What would you have done? (Hypothetical Ebay question)

[thunderball]

I know many of you buy and sell on Ebay so I thought I'd throw this out there and see what you thought. I have bought hundreds of items on the Bay over the years (never sold anything) and have generally had good experiences. I ordered an item about 3 months ago from the states and it still hadn't arrived after 3 weeks. Then 4. Then 6. The buyer was very good in his communication and just said that it must be caught up in customs. I called customs and they said they hadn't even seen the package. The buyer asked me to be patient for another few weeks.

In the end the buyer received the package back after about 3 months, plastered with French stickers saying that the recipient did not pick up the package. He sent me pictures of the returned package to prove that he had written my correct address in Japan (which he had). He also agreed that the package looked like it had never entered Japan and he agreed to go to the post office and ask some questions. The post office also agreed that the package must have gone to France for some reason but said that once the package leaves the US they aren't responsible for it so, though they sympathise, they can't do a thing about it.

In the end the buyer asked me to pay shipping again and he resent the package. It arrived in 6 days. After thinking about this situation however I started to wonder where the actual responsibility lies in such situations...he did nothing wrong, I did nothing wrong, and the post office said they did nothing wrong. What do you guys think? Was it up to me to re-pay the postage? Should the seller have paid or at least offered to split the second postage charge? What would you have done as a buyer? As a seller?

Just to be clear, I'm not complaining about this seller at all - he was very good at communicating and kept very careful records and pictures of everything. In hindsight I was just wondering if the right thing for a seller to do would have been to offer to pay partly for shipping the second time. And for those who want to tell me that the moral of the story is to get insured, trackable shipping....I know. I usually do.

Any ideas/input/insults welcome!

 

[johnmrson]

I think that the new shipping should be shared between the buyer and the seller. Technically eBay puts the onus on the seller to make sure the buyer receives the item.

 

[grump]

Happy to see you finally received the package in the end.

These are the instances that deter selling abroad and it is a shame.

When I purchased items from England, France, Australia, Germany, etc., most often than not, I would pay the extra cost to assure I received the items. In The few cases I had not, I assumed the responsibility for lost, stolen, damaged, and the forever lost in customs scenario.

 

[Crixus]

These are the instances that deter selling abroad and it is a shame.

Unfortunately, this is a very true statement. If I ever sold anything, on ebay or B/S/T, it was SPECIFICALLY offered to folks in CONUS only. That makes it tough on our friends around the world to get a fair shake at good items.

The reality is that once it leaves the country, you don't know what's happening. It's out of your hands, it's out of your postal service's hands, it's at the mercy of every shipping/inspection/customs whim imaginable. You can take out global tracking/insurance/etc. at great expense--usually more than what the item is worth.

In the OP's case, if I was the sender, I probably would have offered to split the shipping on this one particular case--just because I do feel that the onus is on the seller to get the item to the buyer. AS SOON AS I DID THAT, I would go into any listings I had for sale and change EVERY ONE to CONUS only.

 

[tomviolence]

If the ad listing covered the contingency of lost shipments or not resposible for overseas shipments, whatever posted would be the rule. Paypal does not cover overseas shipments (I belive- it is not clear on the ebay protection page).

Depending on what is was and how much I wanted it, I would gladly repay the the shipping for it, or if I did not feel it was worth a second risk at international incompetence, I would ask for a full refund - before the 6 weeks were up.

I think the real answer is what the seller listed as shipping policy and weather or not paypal/eBay protection would cover it.

I had a case where the item I bought was a very nice gold floral ABC set at a very good price. The seller had an invalid paypal account, and invalid phone number and email. I had paid within a an hour of the auction closing, but the seller filed a no payment claim (since his account was all wrong and did not get the email/money). Paypal would have refunded my money, (as it was clear to them I paid as per the listing) but I wanted the set, and so I counterclaimed, and the seller was threatened with being banned for violating ebay policies. He straightened out his paypal email and sent the item. I would rather have the item than have the seller banned and have no item, but my money back.

Buyers have a lot of pull now, but if you are out on a limb with an uncovered purchase, paying the second shipping might be the best way to get the item.

 

[Greg1911]

I think that the new shipping should be shared between the buyer and the seller. Technically eBay puts the onus on the seller to make sure the buyer receives the item.

+1 - this seems like the fairest way as neither the buyer or the seller was at fault (but try telling the Post Office they should own up to their mistake)

 

[raisindot]

Probably a split of shipping would have been the right thing, but the onus should have been on you to ask for it at the time. If he didn't agree, I'd simply ask him to refund the entire purchase cost plus the original shipping charges.

I've shipped Ebay stuff I've sold overseas (including an item to Germany that was worth nearly $1,000--I was biting my nails do the nubs every day until I was told it had arrived in perfect shape. Never will do that again!) and never had a problem. I've had stuff shipped to me overseas, and only one did it not arrive, and the seller refunded my money plus shipping no questions asked.

It's all a bit tricky. Heck, things might not even arrive if you ship them via USPS domestically. Anyone can pick up a package from someone's doorstep. The best proof you can have is either delivery confirmation or a registered mail slip if you want to pay all that.

Jeff in Boston

 

[ImaWestie]

Did the buyer purchase insurance?
If the answer is "no" then the onus is on he buyer to come up with the additional postage, or accept a refund for the goods only.

Obviously, insurance should have covered re-sending.

The seller probably should not have accepted (return) delivery of a correctly addressed item which had never made it to the correct country. The postal carrier probably should have negotiated on this instance and simply re-dispatched it given it was marked appropriately.

I guess you weigh up how good a deal it was, if it was that marginal that paying postage twice means it was a bad deal maybe you shouldn't have made it in the first place?

 

[hifigeezer]

As one who sells a lot on Ebay, when I choose the shipper I am taking responsibility for their performance. If I choose a bad shipper I should deal with the hassle. Obviously with foreign post offices we have no choices. That said I can't blame the guy for asking you to pay; he couldn't re-use the box and had to re-pack. I think you are both victims of postal error. In an ideal world the post office would have paid the seller to re-ship but I think you did okay. Hope it wasn't a washing machine...

 

[DSB]

(1) The post office should have re-shipped the package with no additional charges to either party. Is should have gone from the US to Japan. Instead, it went from the US to France. That means the USPS sent it to the wrong destination. The onus was on the seller to take care of the problem through the post office. Therefore, if the seller couldn't work it out through USPS, the seller should have paid to re-post; or

(2) Seller and buyer should have split the cost of re-shipping if scenario one was not going to result in your getting a package.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Just some food for thought here.

I recently shipped a leather jacket from the states to England for some alterations. It ended up being lost for almost a month with no one knowing anything about where it was. The jacket maker ended up talking to his usual postal delivery person & it was in the UK customs depot waiting on some customs charges. I usually do not ship things overseas, but when I do & I have to fillout a customs declaration, I mark the contents as "Gift/present" so as to not incure any fees at the other end. What I ended up doing wrong with the jacket is I ticked the customs box marked gift, but the lady behind the counter at my local post office had ended up checking off another box & I did not catch it.

 

[pz93c]

As a seller, I would have paid to reship.

Glad you ended up with your item.

 

[onimaru55]

The seller probably should not have accepted (return) delivery of a correctly addressed item which had never made it to the correct country. The postal carrier probably should have negotiated on this instance and simply re-dispatched it given it was marked appropriately.

I agree here. A properly addressed parcel should at least find its way to the right country.... eventually. I sent a razor to France from Australia & it initially ended up in South America. It was eventually forwarded to the patient customer but it was registered & insured so I was able to track it.
Yours is clearly a case of the postal system getting it wrong.

 

[thunderball]

Thanks guys for your advice/suggestions/experiences!