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Thinking about venturing into natural stones

Title says it all. I've been honing on a Naniwa synthetic progression for a while and I find the edges seem to sharp. Word on the street is that cotis provide a very smooth shave, so I naturally want to try it. Since I've never even shaved with a edge other than that from a synthetic, I'd like to try shaving with a coti edge honed by someone else first. With that being said, who is a master of the coti that I can send a razor or two to receive a coti edge?

Thanks!
 
send a blade to Scott...his screen name is life2short1971...he'll put the finest coticule edge known to man on any of your blades



Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
 
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Word on the street is that Jnats put a smoother edge while maintaining or exceeding the sharpness of the 12k SS.
I personally don't like the edges I've produced on a 12k ss and don't use it... ever. I always found them to be harsh.

Coticules can provide a great shave but the latest talk about them is that people try numerous stones before finding one that puts an edge on their razor that they truly like. I had to buy 3 before I found mine.

If you're lucky, you might be able to convince someone like Scott or Gary to sell you something that they've already tested and are happy with but I can't speak to that.

I'd invest in a Jnat and nagura progression. You could use your 12k still as a prepolisher for your Jnat. Maybe find someone you trust or respect to put a Jnat edge on a blade for you. Look up Mainaman (Stefan) and see if he's willing to help you out.
 
Any natural stone is a lottery game really, you can pay a lot for a paper weight and you could pay little for a trophy finisher. Synthetics is a science and naturals are more of a love. I would suggest to try not to get caught into the hype of certain brands unless you can afford it. You can get a better chance of finding something you love by buying from someone who tests them first. Once you've been bitten by the natural bug it's hard to stop lol.
 
i'm in the uk and would put a coticule edge on your razor with pleasure , but I am in the uk scott is nearer so i'd say is good to go.. i'm just delving with j nats at the mo keenness is easily reached but i'm just not matching my coticule for smoothness, but i'm not giving up as I no I need more practise
 
I can personally vouch for Scott. I got a Heljestrand from him that had a "maxed-out" coti edge on it & it shaved/shaves wonderfully. Coticules are very enjoyable to use, but can be tricky to figure out sometimes. JNAT's will put a nice, sharp, smooth edge on a razor and at least IME are a little more straightforward to use than coticules (but that's just my experience)...In the end it all comes down to personal preference and YMMV on any natural stone you end up with..

If you're having no luck finding anyone to hone for you, shoot me a PM and I'll be happy to put either a coticule or JNAT edge on your razor(s). I am not a "honemeister" by any stretch of the imagination & usually just hone for myeslf, but I feel confident in my ability to put a shave-ready edge on a razor...
 
If you are getting harsh edges from the Naniwa you're spending way too much time on the finisher and likely not enough around the 4k area.
 
Ahem.......are you forgetting the edge I put on that Genco for you :a30:



~~~you're quite right Jon!...that edge you crafted on my 9/16 1/1 Hollow Genco (Master Barber) was truly 2nd to none, and I need to mention I've never seen HHT5 (after stropping) off anyone's coti edge before nor after yours

Needless to say, anyone seeking a coti edge to try, Jon's yur mon=:)

That said, the reason I often refer Scott to those seeking out an exemplary coticule honed edge....Scott has honed a variety of blades for me and I've only sent that one blade to you. I'm sure you can do a fine job on all types of blades but I have personal experience sending Scott all of my toughest edges (the one's I can't get an edge on to save my life). Scott sends them back lazer sharp and when asked what he did to tune it up, he usually says, "twas no problem"...I don't know if that makes him a wizard or I'm just a coti edge schleper<LOL> And I have not sent Scott just a few blades...couple dozen anyways

To this day I still have not mastered a wedge or a near wedge (admittedly, I've only tried a few). Full hollow, no problem...HHT4 after stropping, no problem, so long as the blade does not have major faults, then I've come across some needing lotsa work and I got them to make the strop sing. Same with 1/2 and a few 1/4 hollows that have come my way, but when I get a tough blade that drives me nuts, it goes to Scott. speaking of which... I have one now, but rather than send it to him...I'm gonna drop by so I can watch the master at work. Scott told me how to work my few wedges but I want some personal tutoring...that is if he'll have me over


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
 
Personally I've found that once you get the hang of a couple of cotis then you'll not have too much problem with any other cotis that you try. I've got a load of la grise and can get grrrrrreat edges of them and sometimes quicker than with certain vintage cotis.
Try naturels, I have and have only ever had one art stone - it's a 600/1000 my bro sent me from Japan and I use it on most of my vintage razors to set the initial bevel after correction. I've been using cotis for the past year and jnats since January and honestly I love their versatility - a coti can do everything after correction as can a jnat and naguras.
An art can only go as far as its grit.
 
~~~you're quite right Jon!...that edge you crafted on my 9/16 1/1 Hollow Genco (Master Barber) was truly 2nd to none, and I need to mention I've never seen HHT5 (after stropping) off anyone's coti edge before nor after yours

Needless to say, anyone seeking a coti edge to try, Jon's yur mon=:)

That said, the reason I often refer Scott to those seeking out an exemplary coticule honed edge....Scott has honed a variety of blades for me and I've only sent that one blade to you. I'm sure you can do a fine job on all types of blades but I have personal experience sending Scott all of my toughest edges (the one's I can't get an edge on to save my life). Scott sends them back lazer sharp and when asked what he did to tune it up, he usually says, "twas no problem"...I don't know if that makes him a wizard or I'm just a coti edge schleper<LOL> And I have not sent Scott just a few blades...couple dozen anyways

To this day I still have not mastered a wedge or a near wedge (admittedly, I've only tried a few). Full hollow, no problem...HHT4 after stropping, no problem, so long as the blade does not have major faults, then I've come across some needing lotsa work and I got them to make the strop sing. Same with 1/2 and a few 1/4 hollows that have come my way, but when I get a tough blade that drives me nuts, it goes to Scott. speaking of which... I have one now, but rather than send it to him...I'm gonna drop by so I can watch the master at work. Scott told me how to work my few wedges but I want some personal tutoring...that is if he'll have me over


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

I would not dream of taking away from Scott's honing abilities. I have shaved with more than one of his edges and they were all superlative! He is also one of the most generous people I have ever know. I tip my hat to him.
 
Lol, only here do you have members "fighting" over doing free honing. Got to love this place. Good show gentlemen.
 
There are a lot of Coti masters. It's hard to pick between them. That said, I'm about as far from a coti master as a coti user can come, and I've had ONE (out of 2-3dozen I'd guess) that I couldn't get a good coticule edge out of. How fast and how easily they got there varied quite a bit (with most falling in the middle and a rare stone at either extreme). That ONE stone happened to be a 12x3" I got on eBay, that my guess is was sold originally as a second or a freak stone (It was at least second hand when I got it, the guy I sold it to couldn't get results with it either, and I'm not sure where it went after that). So I really doubt there's been a sudden influx of bad stones. Really I think people just get frustrated too easily and buy into the "coti's are hard, get a synth" hype, then write off their coti's as having been bad or too difficult.

MUCH more of a crapshoot are random jnats (obviously, you are comparing one breed of stone from maybe a dozen or so veins of the same rock from what, 3-4 mines (including vintages) against any number of stones from any number of mines from 7? veins of each mine? (most of this is a guess, I never understood how to read jnats), and apparently some aren't from veins (not even sure what this means but 330mates listings say not to buy stones that aren't from a vein). Generally with jnats you either buy it as 100% a gamble and risk wasting money (330mate's random $25 stones, the various $50-70 representative picture stones from other sellers), or you buy from a reputable seller who will tell you, this stone right here will do what you want. Then it's just a matter of learning that stone.


While I don't think "harsh" is the correct word to describe a 12k SS edge, I will admit that I can understand why a LOT of people would prefer a Coti edge to one, so I'd definitely agree with op's idea that getting a coti-master to send him a coti edge to try is a smart move. I wouldn't sell the 12k though. Keep it if you decide to get a coticule and try going to it after the coticule (hone on coti, get a good shave, go to naniwa after confirming the coti finish is good), this will rule out what Rick is worried about (the problem with the 12k being insufficient lower grit work).


You may find that (like me) that you prefer dilucot to the naniwa progression anyway.
 
Thanks for the kind words guys! jrward2 send me a pm if you would like me to hone a blade for you. Thanks agin for the kind words everybody. :001_tongu
 
Title says it all. I've been honing on a Naniwa synthetic progression for a while and I find the edges seem to sharp. Word on the street is that cotis provide a very smooth shave, so I naturally want to try it. Since I've never even shaved with a edge other than that from a synthetic, I'd like to try shaving with a coti edge honed by someone else first. With that being said, who is a master of the coti that I can send a razor or two to receive a coti edge?

Thanks!

My guess is that if your synth edges are already too sharp, then a coticule edge will tame them of your own making. Or, you could venture a little bit north and try a black Arkansas stone. Assuming that the black Ark has been sufficiently smoothed, either by sandpaper or the traditional, carbon steel cow-lick, it will take care of even the most keen of 13k Suehiro edges. Which beggars the question: do you want to arrive at a complete natural stone progression? Again, here, the Arks are the way as far as I'm concerned.
 
My guess is that if your synth edges are already too sharp, then a coticule edge will tame them of your own making. Or, you could venture a little bit north and try a black Arkansas stone. Assuming that the black Ark has been sufficiently smoothed, either by sandpaper or the traditional, carbon steel cow-lick, it will take care of even the most keen of 13k Suehiro edges. Which beggars the question: do you want to arrive at a complete natural stone progression? Again, here, the Arks are the way as far as I'm concerned.

1 jnat and a proper nagura progression is all you need other than a 1k. Botan slurry will remove 1k scratches, mine does so incredibly fast.
 
When I say it removes the scratches fast, I don't mean I hone fast. My botan is just a great abrasive stone that does a very quick job of getting rid of 1k scratches.
 
We'll agree to disagree, i'm not willing to spend an hour doing 100+ laps on a zulu or chinese 12k for finishing when I can do about the same for a full nagura progression.
 
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