a Livi new grind, also a 1/2 hollow, but twice the price of a Super Gnome.
While a sharp full hollow (I use all grinds) works just fine on a thick beard, I do believe their use requires an experienced hand to accomplish the same results as a heavier grind. You perhaps are more likely to have better shaves more quickly with a half hollow (my opinion only) and discover the joys of a full hollow after you have more experience.

 

[Hyperborean]

This is interesting discuession. So the grind shouldn't matter if you are skilled with the razor and if you are beginer you can get there by practice.

I have looked at those Revisor razor and they do look beautiful , sort of retro stylish I suppose. What is the quality and performace of their blades? Kees wrote they are easy to hone, but what is the shave like ? Btw I know there is a difference between razor honing or knife sharpening/honing, like the chisel sharpening/honing is different. In my opinion probably the hardest thing among these is the knife/axe sharpening if you do it by free hand without any jigs or other accessories of course except sharpening stone (remember that except scandinavian and finish knives the knife does not lay flat on its bevel on sharpening surface).

So far I have narrowed my choice on following TI models (Revisor do look nice but are they worth a risk - primarily I want a performer not a collectible item) :

- TI Le Dandy (btw is there any review of Le Dandy here? what do you think of this model? i ) -the seller offered me examination of the product

- Le Grelot from Rasurpur 6/8, 3/4 to full hollow grind ...can anyone tell me what is the lenght of the Le Grelot blade? usual 5/8 razors are approximately 7 cm long...Le Grelot appears larger---


- TI Special Coifeur (http://www.thiers-issard.co.uk/thiers-issardstraightrazors.html) or perhaps Spartacus http://www.thiers-issard.co.uk/spartacusblackplastic.html


Regarding the size, actually in general I like larger blades (for knives for example). That DOVO special 5/8 initially seemed small to me but I think I could get used to such rather small blade

 

[Kees]

My friend is very impressed with them and sold a lot of razors that had given him a hard time. He is a beginner so they may not be the best razors around but certainly for a newb who wants to get started and not to mess around with hones too long they may be attractive razors.

I never tried one myself so I am only passing on experiences related to me.

BTW: take a good look at their vintage razors as well!

Here's some SRP coverage of the new Revisors: http://www.straightrazorplace.com/forums/show-tell/39502-revisor-here.html

 

[professorchaos]

Hyperborean - of those TIs you mention, I'd recommend the Le Grelot. I have a vintage one which is a very nice razor. Since I am expressing myself, its larger 1/4 hollow cousin is even better. If I could only have one TI, that would be it. Fortunately, I am not known for my restraint.

 

[Hyperborean]

Hyperborean - of those TIs you mention, I'd recommend the Le Grelot. I have a vintage one which is a very nice razor. Since I am expressing myself, its larger 1/4 hollow cousin is even better. If I could only have one TI, that would be it. Fortunately, I am not known for my restraint.

If less than 1/1 grind are easier for starter to achieve best shave with a straight razor that would be reasonable choice but sometimes it's not just cold reason involved in making decisions.What would be advantages and disadvantages of 1/4 grind Le Grelot compared to 3/4 to 1/1 Le Grelot and other full ground razors other than relative ease of shaving? Balance? Which strops easier? (I have a hanging DOVO Prima Rindleder strop). What is the Le Grelot steel like? If I read correctly Le Grelot are made from old blanks while the regular TI are new forgings with better steel I assume. Problem is I like the more angular looks of regular TI razors a bit more. How long does it take to achieve skill with straight razor shaving? Hm now I am really torn between these choices.



ps.: between Le Dandy and Special Coiffeur/Super Gnome, which is regarded more favorably?

 

[Hyperborean]

Not all TI, the LeDandy, which is the one you were asking questions about. I have not used the 'special coiffeur' or 'super gnome' so I don't know how they compare.
What you consider 'best' will probably change quite a bit as you become more experienced. I see many relatively new guys find amazing, razors that I consider mediocre.

I misunderstood your post (you said "razors") regarding stiffnes leading me to wrong conclusions. I saw the razor you sold, it was older model judging by its looks... would Le Dandy be mediocre razor for you or not ?

 

[professorchaos]

If less than 1/1 grind are easier for starter to achieve best shave with a straight razor that would be reasonable choice but sometimes it's not just cold reason involved in making decisions.What would be advantages and disadvantages of 1/4 grind Le Grelot compared to 3/4 to 1/1 Le Grelot and other full ground razors other than relative ease of shaving? Balance? Which strops easier? (I have a hanging DOVO Prima Rindleder strop). What is the Le Grelot steel like? If I read correctly Le Grelot are made from old blanks while the regular TI are new forgings with better steel I assume. Problem is I like the more angular looks of regular TI razors a bit more. How long does it take to achieve skill with straight razor shaving? Hm now I am really torn between these choices.



ps.: between Le Dandy and Special Coiffeur/Super Gnome, which is regarded more favorably?

The primary difference between the two is that 1/4 hollow Le Grelot is a larger, heavier razor than the 3/4 to 1/1. I find that they are both pretty stiff razors. Neither is difficult to strop, both can be a little fickle to hone. But so too can TIs.

I'd agree that TIs are better looking razors than the Le Grelots. Hell, they are better looking than many straights. But the Grelots shave better than the TIs. IMHO, while you'll probably find razors that shave as well as the Le Grelot 1/4 hollow, you won't find many that shave better than it. And it's got a cool thumb notch!

It may seem counter-intuitive, but I (and others) think vintage steel makes for a better shaving straight than modern steel. Don't ask why, though. I cannot account for it.

Reality is, you have to be happy with the razor you get. SRAD is bad enough, it needs no encouragement. If you like the TIs, get one. They do shave very, very well.

Caveat Emptor: The fit and finish on one of my two new production TIs is very sub par. Allegedly, TI has addressed (is addressing?) the quality control concerns. I wouldn't know - I prefer their historic blades. Among other virtues, the fit and finish is much better.

 

[Hyperborean]

I think that at the end it's probably the skill at whatever you are used to which accounts the most. Regarding 1/4 grinds, this one I would have without a hesitation if the price wasn't as steep and if it was available http://www.rasurpur.de/english/shop/straights/thiers/historical/assets/HX-DEC2.jpg . Sometime you just see the product and immediately it draws your attention...but for now I have to settle with something more accessible...

btw what about that basic Fox and Rooster model? what do you say about that one? it looks great though I don't know why do they have to put etching on blade...

 

[professorchaos]

I understand the attraction to that razor...it too shaves quite well .

 

[Hyperborean]

How come fit and finish is that much better on old, historical razors? I think it's better not to go into lenghty debate why is so...but I guess this is nature of modernEditconsumeristic socalled western world...but, I will think thrice now before spending hard earned money on someeditif I pay not so small sum of money I want quality in all regards and nothing less---or edit!!! ofcourse there are always weak edit who accept these now all prevalent lowering of former standards of qualitye edit

 

[Hyperborean]

I don't consider mediocre any of the TI razors that I have trued.

Can you tell me which would be better (providing better, closer shave) razor in your opinon, Le Dandy or Special Coiffeur aka Super gnome ?

 

[Hyperborean]

as far as quality, new, old etc. goes, take a look at the video from the Dovo factory. when you see how one of these razors is created start to finish you may think the price is actually rather low.

there is plenty of razors that are perfect, but most people don't want to pay for what making these costs.

Actually I don't buy this argument, that you have to pay some sky high for "perfect" product. This is typical trick some slimy trader or whatever wants to convince you. It's true that certain blade production phases are quite time consuming especialy if done manualy etc but how come that old razor were produced with greater attention to detail if what says Henry it's true? And those were done even much more by hand and less technology. Ok so if the producer thinks they are worth more than they should make price higher but the quality must be 100%, so that you get what you expect. The product must meet certain reasonable quality expectations, if it does not,they shouldn't be selling them.

p.s.: Like I said I don't want any luxsury like gold etching (any etching at all), some exotic wooden scales and similar crap. So do you still think such plain but "perfectly" made razor should be out of reach for most people?