The MMA Thread

[outclass]

Chucks punching power only worked on grapplers with terrible striking, huh? Terrible strikers like Pele? Like Vitor Belfort? Like Alistair Overeem?

Or what about the 16 professional kickboxers he beat before he started fighting mma? I guess they were all terrible strikers too.

Pele clearly outstriked Liddell

Overeem absolutely raped Liddell on the feet for the first minutes of the fight , and than , as usual , his famous ****ty gas tank went empty and he got ktfo

Vitor is a solid striker but way too inconsistent to take seriously , and he was actually robbed in that fight


Regarding those "16 professional kickboxers" you claim Chuck beat , yeah , they are obviously terrible strikers if they lost to Chuck Liddell in a striking match

 

[Kenno]

Who said either don't have any power? Who said either can't throw a punch?.

Lmao, awesome k o power there^^ Name any good fighter who has power and can throw a punch with a record like that.
Nogueira = 1 KO in 40 fights
Couture = 0 KO in 28 fights

Perhaps you missed Nogueira dropping Couture (twice, wasn't it?)...oh wait, lemme guess, Couture's got no chin

Perhaps you missed Couture dropping Sylvia 30 seconds in to their fight? Oh, right, Sylvia has no chin either

It’s much easier to drop a guy than it is to knock him out. Hardly a good reference for punching power! Randy’s been ko’d more times than he has ko’d others! Lmao, Great chin and punching power there. Plus Noggy’s a true heavyweight where Randy’s more a lightheavy.

You talk about knockout records like they're relevant...they're not. Nogueira uses his boxing defensively and to set up his take downs so he can tap guys, and Couture uses his defensively and to get to the clinch where he can dirty box or hit a knee tap or throw and gnp guys. When they land clean they don't follow with punches, they take the fight where they want it to go.

If you are going to talk about boxing skills and how awesome someone’s punching/striking power and boxing are then it is very relevant! It’s not easy to knock someone out, however it’s much easier to cop a few in the head to grab an arm?

You listed a couple of guys who outboxed Nogueira (Mir, Velasquez) and 3 who absolutely did not...did you watch those fights or just check the fightfinder?.

I have yet to see Noggy outbox more people than others have out boxed him. Oh yeah I forgot, he cops a few in the head to grab an arm to show how good his boxing skills are and how much awesome power he has.

You can disparage Chuck Liddell all you want, but the fact is he's one of the best punchers mma has ever seen. He's always had excellent timing, accuracy and power...and he can fight off his heels. Both of the Couture knockouts came as Randy was chasing Chuck, with his hands out trying to get to the clinch.

There’s randy’s granite chin again. Randy gets knocked out more times than he knocks others out. Most of his loses are by tko or ko! What happened when Chuck the gorilla faced someone who can throw em better, he got ko’d, I always knew Evans was gonna ko him, much faster to the punch than the gorilla and had better combo’s.

 

[thunderball]

Strikeforce hopes: Mousasi, Aoki, Henderson. If these three win I will be digging into the cellar and cracking a bottle of the good stuff.

 

[Kenno]

Sure, technique + speed/power/reflexes beats just technique...whats your point again?.

Didn’t you say, “While hand speed and reflexes can contribute to one's success as a boxer, they don't make you a good boxer...technique does.”? Like I said before if you just look good but got no speed, power and reflexes then you’re just a show pony or a punching bag for others.

I'll say it again, Nogueira's technique is impeccable...just because he's not one of the best technical boxers, pound for pound, that the world has ever seen doesn't mean he doesn't show exemplary technique every time he fights...he does, and if you don't agree you haven't been paying attention.

If you mean “boxers” as not ufc/mma but boxing, I’m not even comparing him to “boxers”, just mma/ufc. You did say he’s the best in the heavy’s and to say after 30 years of following boxing and 3 years of ufc I’m not paying attention is laughable.“Impeccable” is way over the top, eat 50 punches to grab an arm, impeccable boxing/punching?

My turn to lmao:rofl: Best boxer in the heavies? Please...at this point JDS has shown nothing to suggest he's not another Chuck Liddell...a big puncher that will eventually start getting timed and KTFO'd. I personally think he's got more potential than that, but he has yet to show it, and calling him the best boxer in the hevies in laughable.

Lmao,,now who’s the one not paying attention. Just watch how noggy wins and ko’s people with his fists and then watch Junior show you how it’s done. Oh yeah what’s noggy’s ko record again, 1 .Chuck’s one of the slowest fighters/boxers in the ufc. Evans has way better boxing skills and showed Chuch for what he is, slow. Junior has speed and power chuck only has a slow right hand and plus, Junior doesn’t move around like a gorilla. To say Junior hasn't been impressive and hasn't shown his potential is a severe understatement and Noggy a great technical boxer a sever overstatement!

No, they can't be learned...they can be trained...but at the end of the day genetics is king. Some guys are born with more fast-twitch muscle fibers...thats just the way it is..

Lmao, What if he trained for 50 years but never learned? You can definitely learn how to improve your reflexes/power and speed! Genetics is not the only factor. Some say fast twitch fibres are a factor and that the reason the Caribbean runners are so fast. On the other hand Table Tennis calls for just as fast reflexes and fast twitch muscles but I’ve yet to see an African or Jamaican excel at that? Not all the sons and daughters of runners/boxers or any other sport become champions! I believe a lot has to do with the sporting culture in the country and the ability for an individual to learn. South America for it’s soccer/football, China/Asia for Table tennis, USA for its NFL/Baseball, England/Australia for its Rugby, Africans for their running, Europe for soccer and tennis.

:rofl: Its funny that you claim JDS is the best boxer in the heavies on the strength of his KO streak, but then concede that Cain, with one KO, may be better...is a little consistency too much to ask for?.

lmao, I was saying Cain is a much better boxer/puncher than Noggy. It was just after I said how sloppy Noggy was, (remember he eats 50 punches to grab an arm). Why would I say Juniors the best in the heavy’s to then say Cain is better?

:For the record, the boxing Cain showed against Nogueira is was obviously cleaner than anything we've seen from JDS...thats why it was so impressive.

You want to quote records? How many wins by ko and his fist does Noggy have and how many does Junior have? Cleaner than anything Junior has is a bit far fetched. A blind beat up Noggy who’s copped a lot of punches is not so much more impressive all things considered. Juniors punching/striking is just as impressive. Both Cain and Junior are the best punchers/boxers in the heavy’s with some of the best ko records. Like I said before (after the Noggy fight) I love em both, but for me Junior is the best! I have great respect for Noggy as a fighter.

You can laugh, but you can't cite a single objective reason Randy's boxing is sub-par..

Obviously you haven’t been paying attention, how many ko’s does he have again? If he knew what it takes to be a good boxer/puncher he’d have a few and he wouldn’t get knocked out by Chuck twice. Plus he’s slow, doesn’t have good power or reflexes. Man both Randy and Chuck are slow and way past their best and hardly good examples even in their prime, same goes for Noggy, due respect to em as I have nothing but respect for em, great fighters in their own right!

If you want to stay in your little bubble I can't force you:001_tt2.

No worries, as far as boxing skills go you keep watching Noggy and Randy and I’ll keep watching Junior and Cain. I'll see knockouts and awesome striking while you watch Randy and Noggy cop 50 in the head to grab an arm to impress you with their boxing/striking power and 2 ko's!

When someone who studies and follows boxing says someone is a good boxer, thats exactly what they mean..

lmao. Has all this technique and still has a record of 0 wins 25 losses with no ko’s. Like I said before just because you “look good doesn’t mean you are, your just a show pony. Then again didn’t you just say above, quote” Sure, technique + speed/power/reflexes beats just technique...whats your point again?”

Tyson had "average" technique? Tyson had FANTASTIC technique until he started head hunting late in his career (right about the time he started losing).

There you go again and nice try. If you care to read I put “"average" technique” after Foreman, NOT Tyson! Are you also going to claim I said Ali had (crap technique btw from your point of view) or was I referring to MARCIANO? Then I said, “Would anyone dare say “Foreman” and “Marciano” were not good boxers? Man they were world “boxing”champions! So please quote me fairly!

Speed, power and reflexes are important, but without technique they are nothing...technique is king.

You can’t have it both ways, your quote,” Sure, technique + speed/power/reflexes beats just technique, unquote! From your point of view as a boxing is concerned I would much rather have fast/powerful hands and reflexes than, fires from his guard, he's got an effective jab, he moves laterally and cuts angles, his head movement is solid, he throws combos that make sense, he counters well, he rolls with punches in the pocket, he's got pretty good timing BUT can’t win a fight. No point having all this if you can’t inflict some damage, otherwise you only look good like a show pony. Anyone say Marciano or Foreman where not good boxers, they maybe didn’t look “pretty” but they were World “Boxing” Champions! All the great boxers have speed or power or good reflexes and all the pretty ones/show pony’s wish they did! If you go to your original post about why Junior is crap and Noggy is a much better boxer, I would much rather as a boxer have what Junior has than what Noggy has by a mile! 1 ko in 40 fights and eat 50 to grab an arm, great technique that.

 

[Kenno]

Couture's chin is weak? Go watch that head kick he ate from Gonzaga and say that again.

I tend to agree, what keeps Randy going is not so much his chin but his heart and he has a big one!

That overhand against Sylvia was nothing to write home about? He put a guy with an 11" reach advantage and a notoriously hard jaw on his back 30 seconds in to the fight and its nothing to write home about?.

About the only time he’s every done something like that. It’s easy to knock a guy down, (off balance, lucky punch or whatever) much harder to knock him out. How many ko’s has Randy got again, 6, no that’s about how many times he has been knocked out. If your going to establish your credentials you gotta do it more than a once.

Perhaps you are forgetting that these guys are mma fighters...boxing is one element of their game, not their entire skillset. As I said before they use their boxing defensively, and to set up their takedowns/clinch work..

No ones arguing that.

You can scoff at Nogueira's defense all you want, it just reveals that you haven't payed much attention...his chin rep was built on eating huge leather on the ground against the likes of Fedor and Bob Sapp, and getting kicked in the peanut by the likes of Crocop...not by eating an inordinate amount of punches...go rewatch some of his fights, you might be surprised.

I believe he did say Noggy’s got a good chin, I say it too, then again it’s had plenty of practice with his "great boxing skills".

Chucks punching power only worked on grapplers with terrible striking, huh? Terrible strikers like Pele? Like Vitor Belfort? Like Alistair Overeem?

Or what about the 16 professional kickboxers he beat before he started fighting mma? I guess they were all terrible strikers too.

A lot depends on how good these kickboxers are and your opponents. Chuck is an ok striker with good power like Silva with a long reach and a decent right hand. But Chuck is slow and doesn’t have very good reflexes and Tim is a lazy azz who runs outta gas. Both Tim and Chuck also have a height advantage which helps them strike easier. When Chuck comes up against good boxers/punchers they always show him up.

 

[Kenno]

Wow, you guys have been busy in this thread!

Me and me mates are always carrying on like this. Something to talk and laugh about. All in good fun.

 

[RBE17]

What's everyone's thoughts on Faber .vs. Aldo and Cerrone .vs. Henderson? I think both fights are going to be incredible. Aldo is phenomenal and Faber really pushes the pace, but seems to be reckless at times. Cerrone and Henderson have fought before. I'm hoping Cerrone can capitalize on his experience from the first fight in order to win the title. I'm also hoping he doesn't have any problems throwing knees in the clinch like he did against Ed Ratcliff.

Anyone have an opinion on these fights? The post kind of got buried in the striking / boxing debate.

 

[SmoovD]

Anyone have an opinion on these fights? The post kind of got buried in the striking / boxing debate.

I think Faber is gonna get rolled by Aldo because he exposes himself too much. Hope it is a good fight though.

The Cerrone/Henderson fight? As long as they bring it like they did the first time around I am cool. Probably pulling for Cerrone, if for no other reason than a Cerrone/Henderson III match.

 

[RBE17]

I think Faber is gonna get rolled by Aldo because he exposes himself too much. Hope it is a good fight though.

The Cerrone/Henderson fight? As long as they bring it like they did the first time around I am cool. Probably pulling for Cerrone, if for no other reason than a Cerrone/Henderson III match.

I was watching some hypo for the Aldo/Faber fight. Aldo is so explosive and that flying knee is incredible. I remember watching him decimate Cub Swanson w/ it in the first 10 seconds of their fight. Faber had a good run and I think he will push the pace, but will expose himself, as you pointed out, in doing so.

The first Cerrone/Henderson fight was great. If Cerrone hadn't started slow, I think he would've won. I'm fine w/ either one of them being champion, as long as whoever fights Varner next destroys him.

 

[thunderball]

Kenno mate...you're on fire.

 

[SRock]

Strikeforce hopes: Mousasi, Aoki, Henderson. If these three win I will be digging into the cellar and cracking a bottle of the good stuff.

I'd back those bets/hopes.

Me and me mates are always carrying on like this. Something to talk and laugh about. All in good fun.

As long as it stays all in good fun and nobody takes it personally!

Kenno mate...you're on fire.

He's a very passionate boxer. We've gone back and forth like this before as well.

 

[Kenno]

Kenno mate...you're on fire.

I'm red hot!

No one dishes on Junior and gets away with it!

 

[Kenno]

As long as it stays all in good fun and nobody takes it personally!



He's a very passionate boxer. We've gone back and forth like this before as well.

Mate, I got two mates who are karate freaks (poo) one wrestler who represented school and another 2 boxing mates (ex-amatuer fighter). When we're at the pub or at someone's home and we've had a few shandy's and this kind of stuff comes up all hell breaks lose. Plenty of times it's come to push n shove and plenty times we've told each other how many times we love each other.

Ya know Robbo, I don't know if Junior has a boxing background or whatever it doesn't matter, I love watching him, from his entrance, the throwdown challange, watchin his fists fly and the psycho moves like headbutting the octagon when he wins. I love his style! Same goes for Cain, Love watchin him too. These two guys bring it and let it fly! There are many others I like watchin and none of their styles are boxing/striking, like Lesnar, Machida, GSP, Mir, Cro Cop in his prime and Palhares.

 

[Kenno]

Anyone have an opinion on these fights? .

Who cares, where's Mejnoon?

 

[RBE17]

I care, but apparently nobody else does since I didn't offer up any critique about striking, grappling or boxing technique. I hoping for insight from the folks that actually have MMA experience as I'm a casual viewer.

 

[The Nid Hog]

Who cares, where's Mejnoon?

Ease up there big guy.

 

[The Nid Hog]

I agree with Mousasi and Hendo, but I'm not sure about Aoki. I think that all these fights are going to be decided in the stand-up.

Lawal hasn't had a chance to really show what he's got--maybe he's ready. He's strong and fast, and a heck of a wrestler. I could see him pulling off an upset if he capitalizes on a brutal takedown early on. But he could just as easy run into a couple of hard strikes on the way in. I think that Mousasi will trade on experience and versatility, and I think that he's going to end up with the win.

Sportsbook has Melendez (-145) and Aoki (+114). It's really hard to say how this is going to go. If Melendez plays Aoki's game, he's in trouble; if he punishes Aoki on his feet, I don't think that Aoki will be able to answer. I think that striking is going to make the difference and I give the edge to Melendez.

Hendo too. I think that he's going to stop a game Shields with a shot to the head from his cinder block-like fist.

 

[thunderball]

I agree with Mousasi and Hendo, but I'm not sure about Aoki. I think that all these fights are going to be decided in the stand-up.

Lawal hasn't had a chance to really show what he's got--maybe he's ready. He's strong and fast, and a heck of a wrestler. I could see him pulling off an upset if he capitalizes on a brutal takedown early on. But he could just as easy run into a couple of hard strikes on the way in. I think that Mousasi will trade on experience and versatility, and I think that he's going to end up with the win.

Sportsbook has Melendez (-145) and Aoki (+114). It's really hard to say how this is going to go. If Melendez plays Aoki's game, he's in trouble; if he punishes Aoki on his feet, I don't think that Aoki will be able to answer. I think that striking is going to make the difference and I give the edge to Melendez.

Hendo too. I think that he's going to stop a game Shields with a shot to the head from his cinder block-like fist.

Excellent breakdown/prognostication sir.

 

[SRock]

I care, but apparently nobody else does since I didn't offer up any critique about striking, grappling or boxing technique. I hoping for insight from the folks that actually have MMA experience as I'm a casual viewer.

I care, I've just been too busy to really break it down. Don't get shooed away from this great discussion thread!

Ease up there big guy.

+1

I agree with Mousasi and Hendo, but I'm not sure about Aoki. I think that all these fights are going to be decided in the stand-up.

Lawal hasn't had a chance to really show what he's got--maybe he's ready. He's strong and fast, and a heck of a wrestler. I could see him pulling off an upset if he capitalizes on a brutal takedown early on. But he could just as easy run into a couple of hard strikes on the way in. I think that Mousasi will trade on experience and versatility, and I think that he's going to end up with the win.

Sportsbook has Melendez (-145) and Aoki (+114). It's really hard to say how this is going to go. If Melendez plays Aoki's game, he's in trouble; if he punishes Aoki on his feet, I don't think that Aoki will be able to answer. I think that striking is going to make the difference and I give the edge to Melendez.

Hendo too. I think that he's going to stop a game Shields with a shot to the head from his cinder block-like fist.

I agree

Excellent breakdown/prognostication sir.

+1

 

[Kenno]

I care, but apparently nobody else does since I didn't offer up any critique about striking, grappling or boxing technique. I hoping for insight from the folks that actually have MMA experience as I'm a casual viewer.

Take my posts with 6 shots of scotch.

Mate there will always be guys here to answer your questions.