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Tabac Refill Shaving Soap review (New 2021 formula)

@Steve56 not sure if a comparison with c&s is fair at all here. tabac mother corp has a portfolio of brands with long lasting tradition or followership, yes, 'drugstorey', but (a) brand(s) that run(s) imo way way deeper than c&s. the soap business is peanuts for c&s - basically a blatant cash grab (thats imo), if outside of their main business, luxury bath supplier, they are known for their fragrance if at all. the market for 200€+ fragrances is managable, the one for their shaving soaps outside of absolute enthusiasts market (and even there its minimal) marginal to non existent.

generally, i did not suggest that everyone hates the new formula - what i did, was that everyone that is bothered enough to make postings about it should instead use their contact channels and tell them. i did not suggest to write them a strongly worded letter or anything.

i personally am old enough and wetshave long enough (40y/20y) to know the last thing i do in this life is chasing a gd shaving soap. really, lets be serious here. but, i just have generally the view that with economic overproduction and underutilized production capacity in almost every gd sector under the sun, that it is a buyers market (def not only meant for shaving equip - broadly speaking - but also very very very true in the shaving world), and that buyers dont need to swallow everything if they are bothered by a move a corp is setting.

i have zero inside knowledge but would assume that tabac do own their soap. every move is a business move. business moves are normally soley money moves. the jaddajadda between marketing team press releases isnt worth anything sure not my time. maybe your wise friend (and i mean it) should add 'tell them what you think and then move on'. you set the action, you set the tone, its a buyers market, there are a gazillion soaps and you as a corp want to make business with me - thats why your corp exists. i am cool without you anyways.

@'neither one is really all that great' - great enough to have prob 20threads about it on uncountabale pages only on this board with people from everywhere participating. dont know many soaps that would repeat that just like that. if, we prob dont need two hands to count.
 
@ogu

Was just reading about Tabac on another to be unnamed shaving forum and this explanation popped up:
______
Hi Phil,
AFAIK, the Tabac shaving soap was made by Dalli-Group, a giant German company, one of the biggest European producers of personal care and home care products.

However, the soap base for making Tabac shaving soap was made and provided by a German factory called Dreiring, part of the Kappus group.
The whole Kappus group filed for bankruptcy in September 2018, and the final end came to Dreiring around September 2020.
Dreiring-Werk - https://second.wiki/wiki/dreiring-werk
So, no soap base, no shave soap.

They really didn't wanna reformulate the product, but they were forced to change because of the demise of their previous provider.
- Emanuel - a random guy from Portugal
______

Tabac and I'll guess Speick are possibly at the mercy of whoever they can find to produce their soaps vs Martinelli for instance.
 

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
@Steve56 not sure if a comparison with c&s is fair at all here. tabac mother corp has a portfolio of brands with long lasting tradition or followership, yes, 'drugstorey', but (a) brand(s) that run(s) imo way way deeper than c&s. the soap business is peanuts for c&s - basically a blatant cash grab (thats imo), if outside of their main business, luxury bath supplier, they are known for their fragrance if at all. the market for 200€+ fragrances is managable, the one for their shaving soaps outside of absolute enthusiasts market (and even there its minimal) marginal to non existent.

generally, i did not suggest that everyone hates the new formula - what i did, was that everyone that is bothered enough to make postings about it should instead use their contact channels and tell them. i did not suggest to write them a strongly worded letter or anything.

i personally am old enough and wetshave long enough (40y/20y) to know the last thing i do in this life is chasing a gd shaving soap. really, lets be serious here. but, i just have generally the view that with economic overproduction and underutilized production capacity in almost every gd sector under the sun, that it is a buyers market (def not only meant for shaving equip - broadly speaking - but also very very very true in the shaving world), and that buyers dont need to swallow everything if they are bothered by a move a corp is setting.

i have zero inside knowledge but would assume that tabac do own their soap. every move is a business move. business moves are normally soley money moves. the jaddajadda between marketing team press releases isnt worth anything sure not my time. maybe your wise friend (and i mean it) should add 'tell them what you think and then move on'. you set the action, you set the tone, its a buyers market, there are a gazillion soaps and you as a corp want to make business with me - thats why your corp exists. i am cool without you anyways.

@'neither one is really all that great' - great enough to have prob 20threads about it on uncountabale pages only on this board with people from everywhere participating. dont know many soaps that would repeat that just like that. if, we prob dont need two hands to count.

So what would you have Mauer and Wirtz do to satisfy your complaints?
 
the kappus group filed by their own statement for bankruptcy bc of risen commodity prices. (a newspaper suggested and reported that it is bc of the weak and diminishing soap sales). without actual paperwork behind this insolvency its imo speculation, but it looks certain that tabac didnt pick up the insolvent stressed assets regarding their product - in any bankruptcy you pick up assets for pennies on the dollar, without paperwork, which we'll never see, its guessing. imo.
the kappus group made 80m€ revenue and produced 70k tonnes soap in 2019, no clue why the closing of a facility has anything to do with a recipe but i dont know contracts regarding this or anything else.

regardless, its a money move not a 'we improve our product'-move.
 
steve i aint complaining. i dont know why you want to make it my problem when all i said and suggested was that everyone that is bothered by it enough should imo contact them instead of making passive and semi whiney (imo) postings on a board. thats it.
i just dont buy their stuff when they dont buy their own (imo proven) recipe they are selling for decades but make a press release that professional barbers all agree all of a sudden that the new stuff is slightly better lol.

i, and thats my personal opinion and action i took, told them that i dont rock with the decision.
 

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
steve i aint complaining. i dont know why you want to make it my problem when all i said and suggested was that everyone that is bothered by it enough should imo contact them instead of making passive and semi whiney (imo) postings on a board. thats it.
i just dont buy their stuff when they dont buy their own (imo proven) recipe they are selling for decades but make a press release that professional barbers all agree all of a sudden that the new stuff is slightly better lol.

i, and thats my personal opinion and action i took, told them that i dont rock with the decision.

No worries my friend, but I do not understand what the purpose of contacting M&W with displeasure is?

What do you believe that they should do? I’m interested in your solution.
 
purpose - to play the ball active and straight forward. its the most fruitfull (imo & subjectively & for every party involved) way since the reason m&w not be able to sell me smthg could be manifold in reality. from me simply growing tired of their product over me growing a beard to me shaving electrical from now on and everything in between - the outcome of all scenarios would be the same for them (m&w not making a sell) the cause that leads to the same outcome on the other hand is very different. is this input worth that much for me/them? idk, its just how i roll bc it fits me best.

solution - i cant answer that since i have exact zero of possible involved variables to work with at hand to be able to even come up with a semi educated or half realistic solution. real life corp solution that is. i wont rule out that if i was sitting on the board of directors of m&w knowing all details and possibilities that i would have come to the exact same conclusio they finally did. but, maybe not. its a stupid open outcome diplomatic non answering answer to your question - atleast it was honest and thought about it. bottom line is i think i dont have any substantial real world input to that question at all.
 
purpose - to play the ball active and straight forward. its the most fruitfull (imo & subjectively & for every party involved) way since the reason m&w not be able to sell me smthg could be manifold in reality. from me simply growing tired of their product over me growing a beard to me shaving electrical from now on and everything in between - the outcome of all scenarios would be the same for them (m&w not making a sell) the cause that leads to the same outcome on the other hand is very different. is this input worth that much for me/them? idk, its just how i roll bc it fits me best.

solution - i cant answer that since i have exact zero of possible involved variables to work with at hand to be able to even come up with a semi educated or half realistic solution. real life corp solution that is. i wont rule out that if i was sitting on the board of directors of m&w knowing all details and possibilities that i would have come to the exact same conclusio they finally did. but, maybe not. its a stupid open outcome diplomatic non answering answer to your question - atleast it was honest and thought about it. bottom line is i think i dont have any substantial real world input to that question at all.

It’s just soap man, there’s practically an infinite amount of other options out there. And I personally believe M&W did in fact field-test to make sure the new recipe wasn’t different enough performance-wise for anyone other than internet keyboard-warrior-specialists to know the difference.
 
i was asked a question by steve and tried to anwer it since he asked it twice. it isnt about 'internet keyboard-warrior-specialists' at all, 95% (unscientiffic guestimate) of wetshaver worldwide never come close to any of these shaving boards for a, imo, very good reason. in my pov most of it on it is basically a mix of babble, guerilla marketing and a timesink about very insignificant things all blown out of any reasonable proportion. subjectively.

It’s just soap man
thats exactly my point i made several times, hundreds of pages about it is imo ± worthless, shoot them an email directly if bothered and move on. additionally, to not swallow everything a corp brings to the plate like a good boy is a principle and a general view on b2c relationship that is applied not a question of keyboard warriorness - in reality its the opposite, its done silently without any publicity involved and additionally more fruitfull. i said more about this than i ever imagined in my wildest dreams - that i can tell you and would agree 100% lol.
 

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
I am not sure how to reply to @ogu - but he is a good fellow by his comments.

In the end, what would you have M&W or Czech and Speake do to satisfy your complaints when their manufacturer folds? I haven’t heard any practical answers. I think because their are none.

A manufacturer cannot continue to make a product that loses money. Maybe they folded (bankrupted) due to contracts? Maybe they had a contract to supply M&W - and others, like Spieck, and Fine, with soaps for 5 years at a fixed cost before covid then the supply chain was disrupted and costs increased. That means the cost of things went up more than expected during the period of the contract. But the factory could not raise prices because of the contract. So they folded? Quite likely!

Old Tabac is gone, unless someone wants to buy everything, factories, a workforce, and intellectual property, and as @ogu said, produce 70,000 tons of soap every year. If you want to do that, tallow Tabac will be reborn!
 
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their manufacturer folds
@Steve56 their manufacturer (the facility itself) was in their hands as well not too long ago. thats the weird short version.

longer not less weird version...

i think its really impossible to give practical answers. just the view from birdseye perspective without the knowledge of contract obligations makes it (for me at least) impossible to come to a somewhat waterproof train of thought of what happend or what could have happend. multi billion industry giants like henkel had a stake there in this facility. the wirtz family had stakes, later restructured (thats always a weird sign to me as a non-lawyer when 'nothing' changes but the legal definition/taxation/disclosure obligations/etc), formed new legal corps and the (one) production facility was always in this corp structure (it seems) owned by wirtz and/or henkel.
fastforward, now, the production facility is gone, and so is the recipe (ip)? why? it was all more or less in hands or the wirtz family till 2004 anyways (with or without henkel till the end idk), got bought out by another group, but m&w left the production there and sold the ip(?) till the (new group) ran out of money?

they (m&w) own the rights of the brand (tabac) till today, they dont own the rights of the recipe of this brand (but they owned it in 04 i guess). do they own the scent? lol. the scent is different since new formulation, right? lololol. idk man, as a non-lawyer, it feels something weird happend there - all that with the most loose monetary enviroment in human history lol. maybe würtz cashed out at the top - maybe its a fkn tax fraud by rearranging broken chairs and corp structures. after wirecard, bayer, vw-shtf- moments only in the last 10y, everything goes in germoney. i sit south of them in austria with popcorn and a few pucks of tallow tabac, speick and couldnt care less lol.
i have no clue what happend there but henkel, a mulitbillion geman dax corp, is still selling their fa-branded body soap with tallow if my google search isnt lying to me :))))

..and m&w has professional barbers that say unisono that the new version is better. lol. i'm outta here..
 
they should bring back a tallow tabac but they wont since i would be shocked if veggie base has lower margin than tallow base. i mean, its not like a gold vein went dry and they had to move. its a fkn soap base - we humans figured this out couple thousand years ago. thats why i think this whole 'artisan' thing is a complete joke but thats a rant for another day lol.

so they'll do nothing. they already did their doing lol. they peeled the production facility out of wirtz family owned dalli group, turned it into a solitary corporate structure, sold it, buyer went belly up few years after acquisition. then they reformulated and still call it original - if these two things (facility insolvency & reformula) are even linked at all, i am not sure. i am very sceptical about the whole 'soap base ip our hands are tied'-thing. maybe i am doing them wrong, if i appologize, i am still stubborn, still not buying new formula. lol.
speick is already carrying the vegan badge as an asset on packaging. cant speak about fine since i never used anything of their lineup.
 
There's this family of tallow shaving soap, they say made in Holland. Is it still available, or out of stock everywhere? The formula looks a lot like the Fine soaps.

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Ingredients (INCI): Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Potassium Tallowate, Aqua, Potassium Cocoate, Sodium Tallowate, Sodium Cocoate, Parfum (Fragrance), Glycerin, Hexyl Cinnamal, Coumarin, Potassium Hydroxide, Tetrasodium EDTA, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Limonene, Linalool, Benzyl benzoate, Sodium Hydroxide.
 
just something factual about patents (ip of soap base) bc i was curious and had my doubts but was too lazy to look it up till now. this whole tabac soap base ip thing is completely made up nonsense from front to back. (and to be honest - so is the post from the other shaving forum by the guy from portugal copy&pasted above somewhere - bc the facility was owned by the wirtz family before they sold it and there is no ip at play at all that the facility could sunk with the insolvent facility [since they owned them in first place before] omg lololol)

this is from german patent law (i live in austria, i checked, its the same just for the record):

the invention is protected 20y at maximum duration possible. (remember, tabac original - since 1959)
there are exemptions regarding medical drugs and phytosanitary products. but, a patent can only be issued, if after the examination of an expert on this field, it turns out that the invention is in fact a new invention.

there is no way that a simple and straight forward thing like tallow based soap is protected under intellectual property rights anywhere. there maybe trade/formulation secrets (i doubt that these secrets cant be lifted easily by todays technical standards but thats a whole another thing as ip) but its in no way protected by intellectual property rights.

there are patents of henkel regarding this filed 100y ago. or this one filed by colgate in the 80s - 'Shaving cream gel containing interpolymer reaction product of selected cationic polymers and anionic polymers' - this stuff isnt protected anymore since roughly 2 decades. lol. there are other shaving composition ips filed 100y ago
 
Nice work @ogu !!

That’s the kind of information that we need to hear.
thanks man!

But what do M&W do now?
nothing, they stay wealthy by doing what they do best. wirtz family is 0,00001%er regarding wealth in germoney. like top 50 wealthy.
it was a business decission - i feel that everybody got it by now that this is the tree i wont climb down regardless lol and now i go to bed, see ya.
 

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
thanks man!


nothing, they stay wealthy by doing what they do best. wirtz family is 0,00001%er regarding wealth in germoney. like top 50 wealthy.
it was a business decission - i feel that everybody got it by now that this is the tree i wont climb down regardless lol and now i go to bed, see ya.

Apologies, but huh? I do not understand what this has to do with shaving soap. Can you explain?
 
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