The Difference between Straights and Safeties

[Toucan]

I've only used safeties before. I've generally noticed from looking at the forum;
The reason people have different straights in their rotation is that different straights look good and have different feels
The reason people have different safeties in their rotation is that each safety provides a totally different shave

Is this generally true?

What I mean is; will one brand razor shave the same as another assuming that the two have same width same tip same grind same everything but brand?

If so, why do people seem to love the Spanish ones, such as Filarmonic, and discredit the ones that are newly made, such as Dovos and Bokers?

 

[Krodor]

Hmm....you know how Feather DE blades have a mystique of being sharp sharp sharp? And some DEs are heavier than others? Or some brushes are scritchier than others? Well, different folks like various different features at different points on each of those dimensions. There are certain "musts" for a straight, the key one being a steel that can take and keep an edge sharp enough to shave comfortably. Second, the edge needs to be as straight and co-planar with the center of the spine as possible. And too much frown is not good. Other than that, everything else is fair game.

I've not seen any discrediting of Bokers, and the Dovo-knockers seem to knock them for warpage-related quality control iescapes. Otherwise, the key thing that will differ in your list of "sames" is who did the honing and what did the hone it on. There can be a huge difference in feel between a norton 8k, a CrOx finished edge, and a JNAT edge. Not that one is better or worse, but different and that difference is preference. Figuring out what you like best is why so many of us have so many razors and honing hardware.

Does that help?

 

[gash]

...What I mean is; will one brand razor shave the same as another assuming that the two have same width same tip same grind same everything but brand?...

As Krodor pointed out, the honing will completely change the shave.

Beyond that, there's the fact that it's rare to find two vintage razors that are identical (except in sets). Much of the fun of straights lies in exploring the different combinations of razors/honing techniques/stropping techniques/etc.

 

[tomjr]

it surely is a lot of fun, indeed.

 

[shakin_jake]

I've only used safeties before. I've generally noticed from looking at the forum;
The reason people have different straights in their rotation is that different straights look good and have different feels
The reason people have different safeties in their rotation is that each safety provides a totally different shave

Is this generally true?

~~~what you pointed out between the two, can be said about each other. many of us that shave using straight razors buy various razors both new and old for a different experience, of course, that experience (each straight razor) the edge can be changed up by using different finishing hones...3 different hones, 3 different finishes, hence- 3 different blades all in the same razor

What I mean is; will one brand razor shave the same as another assuming that the two have same width same tip same grind same everything but brand?

~~~not really, there will be similarities though. I have several new Dovo 6/8 blades. Each are different from one another, unless like both of my new Dovo Bismarcks, since they are the same blade, the shaves are identical finished on the same hone. I have a recent (new) Boker 6/8, the only similarity between it and the Dovos, all are made in Solingen

If so, why do people seem to love the Spanish ones, such as Filarmonic,

~~~cult razor, and one of the best, or so I'm told...I've yet to shave with one

and discredit the ones that are newly made, such as Dovos and Bokers?

~~~I have several new Dovos and Bokers as previously mentioned. There are some straight razor users that opine that the quality isn't there like there is with many of the now OOB straights made in years and eras gone by. I've read here in B&B more than thrice how chintzty the new Dovo BQ razors are made what with warped spines and the like. Some months back I offered to hone one of these new Dovo BQ's (best quality) for a n00b straight shaver and the razor he sent me was one of the straightest razors I've ever honed. The bevels on each side of the blade were identical in height from heel to toe. I honed via dilucot and easily got an HHT4 after the strop. Test shave proved to me what the HHT revealed, an incredibly sharp razor, but it was also a nice blade to shave with. 5/8, carbon steel, full hollow. Dovo uses Swede steel and I could not find any fault with this razor, but when some of the guys here buy new German steel and the spines are warped, they aren't happy and I can't blame them

It's a crap shoot...you don't know what you have until you buy it, and most if not all vendors will not refund or replace a razor if the blade has some warpage

I bought (won) this razor about 3 months ago getting it from an ebay auction

it didn't look this good when I opened the box. you can see some blemishes that didn't come out with my buffing rig, and the seller IIRC didn't make mention in detail of the condition, other than what you could see in his/her pics. the other side has heavier pitting

and the pitting is worse than what this photo shows as it is more than skin deep some spots, but I have an idea most would come out with sanding

this particular razor (and another) has been sitting out in my garage. I have from memory began honing using a dmt plate while roasting coffee out in the garage, for something to do while I wait on the roaster

last night I decided to finish the edge. w/o looking at the edge at all and it's been weeks since I last touched it, I grabbed a coticule, worked up a slurry and started in doing 1/2 strokes doing 30 reps (laps) each side, back and forth. After so many sets and what I thought would net me an edge capable of shaving arm hair, I found one side would easily cut arm hair while the other wouldn't, so I did what I should have done before creating slurry...I looked at the edge using my loupe

I jumped the gun. There was two good sized chips still in the edge so I got out the dmt (650) and did sets of 20 1/2 strokes while I soaked my 1K Chosera as I wanted to follow the dmt work with the chosera 1 K hone, and it needs 10 minutes of soaking in water before using. that said, I could've gone straight from the dmt to slurried coticule but I like the transition between the two the chosera 1 K enables

So the chips are gone, I'm done w/the dmt, I spent some time with the chosera, now I head back to the coticule (la vienette), this one

this work I'm outlining was last night...I spent more time than I wanted to with it so instead of going for dilucot
http://www.coticule.be/dilucot-honing-method.html
I went straight for the jugular...unicot
http://www.coticule.be/unicot.html
which is dilucot basically except you add a piece of electricians tape to the spine then you do approx. 30 more laps on wet dilute slurry, rinse well and do approx. 50 laps on straight water. What all that means or does is insures HHT3 off the stone, no ifs and or buts...you will see HHt3 off the stone, HHT4 off the strop. the tape allows you to create a secondary bevel. I've heard others refer to it as simply enabling you to remove the burr...however you want to slice the salami, unicot will get you to an HHT4 shave ready edge, and if you don't have to do all of the bevel correction steps I had to do with this particular razor...if you are starting out with a serviceable edge, unicot can be performed (done) in 15 minutes tops including 60 laps each linen/leather

I was going to post in a separate thread about this razor and my last 24 hours with it but decided to talk about it here. What I wanted to say about this vintage blade as it relates to some of your questions...this blade was slightly warped. "the last 15-20% on the right at the heel was making faint contact with the hones. Since I used at least one narrow hone in this progression (the LV), I was able to do some rolling x strokes to get the edge to touch down where it wouldn't w/the wider (3") dmt plate and chosera 1K

I shaved with it about an hour ago. Despite the heavy devil's spit on the right side of the blade, the shave using this barber notched 9/16 1/1 hollow blade, it is an exquisite shaver. Shaving the whiskars directly underneath and slightly to either side of my septum XTG, it was like wiping those hairs away with a velvet squeegee

What brand of razor is it? the engraving on the show side of the shank is tough to see but it's there plainly enough to make out Savage Special. I have an idea this is a George Savage and sons razor, and if it is, puts it being made right around 1840, from the research I could dig up

All in all...you can get a warped blade buying new or vintage when it comes to straight razors. where the vintage razors shine...there are so many defunct brands out there, most straight razor shavers will unlikely ever get to sample every vintage blade ever made, whereas it's easy to buy and use all of the new ones available today, and I'm talking about production razors

The vintage blades also have the advantage of being able to be purchased for a lower price. FWIW, I have $12 in this Savage Special, and that's including shipping. Sure, it needed a lot of work to get it shave ready, but that's half the fun IMO. Sometimes I've found blades (as have others) that needed only minor hand polishing of the metal, which revealed basically a NOS or a lightly used blade, for under $25. I've also bought (won) some crap too



Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

 

[global_dev]

While jake makes a couple good points, there are many nuances to the art of acquiring straights. Especially vintages.

Heavily pitted, 9/16s will probably always be inexpensive, vintage or "new". Look up a vintage that is 8/8s+, has "for barbers use", has special scales, certain maker, etc and the price is either there or higher than new made at the highest tier.

No one iirc, mentioned the various grinds and the technique supposedly required.

But for sure, the hones definitely are big game changers. And there is no mild vs aggressive as DEs have. You gotta watch your @$$ whenever you holding a straight.

 

[Gamma]

More toys = more fun.