Slickness of PdP Formula

[Keyvan]

I have a general question on palm oil and a specific question on Pre de Provence shaving soap. Some members had commented that the best non-tallow soaps have high stearic acid content. I have three palm oil based soaps: PdP, MWF (new formulation), and TOBS Sandalwood. When I compared the new MWF formulation to the original, I felt that it was definitely less slick. Don't get me wrong, it is still quite usable.

I love the fragrance of TOBS Sandalwood to the point that I never even considered its performance relative to the tallow based formulations. After reading the ingredient list, I paid closer attention to its performance. The lather is perfectly fine and performs similarly to the new MWF. Interestingly, PdP list palm oil as its primary ingredient, but the lather is as good as any of the stearic acid based soaps that I have tried. I like it better than some very highly regarded soaps, like Haslinger.

I was just wondering why I am noticing this difference. For reference, the ingredients of PdP Shave soap and MWF are listed below:

PdP: Potassium Palmate – Sodium Palmate – Potassium Palm Kernelate – Sodium Palm Kernelate – Glycerin – Water – Palm Kernel Acid – Fragrance – Sodium Chloride – Shea Butter (Butyrospermum Parkii) – Pentasodium Pentetate - Tetrasodium Etidronate - Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Extract - Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil – Citronellol – Coumarin - D Limonene – Eugenol – Hexyl Cinnamal - Linalool.

MWF: Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Aqua (water), Potassium Stearate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Cocoate, Glycerin, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Palm Kernel Acid, Parfum (fragrance), Sodium Chloride, Lanolin, Titanium Dioxide, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Sodium Gluconate, Tetrasodium EDTA, Limonene

I have done enough shaves with PdP where I am fairly convinced that its performance is as good or better than that of most vegan soaps. Your thoughts and experiences are very much appreciated.

 

[KW Driver]

I’ve got an 10+yo PdP so I don’t know if my formula is the same as yours. It’s fine and a decent soap. I think Hasslinger’s tallow and veggie are slicker. I prefer tallows and my PdP sat for 8 yrs until I dug it out. It’s not in regular rotation. But it’s fine. Not top tier, but good enough. It’s better at cushion than slickness for me

 

[Steve56]

I agree @Keyvan - PdP performance is top shelf. And when you wear that puck out, give me a call at the old folks home.

 

[BigJ]

PdP is ‘top tier’ IMO, simply an excellent soap!!

 

[Marco]

PdP? By far my favourite soap from France!

 

[SharpieB]

PdP is excellent but I find that it requires more work than most other soaps to create a good lather. The soap puck is very dry and dense.

 

[Marco]

PdP? By far my favourite soap from France!

Many on B&B love the N°63 because of its amazing scent and, of course, I agree entirely. Honestly, I also very much enjoy the Bergamot and Thyme, which is less popular but still great smelling and equally fantastic performance-wise.

 

[Grundi]

I agree with @Marco that Bergamot & Thyme needs to be in the discussion, great scent that stands apart from No. 63!! And I agree with everyone's opinion that PdP is a great performing soap!!

Because PdP is so hard and separates from the tin, I've been using both PdP offerings as shave sticks; popping the puck out of the tin, rubbing the edge on my wet face, and building lather as I would with any shave stick. The soap easily lathers into a great lather with plenty for multiple passes.

I guess I really didn't know if PdP was a tallow based soap or not. I just knew it was a very good shave soap.

 

[FarmerTan]

Now @Marco and @Grundi have me wanting to try the Bergamot and Thyme!

Thanks a lot you enabling friends!

 

[coops]

Marco is of course correct.

63 gets all the attention... but the Bergamot & Thyme is genuinely lovely in its own right. Very different, as it's a herby/floral scent - but wonderful, and of course it's PdeP value for money too.

At least with PdeP there's only two scent options

Great, properly hard soap.

I mix sticks & had a lovely Pdep 63 x Myrol shave this morning, and it'll be Bergamot & Thymes turn tomorrow.

I'd say Bergamot & Thyme is to 63 what Saponificio Varesino Desert Vetiver is to SV Morado (thanks for the recommendation Marco for Desert Vetiver... i'm now even more sure you'll love Morado)

 

[NorthernSoul]

I have a general question on palm oil and a specific question on Pre de Provence shaving soap. Some members had commented that the best non-tallow soaps have high stearic acid content.

...Interestingly, PdP list palm oil as its primary ingredient, but the lather is as good as any of the stearic acid based soaps that I have tried. I like it better than some very highly regarded soaps, like Haslinger.

I was just wondering why I am noticing this difference. For reference, the ingredients of PdP Shave soap and MWF are listed below:

PdP: Potassium Palmate – Sodium Palmate – Potassium Palm Kernelate – Sodium Palm Kernelate – Glycerin – Water – Palm Kernel Acid – Fragrance – Sodium Chloride – Shea Butter (Butyrospermum Parkii) – Pentasodium Pentetate - Tetrasodium Etidronate - Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Extract - Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil – Citronellol – Coumarin - D Limonene – Eugenol – Hexyl Cinnamal - Linalool.

Even though the ingredients list for PdP does not list stearic acid as a separate ingredient, it contains some stearic acid as a fraction of the vegetable fats used to make the soap.

Palm oil contains a fraction of stearic acid (around 5% depending on how it is refined). Palm kernel oil contains a fraction (around 2.5%). Shea butter also contains a fraction (maybe 30%).

The main role of stearic acid in shaving soaps is to provide stability and creaminess to the lather. There does not need to be a very high percentage of stearic acid to benefit from it.

When you see stearic acid called out as a separate ingredient in ingredient lists, it has usually been chemically derived from palm oil or coconut oil.

BTW, one of the reasons PdP is such a hard soap is the high saturated fat content from palm oil.

 

[Keyvan]

Even though the ingredients list for PdP does not list stearic acid as a separate ingredient, it contains some stearic acid as a fraction of the vegetable fats used to make the soap.

Palm oil contains a fraction of stearic acid (around 5% depending on how it is refined). Palm kernel oil contains a fraction (around 2.5%). Shea butter also contains a fraction (maybe 30%).

The main role of stearic acid in shaving soaps is to provide stability and creaminess to the lather. There does not need to be a very high percentage of stearic acid to benefit from it.

When you see stearic acid called out as a separate ingredient in ingredient lists, it has usually been chemically derived from palm oil or coconut oil.

BTW, one of the reasons PdP is such a hard soap is the high saturated fat content from palm oil.

That kind of makes sense. I was thinking that the role of the Shea Butter is mainly to improve post-shave performance, but it makes sense that it could also improve the shaving experience. Also, the order of the listing of the ingredients doesn’t tell the whole story. One soaps could have palm oil as it’s main ingredient at 40% of total composition and another could have palm oil as its primary ingredient at 80%.

Ultimately, each soap has to be judged on the shaving experience it provides. I have tried four French shaving soaps and they all range from very good to excellent in both scent and performance.

 

[NorthernSoul]

That kind of makes sense...

Ultimately, each soap has to be judged on the shaving experience it provides. I have tried four French shaving soaps and they all range from very good to excellent in both scent and performance.

Practically everyone seems to say you can't make a good shaving soap without high stearic acid content, but somehow PdP works well using mostly palm oil. I don't think the shea butter is saponified, either, since it is so far down the ingredient list. It's a mystery. Maybe the palm oil is refined to increase the stearic acid content?

I don't know if you're familiar with Provence Sante shaving soaps. They break all the rules. Not only do they not add extra stearic acid, but they use mostly sodium hydroxide lye. Yet, the soap lathers well and provides a good shave. Je ne sais pas comment ils ont fait, mais j'aime bien ça.

Provence Sante Green Tea shaving soap ingredients:
Sodium Palmate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Aqua (WATER), Glycerin, Parfum (FRAGRANCE), Palm Acid, Butyrospermum ParkiiB (SHEA BUTTER), Sodium Chloride, Palm Kernel Acid, Amyl Cinnamal, Tetrasodium EDTA, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Titanium Dioxide, D-Limonene.

Osma Rasage shaving soap ingredients:
Sodium Palmate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Aqua, Palm kernel acid, Parfum, Kaolin, Butyrospermum parkii butter, Palm acid, Glycerin, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium EDTA, Tetrasodium etidronate, CI 77891, Hexyl Cinnamal, Linalool, Limonene

 

[nemo]

PdP is excellent but I find that it requires more work than most other soaps to create a good lather. The soap puck is very dry and dense.

Yours may be dry ... you're not using it often enough. Go two weeks and watch it change.

I don't know if you're familiar with Provence Sante shaving soaps. They break all the rules. Not only do they not add extra stearic acid, but they use mostly sodium hydroxide lye. Yet, the soap lathers well and provides a good shave. Je ne sais pas comment ils ont fait, mais j'aime bien ça

I do love PdP, I bought some years ago before they called it Bergamot & Thyme and there was no 63 soap yet.
Good product and still in my rotation but I think Provence Sante is superior. And such a great value! ($9-10 for 3.5oz, wow!)
But no potassium -- how do they do it and get that great lather?

Now if I could just get my hands on another puck of Institut Karité!

 

[Keyvan]

I was ac

Practically everyone seems to say you can't make a good shaving soap without high stearic acid content, but somehow PdP works well using mostly palm oil. I don't think the shea butter is saponified, either, since it is so far down the ingredient list. It's a mystery. Maybe the palm oil is refined to increase the stearic acid content?

I don't know if you're familiar with Provence Sante shaving soaps. They break all the rules. Not only do they not add extra stearic acid, but they use mostly sodium hydroxide lye. Yet, the soap lathers well and provides a good shave. Je ne sais pas comment ils ont fait, mais j'aime bien ça.

Provence Sante Green Tea shaving soap ingredients:
Sodium Palmate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Aqua (WATER), Glycerin, Parfum (FRAGRANCE), Palm Acid, Butyrospermum ParkiiB (SHEA BUTTER), Sodium Chloride, Palm Kernel Acid, Amyl Cinnamal, Tetrasodium EDTA, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Titanium Dioxide, D-Limonene.

Osma Rasage shaving soap ingredients:
Sodium Palmate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Aqua, Palm kernel acid, Parfum, Kaolin, Butyrospermum parkii butter, Palm acid, Glycerin, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium EDTA, Tetrasodium etidronate, CI 77891, Hexyl Cinnamal, Linalool, Limonene

I remember that a while ago I almost bought the PS green tea soap, but I backed out of it. Too bad!

 

[rhgg2]

I just started a puck of the Bergamot and Thyme. It's still quite dry - with a sopping wet brush and minimal swirling it quickly builds a nice lather, but one which still needs a bunch of water added. I generally find this with new pucks, and also that the residual slickness is not yet there.

But wow, even though it still needs a bit more break in, the results are amazing. I was using the tallow Fat for my previous puck, and generally I find that most good soaps perform similarly. But the PdP just cuts noticeably closer for some reason. (Using a 5/8 full hollow)

 

[Marco]

In my +30 years of wet shaving I have tried quite a number of shaving soaps from France, including some of the expensive brands. Well, Pre de Provence, despire its low price point, remains my favourite French soap performance-wise.

There is a plan for visiting New York City next year. Is there any shop I can go to that has PdP ready in stock, my friends?

 

[Shakey-and-twitchy]

Pasteurs.

 

[Steve56]

Yes, Pasteurs, and Eisler’s Chemist has better prices.

 

[jonwilson]

I have both bergamot and thyme and no 63. I think PDP are the best hard pucks around because they last a long time. They lather easily too, at least for me. I used hard pucks nowadays as shave sticks. It's kinda messy when you lather them in the hand, but you can do it like that if you want. I myself find using hard pucks in general as shave sticks are the most efficient way of usinf them because you are not wasting any lather at all. Some guys don't care if they waste lather because they got plenty of shave soap, but I like to use all of the lather I get from shave soaps and that's why I like using hard shave pucks as shaving sticks versus lathering in the hand.