The MMA Thread

[Mejnoon]

I agree. I was watching it live on my laptop and the image was pretty shaky during the last couple of fights. Because of that, I can't swear by my own round scoring. Can't wait to watch this again with better video.

Heres my take...

Spoiler

I scored the Penn/Edgar fight 48/47 in favor of BJ, with BJ winning the first 3 rounds. I think he won those rounds decisively, but not dominantly. Edgar stole the 4th and 5th. With that said, I'm not terribly upset about the decision...BJ has no one to blame but himself. He can't slough off in the championship rounds and expect to eek out a decision...thats not how a champion fights. If he'd gone after Edgar in those last two rounds he definitely wouldn't have lost, and I think he might have finished...instead he tried to coast, and the hungrier guy took home the strap.

This highlights what I consider BJ's major weakness...if things aren't going exactly his way, he loses focus. Thats why he lost the first GSP fight, the second Hughes fight, and thats why he lost to Edgar.

One other thing I'll point out...the fact that Machida can fight the fight he fought and leave with his belt while BJ can fight the fight he fought and lose his illustrates the need for some more comprehensive, possibly less subjective judging guidelines and for some training for the judges...consistent judging is crucial to the legitimacy of the sport and promotion.

On to the main event...put simply, I've lost all respect for Anderson Silva. The Thales Leites fight was bad...this was just over the top. I am perplexed by the way he fought today, and I hope he's embarrased. He should have been penalized atleast one point, not just warned. I wouldn't have been upset if the judges had scored the fight for Maia just based on aggression in the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds. Dana was clearly incensed about it...apparently he gave Ed Soares the belt and left during the 4th round. I hope he can get through to Anderson...another performance like that and they need to just strip him of his title.

 

[Sullybob]

I haven't watched it but I have read about it on line. Wow is right. I'm looking for it on line right now.

 

[Mejnoon]

Cain didn't knocked out healthy prime Nogueira , he knocked out extremely washed up , half blind Nogueira

Don't get me wrong , I love Nogueira , but he was done before he even joined the UFC .
Go back 4 years ago and watch his OWGP fight against Barnett , even back than you could have already see it's no longer the same Nogueira .
His chin was gone long time ago , so does his recovery , his speed , and reflexes .

Cain beating him isn't nearly as impressive or significant as people makes it .

The tales of Nogueira's decline are largely overblown, and the rumor about his eyesight was just that...a rumor. Has he lost a step? Maybe just barely...he still had enough left to put a pretty good beating on Randy Couture ~7 months ago.

His hand speed and his reflexes were never terribly fast. He's always been the kind of guy that took a beating until he caught an arm or a choke...go back almost 8 years and watch Bob Sapp rag doll him. Both Barnett fights were highly competitive, and Barnett is the kind of fighter who makes most of his opponents look terrible.

After the Mir fight I might have agreed with you, but then he bounced back against Couture...and we've all heard about his health issues going in to the Mir fight.

Even if you were right, and Nog was just a shadow of his former self when he fought Cain, Cain's victory would still be far more impressive than JDS' knockout of Werdum. Werdum's striking is absolutely atrocious.

+1. Noggy was nowhere near his prime when he fought cain!

Noggy can't box either! He eats leather for a livin, took a lot of punches in his fights. Junior boxes in my opinion the best in the heavy's by far! If he had 20-25 pounds on him he would be hard to beat! I wouldn't coun't him out against brock or carwin. i'd pick him to beat carwin, brock that's a tough call!

Gonzaga landed a few on Carwin and stunned him, if it was junior, lights out for carwin.

I like noggy, showed what a great man he is after the cain fight, a great man.

Nog can't box? Somebody better tell Randy Couture.

Both Nogueira's have been boxing longer than they've been training BJJ...they're both very, very good. Who do you think JDS spars with? Rodrigo used to box with the Cuban National team and now with Freddy Roach...he doesn't have the amatuer credentials Rogerio has (2 time Brazilian national champion, selected as an olympic team member), but his skills don't lag very far behind. He's one of the best boxers in the heavyweight division.

I think JDS would have an easier time knocking Brock out than Carwin...I've said it before and I'll say it again, Brock does not protect his chin and its only a matter of time. Couture and Mir both stunned him worse than Gonzaga stunned Carwin, and Gonzaga has heavier strikes than either of them.

 

[SRock]

thing is for his size brock is explosive and he times his tackles well and so far it works for him.

This is true...

So far. It's only a matter of time before he gets into the cage with somebody who has been watching his tapes and has figured out how to time him. Then he gets clocked. I'm curious to see what happens after that.

...but so is this!

Just saw the UFC 112 report...sounded quite 'interesting'. I've gotta go find it now...

They are airing it here tomorrow at 4pm (on the American Forces Network) so I'll catch it then. I already know the results (saw on Twitter about the "biggest upset of 2010" so I had to look).

 

[Kenno]

The tales of Nogueira's decline are largely overblown, and the rumor about his eyesight was just that...a rumor. Has he lost a step? Maybe just barely...he still had enough left to put a pretty good beating on Randy Couture ~7 months ago.

His hand speed and his reflexes were never terribly fast. He's always been the kind of guy that took a beating until he caught an arm or a choke...go back almost 8 years and watch Bob Sapp rag doll him. Both Barnett fights were highly competitive, and Barnett is the kind of fighter who makes most of his opponents look terrible.

After the Mir fight I might have agreed with you, but then he bounced back against Couture...and we've all heard about his health issues going in to the Mir fight.

Even if you were right, and Nog was just a shadow of his former self when he fought Cain, Cain's victory would still be far more impressive than JDS' knockout of Werdum. Werdum's striking is absolutely atrocious.



Nog can't box? Somebody better tell Randy Couture.

Both Nogueira's have been boxing longer than they've been training BJJ...they're both very, very good. Who do you think JDS spars with? Rodrigo used to box with the Cuban National team and now with Freddy Roach...he doesn't have the amatuer credentials Rogerio has (2 time Brazilian national champion, selected as an olympic team member), but his skills don't lag very far behind. He's one of the best boxers in the heavyweight division.

I think JDS would have an easier time knocking Brock out than Carwin...I've said it before and I'll say it again, Brock does not protect his chin and its only a matter of time. Couture and Mir both stunned him worse than Gonzaga stunned Carwin, and Gonzaga has heavier strikes than either of them.

Man Randy's a pensioner with 10 losses and a lightheavy. Really how do you compare someone who's pushin 50? Even Mir has seen his best days.

I don't care who someone trains with, he's not a good boxer. You can't be a very very good boxer if your reflexes and hand speed are not fast and you take a beating to grab an arm? Noggy's boxing just lags behind the Brazillian National team, lmao. Just because your brother is good or JDS trains with him doesn't make Noggy good? Many fighters around the world train with champions, that doesn't make them champions!

Noggy could only get a decision over Werdum were junior ko'd 1 round! Wouldn't say Cain's victory was FAR more impressive, about the same everything considered. Werdum beat Vera and Randy coudn't really beat him? + Randy can't box either!

I don't think Brock was really in any trouble with Mir, plus he was just starting out in ufc!

 

[TimmyBoston]

They are airing it here tomorrow at 4pm (on the American Forces Network) so I'll catch it then. I already know the results (saw on Twitter about the "biggest upset of 2010" so I had to look).

I went to see a local MMA event tonight with some pals. So I missed the UFC event and I found out the results too before I could see it.

One of the big results, I'm kinda pleased with. The other, I somewhat expected and it ticks me off.

 

[SRock]

Heres my take...

Spoiler

I scored the Penn/Edgar fight 48/47 in favor of BJ, with BJ winning the first 3 rounds. I think he won those rounds decisively, but not dominantly. Edgar stole the 4th and 5th. With that said, I'm not terribly upset about the decision...BJ has no one to blame but himself. He can't slough off in the championship rounds and expect to eek out a decision...thats not how a champion fights. If he'd gone after Edgar in those last two rounds he definitely wouldn't have lost, and I think he might have finished...instead he tried to coast, and the hungrier guy took home the strap.

This highlights what I consider BJ's major weakness...if things aren't going exactly his way, he loses focus. Thats why he lost the first GSP fight, the second Hughes fight, and thats why he lost to Edgar.

One other thing I'll point out...the fact that Machida can fight the fight he fought and leave with his belt while BJ can fight the fight he fought and lose his illustrates the need for some more comprehensive, possibly less subjective judging guidelines and for some training for the judges...consistent judging is crucial to the legitimacy of the sport and promotion.

On to the main event...put simply, I've lost all respect for Anderson Silva. The Thales Leites fight was bad...this was just over the top. I am perplexed by the way he fought today, and I hope he's embarrased. He should have been penalized atleast one point, not just warned. I wouldn't have been upset if the judges had scored the fight for Maia just based on aggression in the 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds. Dana was clearly incensed about it...apparently he gave Ed Soares the belt and left during the 4th round. I hope he can get through to Anderson...another performance like that and they need to just strip him of his title.

Man, I can't wait to see this fight. You scored three rounds for BJ yet one of the pro judges scored it 50-45 and the other two scored AT LEAST three rounds for Edgar. I can't wait to see the fight tomorrow so I'll have a better opinion on this.

I went to see a local MMA event tonight with some pals. So I missed the UFC event and I found out the results too before I could see it.

One of the big results, I'm kinda pleased with. The other, I somewhat expected and it ticks me off.

I take it you wanted to see Silva toppled? I heard it was another bizarre snoozer of a performance. Can he really be that good? How about a Fedor/Silva super fight?

 

[The Nid Hog]

I went to see a local MMA event tonight with some pals.

Have you ever gone to any of the Total Fight Challenge events up in Northern Indiana? The used to be pretty good.

 

[Barbash]

BJ looked gassed for the final 2 rounds last night. I had Frankie winning the fight, but no clue how the one judge had him winning all 5 rounds. I thought BJ won the first two rounds and Frankie took 3 through 5.
As for the main event, Silva is a joke! Dana White not only confronted Silva's manager during the fight, but he refused to give Silva the belt after the fight instead he just gave it to Silva's manager and left. The ref even stopped the fight and threatened to take a point from Silva if he kept running around.

 

[xivex]

Yeah the BJ fight was a shocker. I never expected BJ to lose. Give credit to Frankie Edgar though, he did well. His movement was on another level...he seemed impossible to hit. I think BJ got very frustrated trying to connect with him, and I agree with what BJ's corner told him at the beginning of round 4. They said to take him down and quit boxing. He never did. He lost because of it. Had he taken him down, it might have been a different fight for rounds 4-5.

The Anderson Silva fight was crazy! I love Silva, he's probably my favorite fighter, but I dont understand this at all. To me, he was obviously dominating Maia the entire fight, and Maia's face showed it. However, *** was the deal with his running around the ring? It started out with Maia running in round 2-3. Then throughout the 2nd and 3rd rounds Silva toyed with Maia and we were all waiting for him to have that explosive KO finish that everyone felt was surely just around the corner... however it never came!

From the second half of round 3 onwards, Silva ran around the ring like he was avoiding Maia. At first I think he was doing it to show Maia.."hey *** dude, your not gonna fight me, okay I'll show you how I'm not gonna fight you and then see how that feels." It certainly looked like that type of thing to me. Maia was holding his hands up like *** now he wont fight me, and Silva was doing the same thing as if to say hey *** yourself dude, this is what you started. It was absolutely retarded.

Then for the 4th & 5th rounds, Silva just ran. After the fight he said he didn't know what happened, and that he was scared of Maia's power...yeah fricking right. I don't believe that for a second. Thats a bs excuse if I've ever heard one. Silva was never scared of Maia's power. Not ever. So *** was he running for? Beats me...the man is retardedly good, but he puts on some of the strangest performances. He'd be a god if he'd just perform.

Joe Rogan kept saying Silva was tired. He looked tired. He's gassed. Perhaps thats it. Maybe hes so good he doesn't train that hard and doesn't care aobut his cardio because he thinks he can beat everyone. So after 2 rounds he doesn't have anything left in him and he just toys with them, runs around, and coasts to a win? Is that it? *** Silva!

 

[SmoovD]

What a bizarre card. I have never seen anything as strange as Silva's antics. UFC 90 and 97 were bad but that was just plain odd. Two can take the blame in this- the matchmaking was shoddy at best. Why another grappler? But the most of this lies squarely on Silva- he has shown no respect to the sport, the promoters or the public. Does he really have no clue to the amount of money which he is, in part, responsible?

BJ lost the fight but no way was it 50-45. Was Cecil in the house? I saw it 48-47 for Edgar but would have had no problem with BJ winning by the same score. Pulling the aberrant score aside, Frankie still took the fight.

The Hughes/Gracie was another odd decision by the matchmakers. Not the fighters but the timing. Years ago this would have been huge but now it just begs the question of why UFC feels the need to run these side-show fights on the main card. Or at all.

How about the rise of the wrestler in MMA? Davis, Munoz...cool.

 

[Mejnoon]

Man, I can't wait to see this fight. You scored three rounds for BJ yet one of the pro judges scored it 50-45 and the other two scored AT LEAST three rounds for Edgar. I can't wait to see the fight tomorrow so I'll have a better opinion on this.

FWIW the fightmetric scored it just like I did, though 3 was very close.

 

[TimmyBoston]

I take it you wanted to see Silva toppled?

Not at all. But when he's shown that he has zero respect for anyone in his division. It's time for him to move up. His days at 185 should be done. He needs to either move up to 205 or even heavy.

Judging from his performances, he hates people that don't go all out against him. The total disdain which he treated Maia and Leites. Then look at Forrest Griffin, Griffin tried, he got in there and threw with him. Despite being knocked out by a walking away jab and running out of the ring after the fight, Silva defended him as a good fighter and good man, when the crowd was booing him. Forrest earned his respect, the other guys didn't come anywhere close.

Anderson just has to move up, there is nothing left for him at 185. The 185 belt should be vacated and Sonnen and Belfort should fight for it.

 

[Soopercat]

Not at all. But when he's shown that he has zero respect for anyone in his division. It's time for him to move up. His days at 185 should be done. He needs to either move up to 205 or even heavy.

Judging from his performances, he hates people that don't go all out against him. The total disdain which he treated Maia and Leites. Then look at Forrest Griffin, Griffin tried, he got in there and threw with him. Despite being knocked out by a walking away jab and running out of the ring after the fight, Silva defended him as a good fighter and good man, when the crowd was booing him. Forrest earned his respect, the other guys didn't come anywhere close.

Anderson just has to move up, there is nothing left for him at 185. The 185 belt should be vacated and Sonnen and Belfort should fight for it.

+1
He has no respect for anyone who doesn't try to "fight" him. His behavior on the other hand was unprofessional.

BJ on the other hand looked confused. Cu does to Frnakie for his intelligent fight and sticking to his strategy.

Kind regards,

 

[TimmyBoston]

I just watched the Penn/Edgar fight and now I'm watching the Silva/Maia fight.

My hat goes off to Frankie, he fought really, really well. By far the best I've ever seen him, but I don't really he that fight, it was very close and he held his own with BJ better than any lightweight in years, which is an amazing feat in and of itself. I think especially after BJ's total (and well deserved ) destruction of Diego Sanchez, people were shocked to see him get hit all, let alone the one takedown Frankie scored.

Now as for Silva. Good Lord..... That fight was a joke and as unprofessional as Anderson was I really blame Dana White and the matchmakers at the UFC, too. Silva has been trying for quite some time to expand and fights some "crazy" fights, GSP, 205, Heavy, all that stuff. They have to let him do this. I'd rather see him lose to pull crap like that fight. At least Maia tried. But I don't think Silva has any respect for any middleweight in the world.

 

[TimmyBoston]

I take it you wanted to see Silva toppled?

Rob, after seeing the Silva fight in it's entirety. I take back earlier statement, I wish Silva had lost that fight. Had I been a judge I would have gone back and changed my scorecard on rounds 3 after rounds 4 and 5 and given Maia the victory. I have no idea what he was thinking in rounds 4 and 5. It was just shameful.

 

[SmoovD]

Unless the next card with Anderson is really stacked I wouldn't be surprised if the PPV $ are down. I wouldn't waste $50 on it. Unless they really challenge him with a good match up.

 

[TimmyBoston]

Unless the next card with Anderson is really stacked I wouldn't be surprised if the PPV $ are down. I wouldn't waste $50 on it. Unless they really challenge him with a good match up.

I agree.

Here's some of Dana White's thoughts.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/White-Calls-Silva-Maia-a-Disgrace-23782

 

[TimmyBoston]

What do you guys think is next for BJ Penn? Do you think he'll still go up to 170 and leave 155 behind or stay there and fight his way back up to the belt?

To me the next 2 obvious challengers at 155 are Kenny Florian and Gray Maynard.

 

[Mejnoon]

Rob, after seeing the Silva fight in it's entirety. I take back earlier statement, I wish Silva had lost that fight. Had I been a judge I would have gone back and changed my scorecard on rounds 3 after rounds 4 and 5 and given Maia the victory. I have no idea what he was thinking in rounds 4 and 5. It was just shameful.

Thats exactly what I thought when I was watching it...I hope they give Maia the decision just based on aggression in those last 3 rounds. He knew he was dramatically outclassed on his feet (and had a broken nose from the looks of it) and he still stepped in the pocket and threw, atleast a little bit...Silva knew he was vastly superior, and he did NOTHING. He didn't deserve to win.

What do you guys think is next for BJ Penn? Do you think he'll still go up to 170 and leave 155 behind or stay there and fight his way back up to the belt?

To me the next 2 obvious challengers at 155 are Kenny Florian and Gray Maynard.

I think he'll get a rematch with Edgar before either fights anyone else...IMO thats the right thing to do when a champ loses his belt due to a close decision. I hope he keeps his mouth shut after this and gets hungry again...a hungry BJ Penn is amazing to watch.