Tatara Masamune or Rex Envoy (or maybe something else?!)

[never-stop-learning]

I have the Masamune, the Nodachi (SB & OC) and the Envoy. Of these choices, I'd get the Envoy. I don't find the Envoy to be overly aggressive and have used it for several days in a row on more than one occasion.

The DE razors that I rank higher than the Envoy are the Ti Blackbird SB, Lambda Athena and Wolfman Ti WR2 1.25 SB.

 

[Patrice]

In terms of adjustable the Progress is the one. Oldest ajustable razor still produced (since 1955!), and it's not by chance. It's my preferred shaving tool after the Blackbird, much better than the Flexi IMO because I don't like the geometry of the Flexi but if you like "heavy and small" the Flexi is also an excellent choice. There are more mixed feelings about the Future. It's a good razor but it's a bit less intuitive than the Progress. I'd say Future is good to vary your experience but not as a first choice.

 

[Manye]

I have both razors and like both. I agree that the Envoy is much more blade forward but I like that. The Masamune is a great razor. Somewhere on the forum a member (apologies, I’ve forgotten who) likened to it a modern version of the Gillette Tech. Couldn’t agree more. Mild and capable of giving a very close shave. If I had to pick one, I would pick the Envoy. It’s more fun for me to use, plus I love the industrial chunk of the overall design.

 

[Dave himself]

No drama mate , maybe we'll get to meet up sometime. Now talking about the Pearl hammer. The fit and finish on my razor is very good, like I said its efficient and really smooth. My first shave I was a bit taken back. The first stroke I took there was no blade feel or much audio feedback but it removed the whiskers effortlessly. Two passes WTG then XTG and a few touch ups left me with an almost BBS shave. The only thing I don't like about the razor is its stock handle, its to long for my liking, so I changed it for a SS RazoRock handle. It's totally transformed the razor for me making it much easier to move around my face with ease.

As for the Progress I'm with @Patrice. This is one my favorite razors in my small collection and with good reason. I love the feel, build, and the way I looks. There's just something about it that I can't explain that makes it special to me. For me having an adjustable is fun. There are times I will just leave it on one setting for a whole shave. Then there are times I'll go up and down the settings for different passes. I know the razor is made from Zamac, but that doesn't bother me. The way I look at it is there are plenty of Techs still being used today with Zamac top caps that were made in the 60s. So maybe if I look after this razor and keep it clean it will possibly see me out for the rest of my days

Sorry for the long winded reply mate I just hope that some of this helps.

 

[StewB]

Regarding the Pearl Blaze being similar to the DE89/R89: Yes, somewhat, albeit a bit more efficient. I prefer to use it with a shorter handle than the long handle that comes with it.

 

[BigJ]

Great thread!! So many options, so little time!!

 

[Rob72]

Pearl is an Indian company, and their razors are solid plated brass. Very comparable to the Rex (at least the Flexi to the Ambassador), and, IME, excellent quality. They had some issues in early production, as did Rex, but I have not heard any recent complaints.

Fantastic value, if you want to try a modern adjustable. Again, the Flexi is a heavy razor, but so is the Rex. The Rex grip is more aggressive, and it (subjectively) has more blade exposure throughout its range. The Flexi SB is a step down in aggression, and the grip is fairly comparable to a Gillette FatBoy/195, although it is a different pattern.

 

[BelfastBlade]

They're similar, but I think the blade geometry is different between all the Timeless models. Pretty sure, the Aluminum is the mildest of the Timeless razors.
Hopefully someone that knows better than me can tell you for sure.

Ah, I see. I just had assumed maybe the Aluminium and the Bronze were same design then the Stainless and Titanium another design but really don't know much about them. I don't think I'll be going down the Timeless route at present anyways! Thank you.

I believe most people wait 2 to 3 months. It depends if you can get on the list for the next production run or if you have to wait for the one after that.

Thank you! I was just curious really. Not that I'm in a big hurry or anything. I signed up for both but I think I'd be most interested in the Athena.. if I get notified about it I'll likely pick one up. I really like them from what I've seen. They were a great suggestion!

I have the Masamune, the Nodachi (SB & OC) and the Envoy. Of these choices, I'd get the Envoy. I don't find the Envoy to be overly aggressive and have used it for several days in a row on more than one occasion.

The DE razors that I rank higher than the Envoy are the Ti Blackbird SB, Lambda Athena and Wolfman Ti WR2 1.25 SB.

Thanks very much for the input! Much appreciated! I'll have a look at all the others too.

In terms of adjustable the Progress is the one. Oldest ajustable razor still produced (since 1955!), and it's not by chance. It's my preferred shaving tool after the Blackbird, much better than the Flexi IMO because I don't like the geometry of the Flexi but if you like "heavy and small" the Flexi is also an excellent choice. There are more mixed feelings about the Future. It's a good razor but it's a bit less intuitive than the Progress. I'd say Future is good to vary your experience but not as a first choice.

I'm actually very interested in a Progress.. from what I've been reading up about them lately. Like you say, I seen all the old adverts and things dating back to the 50s and lots of vintage ones.

At first I didn't like the plastic knob.. I know you can replace it with a metal one from some stores in the USA.. but I don't think I'd both going to those extremes. Plus from what I saw the knob could cost the price of the razor! Especially when you factor in shipping, import fees etc.

I liked the Futur too but most people on here seem to have a preference for the Progress. Maybe as its older and I know older items tend to get more appreciation on B&B! The Progress being very 50s and the Futur being very 80s. I'm unsure really.. it's difficult to know which one to go for.

Some folks say the Futur is too bulky and some find it too rough even on the lowest settings.. But I like it.. I was tempted to buy one in gold just for something outlandish and different! The Futur is somewhat futuristic looking so I thought.. why not go all out with the loudest finish! But on the other hand.. maybe the Progress would be a better purchase.

But even with it there's the question of which handle to go with. The original 500 or the "long" version 510. 3.5 inches vs 4.15 inches. I'm not sure if the plastic knob is included in that, but I'd imagine it is. I typically go with "original" items in situations like this. I just tend to like going with the original design/product.. and the long version seems to be a later release.

I just checked online and the R89 seems to have a handle length of 3.2 inches and it feels about perfect to me. So maybe the original would be the best choice.. is your Progress the original or the long?

I have both razors and like both. I agree that the Envoy is much more blade forward but I like that. The Masamune is a great razor. Somewhere on the forum a member (apologies, I’ve forgotten who) likened to it a modern version of the Gillette Tech. Couldn’t agree more. Mild and capable of giving a very close shave. If I had to pick one, I would pick the Envoy. It’s more fun for me to use, plus I love the industrial chunk of the overall design.

Thank you very much for the input, Manye!

No drama mate , maybe we'll get to meet up sometime. Now talking about the Pearl hammer. The fit and finish on my razor is very good, like I said its efficient and really smooth. My first shave I was a bit taken back. The first stroke I took there was no blade feel or much audio feedback but it removed the whiskers effortlessly. Two passes WTG then XTG and a few touch ups left me with an almost BBS shave. The only thing I don't like about the razor is its stock handle, its to long for my liking, so I changed it for a SS RazoRock handle. It's totally transformed the razor for me making it much easier to move around my face with ease.

As for the Progress I'm with @Patrice. This is one my favorite razors in my small collection and with good reason. I love the feel, build, and the way I looks. There's just something about it that I can't explain that makes it special to me. For me having an adjustable is fun. There are times I will just leave it on one setting for a whole shave. Then there are times I'll go up and down the settings for different passes. I know the razor is made from Zamac, but that doesn't bother me. The way I look at it is there are plenty of Techs still being used today with Zamac top caps that were made in the 60s. So maybe if I look after this razor and keep it clean it will possibly see me out for the rest of my days

Sorry for the long winded reply mate I just hope that some of this helps.

Thank you for the help and advice, Dave! It is greatly appreciated!

Regarding the Pearl Blaze being similar to the DE89/R89: Yes, somewhat, albeit a bit more efficient. I prefer to use it with a shorter handle than the long handle that comes with it.

Ah, I see what you mean! Hmm, maybe a bit too similar to the R89 in that case. I think if going the Pearl way I'd likely go for one of their other models in that case. Thanks very much for the advice!

Great thread!! So many options, so little time!!

It certainly hasn't made my decision any easier! I can tell you that much. When I made it I was debating between two razors.. maybe three at a push. But now, after reading all the posts in this thread its more like 15.

To be honest I'm not really in any rush though. I've mostly been buying soaps and brushes as of late and I have quite a small collection of razors.. just five or six vintage straights and similarly five or six modern day double edged safety razors.. so I just figured I'd treat myself to another double edge.

An adjustable has crossed my mind as I don't even have one of those. Maybe a Merkur Progress or Futur or possibly one of these Pearl Flexi so many folks have suggested. I had been looking at them on YouTube and one man had made a video about the different versions and saying his one (not sure which version) had issue with blade alignment.. like I say, not in any huge rush so I decided to hold off for a few days and do some more research.

Pearl is an Indian company, and their razors are solid plated brass. Very comparable to the Rex (at least the Flexi to the Ambassador), and, IME, excellent quality. They had some issues in early production, as did Rex, but I have not heard any recent complaints.

Fantastic value, if you want to try a modern adjustable. Again, the Flexi is a heavy razor, but so is the Rex. The Rex grip is more aggressive, and it (subjectively) has more blade exposure throughout its range. The Flexi SB is a step down in aggression, and the grip is fairly comparable to a Gillette FatBoy/195, although it is a different pattern.

Hi Rob. Thank you for your post! Yes indeed, I've been doing some reading about Pearl and that pretty much the conclusion I had came to also. I'll definitely be keeping the Pearl Flexi in mind. I would like to try and adjustable as I don't actually have one.. I'm kind of debating between the Pearl and a Merkur Progress or Futur (at least when it comes to reasonably priced adjustables) Thanks again.

 

[Calm_Shaver]

My suggestion would be the following: carbon ++ plate, Chieseled face ti legacy and aylsworth drakkant plus plate.

 

[sidpost]

I've decided to treat myself to another DE safety razor and I've been debating over a number of different ones.

I've been looking at a few of the better known razors in my range that I don't have already.. I've spent some time reading about them, watching videos etc and leading contenders at present are the Tatara Masamune (closed comb) and to my own surprise, the Rex Envoy. I've read through the Tatara threads and I've came to the conclusion this would be a very good razor and seems to be held in high regard with some members on here. I also seem to like combinations of razors that are classed as mild-medium put with a sharp blade like a Feather.
...
I don't really want to spend any more than about £150 ($200?) on a razor at the moment.. I probably would go to £200 max. So I'm looking at razors up to approx £150 mark, give £50 take £50. So I'm basically looking a good quality, mid priced razor.. in this category I already own a Muhle Rocca and a Feather AS-D2. I'd like something a little different to what I already own.. as I haven't really got myself a new razor lately. Its been mostly "software".
...
At the moment, for me the Tatara Masamune seems to be winning but I'm not really up to date on all the good razors out there.. there are probably other good offerings that I don't even know exist. I just know the common ones. So if thought maybe someone could have a chat or offer some advice or recommendations.

Also, although not essential it would be a great bonus if the razor was available to buy in UK. Often when buying from further afield things can double their price quite quick between international shipping charges and customs and handling fees etc!

Lambda Razor from Greece

These appear to be ~171£ or slightly less. Both models appear to super solid options for you!

 

[Phoenixkh]

The Rex Envoy is a lot more aggressive than the Tatara Masamune. Both are quite different beasts and I would not really like to compare them at all.
I have an Envoy, supposedly it is an Ambassador at setting 3 something. Whatever, it has quite significant positive blade exposure. The Masamune on the other hand has even negative blade exposure.

>>> I personally would suggest the Tatara Masamune Nodachi, if you like it better with the handle of the Masamune. The finish is a bead blast matte or black. This one has positive exposure and is still only medium aggressive, particularly the SB version.

The Timeless Bronze has a .38 and a .76 gap version, the latter is a veritable monster, so beware. But seems you ruled it out already.

I can totally recommend the Stando razors, you would have to import them from Poland though, not sure in which part of the world you are.

For 200 bucks... what comes to MY mind are the Lambda Razors. They have a waiting list and come from Greece, so not that readily available.

But Lambda Ares and Athena are in terms of premium feeling more than one level above all the razors mentioned before.


... ha... hehe... guess I didn't make things any easier for you...^^

@Iridian , I have to agree with you. I haven't tried the Ares but the Athena is a very special razor, esp. at its price point. The box alone would be over $100US if purchased elsewhere, I think. I love mine. I used it for my last shave, in fact, and it's brilliant. It easily compares to razors 1.5 to 2 times its cost (think Wolfman here) It easily fits into that mild to medium but efficient category. And it sings and shoots water out the ends when you hold it under a faucet... what more could you ask? <eg>

 

[sidpost]

Thank you and @Big_T for suggesting the Lambda razors! Another I was unaware of but I've been doing some research on them.. they look wonderful so I signed up to their waiting list for the Athena! I figured the Athena would be more to my tastes at the moment being closed comb. I'll definitely keep an eye out for a mail from them.. I might very well take them up on the offer if they do offer me the chance to buy one! Do you know, is there typically a long waiting time once you apply on the waiting list? Was just curious and wondered if anyone knew approximately how long one may be waiting to get one. Thanks!

For me, it was ~3 months. He does batches so, depending on when you join the waitlist and how many were left out from the previous batch, you could have less or a bit more wait to get one.

 

[Phoenixkh]

No drama mate , maybe we'll get to meet up sometime. Now talking about the Pearl hammer. The fit and finish on my razor is very good, like I said its efficient and really smooth. My first shave I was a bit taken back. The first stroke I took there was no blade feel or much audio feedback but it removed the whiskers effortlessly. Two passes WTG then XTG and a few touch ups left me with an almost BBS shave. The only thing I don't like about the razor is its stock handle, its to long for my liking, so I changed it for a SS RazoRock handle. It's totally transformed the razor for me making it much easier to move around my face with ease.

As for the Progress I'm with @Patrice. This is one my favorite razors in my small collection and with good reason. I love the feel, build, and the way I looks. There's just something about it that I can't explain that makes it special to me. For me having an adjustable is fun. There are times I will just leave it on one setting for a whole shave. Then there are times I'll go up and down the settings for different passes. I know the razor is made from Zamac, but that doesn't bother me. The way I look at it is there are plenty of Techs still being used today with Zamac top caps that were made in the 60s. So maybe if I look after this razor and keep it clean it will possibly see me out for the rest of my days

Sorry for the long winded reply mate I just hope that some of this helps.

A note: you can also buy replacement parts for the Progress directly from Merkur and their prices aren't cost prohibitive for them, either.

 

[Patrice]

Hi @BelfastBlade!
Regarding the Progress, I have the short version which I like very much but I have never tried the long one.
I didn't like long handles until I tried the Pearl Blaze which I liked very much.
There is no good of bad configuration, it's more the overall equilibrium that you want to appreciate.
Reason why I don't like razors from razor makers who propose a head and several handles.
It makes me think they have not put enough thinking in the design of the tool overall.
Reason why also I think that Progress is better with original knob. A metal knob will significantly put more weight on the bottom of the razor and therefore change the equilibrium of the tool.
One of the specifies of the Progress is that the head is heavy compared to the light hollowed handle.
It participates to its efficiency.

The future is a total different tool. It is less maneuverable. Bigger and heavier. It's an outsider that I would consider after the Progress which is "the" classic razor in my opinion like some other fellow would consider it's "the" Tech of "the" Fatboy, etc.

 

[Dave himself]

A note: you can also buy replacement parts for the Progress directly from Merkur and their prices aren't cost prohibitive for them, either.

Thanks for the heads, that's really good to know.

 

[sidpost]

A note: you can also buy replacement parts for the Progress directly from Merkur and their prices aren't cost prohibitive for them, either.

Thanks for the heads, that's really good to know.

Yep, great to know parts are available for a reasonable price.

 

[BelfastBlade]

My suggestion would be the following: carbon ++ plate, Chieseled face ti legacy and aylsworth drakkant plus plate.

Thank you very much, @Calm_Shaver I'll be sure to have a look at all those when I get a chance.

Looking at thee Aylesworth razors now. Another one I was unfamiliar with! Very nice indeed and not too bad price wise either.

Lambda Razor from Greece

These appear to be ~171£ or slightly less. Both models appear to super solid options for you!

@Iridian , I have to agree with you. I haven't tried the Ares but the Athena is a very special razor, esp. at its price point. The box alone would be over $100US if purchased elsewhere, I think. I love mine. I used it for my last shave, in fact, and it's brilliant. It easily compares to razors 1.5 to 2 times its cost (think Wolfman here) It easily fits into that mild to medium but efficient category. And it sings and shoots water out the ends when you hold it under a faucet... what more could you ask? <eg>

For me, it was ~3 months. He does batches so, depending on when you join the waitlist and how many were left out from the previous batch, you could have less or a bit more wait to get one.

I'm definitely going to buy one of these Lambda razors as soon as I can! Whenever I get an invite to purchase one I'll definitely do so. Both look great but the Athena will be my personal choice. If around three months waiting list so maybe I'll likely be buying on as a Christmas gift to myself!

I'll maybe pick up something inexpensive in the meantime. I'd really like the Tatara some time too.. especially the "dark" version which I think looks fantastic.. but all in time so its not as severe on the bank balance. I've pre-ordered one of the Goodfella's Smile Valynor razors also.. but they're not released until late September. Really looking forward to that one.

A note: you can also buy replacement parts for the Progress directly from Merkur and their prices aren't cost prohibitive for them, either.

Thank you for sharing that! Much appreciated and good to know.

Hi @BelfastBlade!
Regarding the Progress, I have the short version which I like very much but I have never tried the long one.
I didn't like long handles until I tried the Pearl Blaze which I liked very much.
There is no good of bad configuration, it's more the overall equilibrium that you want to appreciate.
Reason why I don't like razors from razor makers who propose a head and several handles.
It makes me think they have not put enough thinking in the design of the tool overall.
Reason why also I think that Progress is better with original knob. A metal knob will significantly put more weight on the bottom of the razor and therefore change the equilibrium of the tool.
One of the specifies of the Progress is that the head is heavy compared to the light hollowed handle.
It participates to its efficiency.

The future is a total different tool. It is less maneuverable. Bigger and heavier. It's an outsider that I would consider after the Progress which is "the" classic razor in my opinion like some other fellow would consider it's "the" Tech of "the" Fatboy, etc.

Hello, @Patrice!

Well that's pretty much what I was looking to hear. I think if going with the Progress I will get the original, regular length handled version.. I believe the regular is the one they call the Progress 500.

It seems the handle isn't actually that short anyways.. the specs say its longer than an R89 so I think it should be more than adequate. Come to think of it, I don't have any razors that are of the "long handle" variety.. so probably best sticking with what I know.

I see what you mean about that.. and the differences between the Futur and the Progress. How you feel the Progess as the classic razor. I suppose in some respects its kind of like Germany's answer to the Adjustable 195 or "Fatboy". I wonder how it shaves in comparison to one.. if it would be similar or not.

Thank you very much for all the help in regards to the Progress. It means a lot to me and I'm very grateful!

Thanks for the heads, that's really good to know.

Yep, great to know parts are available for a reasonable price.

I agree! Thanks to @Phoenixkh for this piece of information!

 

[BelfastBlade]

Guys, I was thinking I'll maybe just buy myself an affordable razor for the moment and wait until I get an invite to purchase an Athena from Lambda Razors.. which from what I gather could be a few months. I've signed up anyways so we shall see. That would work out perfectly as it could be my Christmas present to myself.. plus the fact by that time I'll have some more money saved up so I could probably get myself the Tatara too.

So if I was to buy an affordable razor for the moment just for something to keep me entertained.. I'm thinking an adjustable as I don't actually own one.. and in adjustables I was thinking a Merkur Progress or Pearl Flexi. Out of the two.. which would you guys choose? I'm leaning towards the Progress as its a German classic and everyone on here seems to speak highly of it.. but at the same time the Pearl is kind of like an Indian Rex Ambassador for £70 rather than £250!

I'd like a nice modern adjustable like a Rex Ambassador but I find it difficult to justify the price. For that kind of money I'd personally like something more exclusive or "special"? I dunno if that's the right words at all. I don't mean any disrespect to Rex, I know they make beautiful, very high quality razors.. just when paying high prices, I typically prefer one of these slightly smaller scale, almost boutique/artisan sort of razor makers.. for example maybe Tatara or Timeless or this newly discovered Lambda. I'm hope you get what I'm trying to say!

 

[never-stop-learning]

Guys, I was thinking I'll maybe just buy myself an affordable razor for the moment and wait until I get an invite to purchase an Athena from Lambda Razors.. which from what I gather could be a few months. I've signed up anyways so we shall see. That would work out perfectly as it could be my Christmas present to myself.. plus the fact by that time I'll have some more money saved up so I could probably get myself the Tatara too.

So if I was to buy an affordable razor for the moment just for something to keep me entertained.. I'm thinking an adjustable as I don't actually own one.. and in adjustables I was thinking a Merkur Progress or Pearl Flexi. Out of the two.. which would you guys choose? I'm leaning towards the Progress as its a German classic and everyone on here seems to speak highly of it.. but at the same time the Pearl is kind of like an Indian Rex Ambassador for £70 rather than £250!

I'd like a nice modern adjustable like a Rex Ambassador but I find it difficult to justify the price. For that kind of money I'd personally like something more exclusive or "special"? I dunno if that's the right words at all. I don't mean any disrespect to Rex, I know they make beautiful, very high quality razors.. just when paying high prices, I typically prefer one of these slightly smaller scale, almost boutique/artisan sort of razor makers.. for example maybe Tatara or Timeless or this newly discovered Lambda. I'm hope you get what I'm trying to say!

I have both the Progress (Opgress Modification) and the Pearl Flexi.

Before I joined B&B, the stock Merkur Progress was my only razor. I used it pretty much every day from 2013 to 2019. For me, the Progress is a true 'Daily Driver'.

 

[BelfastBlade]

I have both the Progress (Opgress Modification) and the Pearl Flexi.

Before I joined B&B, the stock Merkur Progress was my only razor. I used it pretty much every day from 2013 to 2019. For me, the Progress is a true 'Daily Driver'.

Awesome. Thank you very much for the help. So you would recommend the Progress of those two? Is yours the original handle version? I think it would be my choice. I'll maybe go for the Progress for the time being.

P.S. I just noticed.. is that Jaco with his 'Bass of Doom' in your profile picture?!

He was great. I remember listening to Jaco's album and John Paul Jones' "Zooma" non-stop for months when I started playing bass.. I eventually moved over to guitar. But he will always be one of my favourite bassists along with John Entwistle, JPJ and a few others.

He was a fantastic musician.. exceptional talent. Taken too soon. Very sad.

RIP Jaco.