Upland Hunting Newbie

[jasigler]

I was hoping that some of you experienced hunters and gun owners could answer a couple of questions for me. I'm going pheasant hunting with a few friends this year and it will be my first time hunting. I will be borrowing a shotgun this time, but I'd like to own one in the near future. It MUST be over/under (pumps and autos don't seem very sporting), and I want to be able to take it hunting one day, and to the trap range the next. Those are the only requirements.

That having been said, my questions are as follows:

1. What gauge would suit my requirements, or does it matter? What are the advantages/drawbacks?
2. Because of my sub-thousand dollar price, are there manufacturers to avoid?
3. Some people choke the top and bottom barrels differently. Is that a good idea?
4. Should I be looking at local gun stores, or big chains like Cabela's and Bass Pro?

I've been looking online for these answers, but it usually winds up with a 200-page argument. I know you gents on B&B are a bit more civilized, so thanks in advance for your help!

 

[PugslyCat]

Don't worry about a pump action gun not being very sporting. You are normally required to install a plug in the gun so that it can only hold a limited number of shells when hunting.
1. A 12 gauge has a lot going for it due to nearly universal availability of ammunition in great variety.
2. Can't help you here as I don't shop double barrel shotguns, just pumps.
3. I believe the idea is to have a open or modified choke for your first shot and a tighter choke for your second. The idea is that the bird will flee and be further away on the second shot, so making the second shot with the tighter choke keeps the pattern tighter over a longer distance.
4. These days you pretty much have to shop everywhere to find anything if you are at all selective. I get the best advice from my local gun shop guy, but he just isn't able to get much in these days.

 

[fast14riot]

I like 12 guage for the larger shot pattern. Even big slow birds like pheasants can sneak through a hole in the pattern.

As said, don't feel unsporting with a pump, most all places limit you to 3 rounds anyways. Besides, a double barrel can follow up a shot faster than a pump.

I would not choke the barrels differently until you're comfortable with how the gun shoots.

Do some shopping around, deals are everywhere. Also, be sure to check manufacturers sites for rebates and such.


-Xander

 

[Capt]

I was hoping that some of you experienced hunters and gun owners could answer a couple of questions for me. I'm going pheasant hunting with a few friends this year and it will be my first time hunting. I will be borrowing a shotgun this time, but I'd like to own one in the near future. It MUST be over/under (pumps and autos don't seem very sporting), and I want to be able to take it hunting one day, and to the trap range the next. Those are the only requirements.

That having been said, my questions are as follows:

1. What gauge would suit my requirements, or does it matter? What are the advantages/drawbacks?
For wild pheasant, 12ga is a good choice. There are some pretty heavy rounds for a 20ga that can handle a wild rooster too. Chukar, grouse, and woodcock can be effectively taken with a 20ga. My SxS of choice is a 28ga
2. Because of my sub-thousand dollar price, are there manufacturers to avoid?
Check the local gun shops. Throw the gun up and make sure it fits. Fit is most important. My wife owns and shoots several CZ shotguns, her favorite is the Ringneck in 20ga. Most CZ's are sub 1200
3. Some people choke the top and bottom barrels differently. Is that a good idea?
It is a great idea. Because if you miss the first shot, having a tighter choke on the 2nd barrel matters because the target will now be farther away.
4. Should I be looking at local gun stores, or big chains like Cabela's and Bass Pro?
I am not against big box shopping for shotguns, but check out any local shops in your area. They may have several brands your big box doesn't.

I've been looking online for these answers, but it usually winds up with a 200-page argument. I know you gents on B&B are a bit more civilized, so thanks in advance for your help!

I have been upland hunting seriously for quite a while. I take 45 days off of work between Sept 15th-Nov 14th to grouse and woodcock hunt all over Michigan. I hunt with my 7 dogs, 5 of which compete in dog trials. Some have even competed at the national level. Shotguns, bird hunting, dogs and dog training I take seriously. Shaving is a sport to me.

If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

 

[Mr Bob]

I don't think there is anything wrong with using a pump or a semi-auto for pheasant. You can simply limit yourself to two or three cartridges. Pump and semi-auto though come with two disadvantage to O/U and SxS:

A) You won't be able to reload as fast (with practice, you can reload an O/U and SxS very fast). You'll rarely have time for a third shot, but it can happen.

B) You only have once choice of choke. If you flush the bird at 20 yards, you might get a shot at 25 or 30, with a follow up shot several yards farther out. A double barrel give you two choke choices. (Personally, I think going full/full or IM/full for pheasant is the way to go, but that's an individual choice).

For upland birds, the biggest consideration, in my opinion, is weight. It may not be as important at a club or farm, but if you hunt in the field, weight becomes a big factor after 6 or 7 hours through tall grass and forest. I use a 6 pound 20 gauge SxS for grouse. It's light enough to carry in a ready position for several hours a day. An 8 to 10 pound gun would become too cumbersome after a few hours.

1) A 12 gauge would be a fine all-around shotgun. It will be suitable for pheasant, and it'll work for trap, skeet, and sporting clays. Barrel length will effect the speed at which the gun points, but with practice, most any length, 26" through 32" will work (well, 32" on skeet is rough).

2) I can't name specific manufacturers to avoid due to general quality issues. I do know that in the past few years, some new players to the double barrel market have appeared. Some looked like good deals, and others were overpriced for the quality and build they offered (Ruger Red Label comes to mind).

If you are open to buying used, you will have many more options. When buying a gun, shoulder them as you would in the field. Consider only ones that "naturally" come to position on your shoulder and bring your eyes straight across the rib. It will not fall into place perfectly your first time, but at the least, it should not feel awkward. Bring an experienced shooter with you to help.

With used, make sure the action locks up tight and that the inside of the barrels are free of scuffs or scratches to the finish. Check for cracks in the stock. Also, get permission to dry fire the gun (helps to bring dummy rounds). Make sure that the first trigger pull enables the second barrel, or that both triggers work on double trigger models. Check the saftey for excessive wiggle or slop. Make sure the barrel selector works. Ensure the locking lever is centered.

3) Choke selection is completely up to you. You'll need to get some range time with your shotgun to find what works for you and your gun. Always pattern your gun with your chokes to know where your gun is shooting - you will need to adjust your sighting, and possibly choke choice, to accommodate how your gun shoots. Pattern with the same ammo you intend to hunt with. Lead shot will pattern differently from steel or non-toxic shot. As a starting point, I'd say Mod/IC for close flush work (clubs and farms), and Mod/Full for wild flush (field birds... smart cookies).

4) Look at both and compare prices. Generally though, if you are looking at used, smaller local stores will likely have better prices. The box stores can usually do better on new gun pricing.

If you'll be using dogs, they will likely be well trained. Be sure someone trains you how to work with the dogs, for both the pleasure and safety of the dogs. The dogs love the hunt. When a person does something to spook a bird or fails to follow the dogs advice when they should have, you'll see the dogs look at each other, as if saying, "stupid human".

Be sure to practice with trap and skeet. Better yet, if you have a sporting clays range nearby, this would be the best way to get yourself ready for birds.

 

[Mick]

If you are going to shoot trap as wll as hunt you are pretty much talking 12 ga.

save your $$$ and get a nice multi-barrel Browning supreposed set. It is money well "invested" when you tire of it you can sell it for what you paid or more.

 

[ctr]

My recommendation is to buy used until you develop a feel for what you like. Pump and auto are just as sporting, only load 2 shells at a time. Most hunters I know like to see folks with an over under or double because we can see your action at a glance.

My advice is to practice, practice, practice. It's a sport but birds should not be cripples because you haven't learned to shoot yet. Most important is safety. Learn the three rules of gun safety and drill them into up your head. Know where all members of your party are at all times, the guides, and the dogs. Never, ever take a shot over a dogs head, and don't be afraid to pass up on a shot if you think it's not safe or you are unprepared because the bird does something unexpected.

Have fun fun and enjoy the best hunting there is!

 

[Capt]

My recommendation is to buy used until you develop a feel for what you like. Pump and auto are just as sporting, only load 2 shells at a time. Most hunters I know like to see folks with an over under or double because we can see your action at a glance.

My advice is to practice, practice, practice. It's a sport but birds should not be cripples because you haven't learned to shoot yet. Most important is safety. Learn the three rules of gun safety and drill them into up your head. Know where all members of your party are at all times, the guides, and the dogs. Never, ever take a shot over a dogs head, and don't be afraid to pass up on a shot if you think it's not safe or you are unprepared because the bird does something unexpected.

Have fun fun and enjoy the best hunting there is!

Great info. Most guides (and myself) tell shooters not to shoot at a bird until you see daylight between the dogs head and the bird. Meaning, it must be high enough in the air to eliminate a possibility of peppering the dogs.

 

[JTillman]

I know there has been a lot of talk on here about 12 gauges, but I would not rule out a 20 gauge. I've been hunting my entire life, and I use a 20 for everything but turkeys, geese, and sandhill cranes (and I still use a 20 occasionally for turkeys when I will be walking a lot). There are advantages for both 20 gauges and 12 gauges, I just find that I enjoy shooting a 20 much more. The advantages for a 12 are the amount of pellets in the shell, a slight advantage in knockdown power, and the distance the round will travel. All of these can be overcome if you practice shooting a lot and are selective with your chokes. The advantages for a 20 are the overall weight is usually less and the kick is a lot less. I enjoy shooting a 20 because it forces me to make smart shots and makes me practice to overcome the smaller amount of pellets in the shell. Both are great guns and will serve you well! I just wanted to make sure someone stood up for the 20!

 

[jasigler]

Awesome information, guys! Thanks a lot for the input!

 

[Acmemfg]

Plugging a magazine to limit the number of rounds in a shotgun is usually a "requirement" when hunting migratory birds(like ducks). If you are concerned about a pump gun not being "sporting", don't worry. Odds are if you don't bring the bird down with the first 2 shots, by the time you chamber the third, it will be pretty much out of range anyway. SxS and O/U shotguns are almost always the upper crust of sporting shotguns, unless you pick up a Turkish or other foreign make. I'm a huge Browning fan. My Citori lists for about $2,400. Conversely my Browning BPS (pump action) I bought new for less than $500; I would take either on bird hunt and Im sure either would do fine

 

[ctr]

I know there has been a lot of talk on here about 12 gauges, but I would not rule out a 20 gauge. I've been hunting my entire life, and I use a 20 for everything but turkeys, geese, and sandhill cranes (and I still use a 20 occasionally for turkeys when I will be walking a lot). There are advantages for both 20 gauges and 12 gauges, I just find that I enjoy shooting a 20 much more. The advantages for a 12 are the amount of pellets in the shell, a slight advantage in knockdown power, and the distance the round will travel. All of these can be overcome if you practice shooting a lot and are selective with your chokes. The advantages for a 20 are the overall weight is usually less and the kick is a lot less. I enjoy shooting a 20 because it forces me to make smart shots and makes me practice to overcome the smaller amount of pellets in the shell. Both are great guns and will serve you well! I just wanted to make sure someone stood up for the 20!

I like this. 20 gauge is all I ever take in the field anymore. Sure beats walking all day with a 12! The only time I felt a 12 would have done better is one particular Quail hunt I recall in heavy wind. And I do mean heavy. Made out fine that day anyway.

 

[knlgskr]

A 12 ga is the most versatile in any/all configurations. You can buy or handload shells for a 12 ga that duplicate 16, 20, 28 ga performance but they cannot duplicate a 12 ga. O/U, SxS, 28 inch barrels Improved Cylinder & Modified Chokes plus perhaps a Full. Pump, Autoloader 26 inch barrel fitted for/with flush-fitting (Briley-type) chokes. Weight, around 8 pounds +- makes recoil less noticeable and helps maintain movement i.e. swing when tracking the objective/target. Recoil, some autoloaders make it less noticeable than Pumps & 2-barrels but good recoil pads are available and effective. New/used? Make sure it has not been abused; new to you regardless. If in doubt, have a competent gunsmith examine it. Cost? You will remember poor quality new or used after you have forgotten what you paid for it. Make sure it fits, close your eyes and mount it to your shoulder a number of times in front of a mirror then open your eyes and see where it is pointing and what you are seeing in relation to the barrels.

 

[hawgsquatch]

I think there is nothing "unsporting" in using a semi auto or pump. I hunt both big game and birds with vintage semi autos (Remington model 8 circa 1912 and Browning sweet 16 circa 1921)

I do think it is unsportsmanlike to allow an animal to flop around with a broken wing while a sportsman tries to reload his double with numb fingers in a rocking duck boat.

Anything a 20 gauge will do, a 12 will do better. There is no replacement for displacement. A 12 can be loaded down for certain applications, but a 20 will only ever be a 20.

If you are bent on a double, get a good one like a Beretta or a Browning with removable Briley tubes and you can choke it however you want to.

 

[mswofford]

If you plan on shooting trap in club shoots, anything less than twelve gauge will handicap you greatly. That said, a 20 is easier to carry all day but not by that much. Your sub-thousand dollar requirement is tough; try handling a used Ruger Red Label which is high quality.

 

[petr]

12 ga. You can get a 20 later after your clays scores improve.

First, it must fit you. Go swing lots of guns in many shops and you'll find one that feels right. I'd look for used beretta silver pigeon 12 ga. You'll have to discover what barrel length you like best. Start with 28" if you don't know. IC and MOD if it does not have screw chokes.