What Makes the Razor Sing?

[Dovo1695]

What makes the "buttering burnt toast" sound when shaving? If there is sound, there is vibration, but is it the razor blade or the hair vibrating (both?). My intuition is that it's the blade but I don't have any evidence.

It seems like the variables influencing the vibration are the blade angle (shallower angle is quieter), blade sharpness (sharper is quieter), and the razor head design. It's that last one that interests me the most; we were just having a discussion about it in another thread.

The Great Rigid Blade Experiment

My hypothesis is that "clamping distance" and "free-end distance" play a role. Other variables held constant (same cutting angle, same razor sharpness), I think that razors with smaller clamping distance will be quieter. Here is @ShavingByTheNumbers excellent diagram so you see what I mean by those terms.

So the questions that I have are the following:

1. What is causing the sound: vibration of the blade, the hair, or both?
2. Do the quieter razors have smaller clamping distances?
3. Do the quieter razors have shorter free-end distances?
4. Are quieter shaves more efficient in the sense that they cut hairs with less resistance and therefore less physical force/pressure?
5. Are quieter shaves more comfortable in the sense that they are less prone to cause skin irritation?
6. Are quieter shaves more comfortable in the sense that there is less of sensation of tugging?

Even you don't have a clue about any of the above, but you've got a very quiet razor, or a very loud razor, I'd be interested to know what the razor is. I'd also be interested to know you are a shallow angle shaver, a steep angle shave, or a neutral angle shaver (as defined in the diagram above) as well as what blade you typically use with the razor.

 

[ShavePastor]

I'm not to sure of the actual cause of the noise, however my experiences thus far would lead me to answer "no" to questions 4, 5, & 6.

The reason for that is because of the Parker Variant adjustable razor; which is very audible, yet that seemingly has no negative effect on the shave. The Parker Variant IME is a very smooth shaver that easily achieves irritation free shaves (like most other razors do with proper technique.) And on all my razors I usually ride the cap. Blade preference: GSB, Personna Med Prep, Nacets, Feather.

I personally like audible feedback & haven't yet made the connection that more noise equals an inferior shave. I have other razors that are quieter but I haven't noticed that that equates to a better shave.

Just my .02. Others may have opposite results for them.

 

[rudyt]

GEM SE razors have much thicker blades than DE razors, and these blades do not flex, but can "carry" vibrations much like putting your ear to a train track. The Ever-Ready 1914 and 1924 Shovelhead are two of the loudest razors on the planet. The reason they're so loud is that they have an "echo chamber" above the blade amplifying the sound - like a hi-fi speaker.

 

[Graybeard57]

Wow, we're really deep in the weeds here. I've always thought the vibration producing the sound comes from the blade. I think whiskers are more likely to absorb vibrations than project them. Free end distance, blade exposure, angle? Never considered them. My loudest razors are a '38 Sheraton and a '46-7 Aristocrat. I got the Aristocrat before the Sheraton, and immediately noticed an increase in sound, which I attribute to the lighter, hollow handle. It's replicated in the Sheraton, which has an identical handle. The other two razors I own are a Red Tip and a Fat Boy. While both also have hollow handles, they are considerably heavier than the aforementioned razors, and are quieter than the lighter Aristocrat and Sheraton. That's my take on this.

 

[santamariasteve]

What a fascinating topic. The theories mentioned by Dovo in Post #1 parallel my own notions.

 

[Above The Tie]

The "sing" you notice is caused by the amount of blade exposure designed into the razors head most notably the cap. This exposure is the distance from the edge of the cap to the cutting edge of the blade. Our Above the Tie stainless razors have a larger blade exposure which allows more flex in the blade resulting the the razor "singing". I incorporated this feature into our razors because I believe the additional audible feed back helps the shaver to find and maintain a proper shave angle which results in a better shave.
Some guys really enjoy this quality while some do not value it as highly. So I designed our offer our Windsor razor line with a more conventional blade exposure to provide additional razor differentiation for our customers.
Stan

 

[AimlessWanderer]

In another thread that I started, there was a mix of responses, but there was also an undercurrent of quieter is better. I am of the opinion that all razors talk their own language at their own pitch (all my four talk a different language anyway), and it takes a while when using a new razor to understand what it's saying to you.

I also believe that there is a relatively narrow margin for error on blade angle (subject to how far the blade protrudes) between riding cap and guard and still keeping the blade in contact with the skin. I probably use all of this available margin while riding the contours of my face, with little difference in sound - the sound only changes (to my ear) if I have inadvertantly lifted the blade. This would suggest to me that much (not all) of the sound is the hair itself. Regardless of the origin of the sound, it will still be conveyed through the razor, and amplified or muffled by the design and construction. My Wilkinson Sword Classic, is plastic, but still has it's own voice. There is also potentially an influence of the density of the lather, and thoroughness of the prep. A bad prep will give more resistance and therefore potentially be louder, though again I would suggest this is both hair and razor.

 

[Dovo1695]

The "sing" you notice is caused by the amount of blade exposure designed into the razors head most notably the cap. This exposure is the distance from the edge of the cap to the cutting edge of the blade. Our Above the Tie stainless razors have a larger blade exposure which allows more flex in the blade resulting the the razor "singing". I incorporated this feature into our razors because I believe the additional audible feed back helps the shaver to find and maintain a proper shave angle which results in a better shave.
Some guys really enjoy this quality while some do not value it as highly. So I designed our offer our Windsor razor line with a more conventional blade exposure to provide additional razor differentiation for our customers.
Stan

That's really interesting! It sounds as though as a razor designer, you can tune the razor's "voice" to make more or less sound by increasing or decreasing the "blade exposure". I think what you're calling "blade exposure" is what I'm calling "free-end distance" in the diagram in post 1. It sounds like increasing that really does increase the sound as I suspected. Thanks!

 

[cwnidog]

OK, I'll be the first to admit ignorance as to why some razors sing and some are virtually silent (questions nos. 1 - 3). I will also say that I have not noticed that quieter razors give a shave that is in any way superior to ones that sing. In fact of my three current favorites two (Merkur Futur and Parker Variant) sing and one (Eclipse Red Ring) is virtually silent. I will say that I do like the feed back that a bit of noise gives.

 

[SpeedyPC]

What makes the razor sing is very easy just listen and this will make sense to you.

 

[Dovo1695]

I wonder what the Excalibur club folks would say. They ask an awful lot of their blades. It would be interesting if the real marathoners among us tend to go for for silence or feedback.

 

[Saxonbowman]

I wonder what the Excalibur club folks would say. They ask an awful lot of their blades. It would be interesting if the real marathoners among us tend to go for for silence or feedback.

On a long blade run you end up using several razors just to keep from getting bored. That said I've heard, and it makes sense, that razors which limit blade flexing tend to make the blade last longer. I had better luck when I avoided razors like the pre-war Tech and NEW Long Comb which have more flex room. On the other hand the Fatboy was a real workhorse for me in my Excalibur run. That razor has a tendency to sing.

 

[rudyt]

I wonder what the Excalibur club folks would say. They ask an awful lot of their blades. It would be interesting if the real marathoners among us tend to go for for silence or feedback.

I'm a Century Club member of the Excalibur group (100+ shaves on a blade) and notice no correlation between performance and sound.

My loudest DE is probably the Wardonia Mk.VI and it shaves great, as does the ultra-rigid and ultra-quiet oval-slot Tech. In my world, sound is just a superficial characteristic.

 

[SpeedyPC]

If you want the loudest shave in your den, I mean the razor singing so loud is get yourself a Standard Razor trust me this razor will bring music to your ears so loud.........I mean really loud, lucky me I can't hear a darn thing with this razor because I'm so deaf... My brother keeps telling me why is my Standard Razor shaving so loud, I thought he was pulling my leg and told me is no joke at all this Standard Razor is LOUD while shaving.

 

[TheKman]

... notice no correlation between performance and sound.

Ditto.

 

[imcnok]

my above the tie kronos has nice razor scraping sound...thats one of my favorite things about it.

 

[Big Nickita]

I would like to see the nature of the hair itself examined. I think that would be the biggest single factor. If you place your arm against your face, and shave your arm. It's quiet in comparison. The hairs are longer, thinner, and less wiry.

The sound changes as you shave areas of your face that are less dense, or have milder hair.

There would probably by instrumentation that could measure vibration in the razor head. A red hair'd person v a fair hair'd person v a dark hair'd person.

I also wonder if the style of comb would have an effect of sound dampening. I know the maggards open comb is louder than the R41 for instance. Then there are closed combs, and closed combs with quite open internals. Like the Parker variant. Are the cap top (futur) razors quieter? If so, maybe sound is also being made on the opposite side from the clamping point/exposed area. Are the open ends in the symmetrical centre of the razor acting like speaker cones?

Another major factor would be blade tension. Cutting a loose piano string makes nearly no sound. Cutting a tight one obviously makes a decent twang. Cutting a very tight one can be extremely audible. So support, or bearing upon the blade on the inner side of the clamping point would have an effect on resonance also.

So from a physics standpoint. Sound is energy/an audible wave of pressure. Where is the energy that makes the noise coming from.

Great question.

 

[Peter's coin]

My most quiet razor is the Wunderbar. I don’t hear a thing, and with a slick lather can hardly tell it’s working, but it sure works well. I grab a Fatboy when I want feedback.

 

[gsurko]

I like to think it's the whiskers screaming for their life.

 

[BigJ]

I like to think it's the whiskers screaming for their life.

+1! Great thread!