Both of your comments sound pretty much like what I'd expect from this match up. I'm loading the vid now. I have to watch as a fan. I'll check back after watching the fight.
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- Thread starter thunderball
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Both of your comments sound pretty much like what I'd expect from this match up. I'm loading the vid now. I have to watch as a fan. I'll check back after watching the fight.
Well, I saw precisely what I expected knowing what I do about these two. Kimbo is a street fighter and he fights like a street fighter. He has zero wrestling/grappling skills. And until (at the very least) he learns a solid sprawl he will continually get owned by wrestlers/grappler's. Roy Nelson while a former IFL champion is no top tier fighter nor striker. He was outmatched in the stand up against Kimbo but dominated him on the ground. I don't see Nelson winning TUF and I do see Kimbo in the UFC regardless of the outcome of this show.
It's kind of funny to see the attention that Kimbo continues to get. Just reading the news on line this morning brought me to all kinds of headlines about his fight--as if everybody is surprised about how it turned out.
I'd be disappointed in Nelson's performance if I had cared about him at all in the first place. As a Renzo black belt, I'd expect him to be able to take the fight to the ground and he got good positions but he didn't do that much with it. For such a huge guy, he doesn't seem to have much upper body strength--even with Kimbo's right arm out of action, he couldn't get anything on the left. And he keeps his lead hand low, working those little kittykat hooking jabs. A competent heavyweight is going to blast his head off his shoulders.
I think that the learning curve is too steep for either of those guys to become anything other than what they are. They do what they do, and they'll be the same once TUF is over. For my money, despite all the recent noise, I think that heavyweight is the UFC's least interesting weight division.
Cain domintaed no doubt.... The Machida fight I thought went the wrong way.... but Shogun did not domintae and to be the champ you have to beat the champ and I dont think he did enough to win the belt in a decission
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- #166
I haven't seen this but will try to get on it tonight! I love Shogun (and Machida) so I can't wait to see that one. Popular opinion around the 'net seems to be that Shogun should have gotten the nod but I'll have to see for myself.
This is the first ppv that I've missed in a while, I read about it on Sherdog. The Valesquez win didn't surprise me at all, I didn't expect Rothwell to make that much of a splash in the UFC.
This is the first sensible thing I've read on MMA in a while. I've told many, many people that while personally I felt that Shogun squeaked out a win he just didn't do enough to topple the champ so I can understand why the judges scored it the way they did.
Guys like Big Country and Ben Rothwell are going to have to learn that the Heavyweights in the UFC are beasts not fat guys. If they are going to hang they need to drop the flab and work up their endurance/cardio.
It didn't look like Rothwell was even in the fight and he outweighed Cain by 33 lbs (I think). I think that the stoppage was questionable because it looked to me like Ben was getting up, but if it didn't get stopped then, it probably would have gotten stopped in the next minute or two.
The Rua Machida fight was close. I don't understand what you mean when you say that Shogun squeaked out a win but he didn't do enough to be the champ? If you win the fight shouldn't you win the fight? I thought that the first three rounds were close enough to possibly be a draw and can understand the judges giving those rounds to Machida.
Some of the other fights were pretty good. Chael Sonnen looked great. I didn't expect him to dominate like he did.
Joe Stevenson looked pretty good too. Training with Greg Jackson is helping him.
What I mean is I gave two rounds definitively to each fighter. The remaining round was so so close, but I think I would have given it to Shogun. In my mind he squeaked out a win. However, the judges obviously didn't see it that way and I think it is because it wasn't a dominant performance. The Dragon was never in any real trouble, never KO'd, wobbled or in danger of being KO'd or submitted. I think to topple a champ you should have to dominate them. It's ok (IMO) to win a title on a decision but it should be an obvious domination.
That makes sense, thanks.
Anytime broham
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- #173
Anybody see Sakuraba take a pounding only to pull out a submission seconds before his impending death? I love Sak but I just don't like watching him get pounded like that....glad he won though! 
I don't know what the feelings are in MMA, but historically that's the way it's been in boxing.
How many decisions did Ali get simply because he was Ali? Without a second's thought, Norton and Young spring to mind.
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It's not uncommon in MMA either. I've seen a handful of fights where the #1 contender or the champ gets the win simply because the challenger or #2 contender didn't dominate them.
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- #176
It's funny though what a close loss will do for a guy... Quite often a guy who loses a controversial decision (get's 'F-ing robbed!' as the simple Sherdoggers would say) sees his popularity skyrocket...even more so than he might have should he have won a close decision. I'm not saying that Shogun is in a better position by being deemed the loser of this last fight, but it seems that many people are now cyber-booing Machida for winning and elevating Shogun to some mythical position for being so unfairly treated (as some see it). Either way, the rematch is going to be sick.
It's funny though what a close loss will do for a guy... Quite often a guy who loses a controversial decision (get's 'F-ing robbed!' as the simple Sherdoggers would say) sees his popularity skyrocket...even more so than he might have should he have won a close decision. I'm not saying that Shogun is in a better position by being deemed the loser of this last fight, but it seems that many people are now cyber-booing Machida for winning and elevating Shogun to some mythical position for being so unfairly treated (as some see it). Either way, the rematch is going to be sick.
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Yeah, that's not uncommon. Shogun will be ok either way. Something like this usually gets them attention and motivates them to devastate their next opponent.
Shogun should have never let it go to the judges. I scored it 48-47 Shogun, but that's not the decisive victory that you need when you're fighting the champ. I haven't watched the fight again, but it seemed to me that by the time the fight was in the last minute or so of the fourth round, Machida's mobility was really affected. Unfortunately for Shogun, he didn't get Machida to that point earlier and he didn't exploit it in the fifth. On the other hand, it's hard to believe that Machida v. Rua II isn't in the works already. Machida has a lot to think about.
There's been a lot of discussion about the Rothwell stoppage. Frankly, I think that Mazzagatti could have stopped it right after they announced the fighters. The only way that Rothwell was going to win was if Velazquez broke both his hands beating him or had a heart attack from exerting himself. That having been said, I still don't feel like we've seen enough from Velasquez to justify his elite status. I think that Lesnar is going to brutalize him (I'm already foreseeing a Lesnar win over Carwin) and then he can get some fights at heavyweight with decent competitors so that we can see what he's got.
Otherwise, not a bad night of fights. My satellite receiver crashed on Saturday night so I had to watch it on my laptop--I'm looking forward to catching it again on a bigger screen.
There's been a lot of discussion about the Rothwell stoppage. Frankly, I think that Mazzagatti could have stopped it right after they announced the fighters. The only way that Rothwell was going to win was if Velazquez broke both his hands beating him or had a heart attack from exerting himself. That having been said, I still don't feel like we've seen enough from Velasquez to justify his elite status. I think that Lesnar is going to brutalize him (I'm already foreseeing a Lesnar win over Carwin) and then he can get some fights at heavyweight with decent competitors so that we can see what he's got.
Otherwise, not a bad night of fights. My satellite receiver crashed on Saturday night so I had to watch it on my laptop--I'm looking forward to catching it again on a bigger screen.
Now that's funny. Right up there with the classic line about Vito Antuofermo- he starts bleeding at the weigh-in.
48-47 is what I scored it as well, also for Shogun. I think if Shogun would have capped off the 5th with a frenzied attack he would have gotten the nod.
I agree about Cain/hype and also think Brock is going to beat Carwin. There are exciting things going on in the UFC right now. Crappy things happen from time to time but overall going well.
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