SWMBO wants an Espresso Machine

[Shantytownbrown]

I think i dont know enought about true home espresso to know what I am getting myself into here, i have some reading to do, all great suggestions, and the input is more than appreciated!!!

i need to read up on at least these things:

What is PID'ing?

what is a portafilter?

someone suggested a Nespresso machine, maybe thats something we should look into? (is this not in the true B and B spirit of doing things the slow way??)

What about the Gaggia "Baby"??

 

[Luc]

We have a Nespresso machine at work. The cups are expensive, I reckon. They are easy to use, quick, clean (for the office, not for the garbage). I mean, it's good but not great IMO. My mom loves her machine and she wouldn't get rid of it!

 

[jzuzphreek]

I think i dont know enought about true home espresso to know what I am getting myself into here, i have some reading to do, all great suggestions, and the input is more than appreciated!!!

i need to read up on at least these things:

What is PID'ing?

what is a portafilter?

someone suggested a Nespresso machine, maybe thats something we should look into? (is this not in the true B and B spirit of doing things the slow way??)

What about the Gaggia "Baby"??

Nespresso is like the Mach 3 and canned goo of the coffee world. They're not "bad" per se, but it's not TRUE espresso. There is a TON of information out there, and it's a very slippery slope indeed (like every other topic here at the B&B). I know I recommend people to this site a lot, and I'm really NOT trying to take away from the cafe subforum here, but there is a lot of dedicated knowledge at Home-Barista. It's already put together in a very succinct way for newcomers to espresso to get their feet wet and not run off screaming. I also want to be sure Dan Kehn get's the credit he deserves for writing these terrific guides. Mod's if this isn't ok, please correct me. Here are 2 great reads from that site.

http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-machines/espresso-machines-101-t368.html
http://www.home-barista.com/espresso-guide.html

 

[Stateref05]

I would stay away from the Gaggia. The ones sold here in the states are nothing compared to the ones in Italy. They don't last as long and parts are hard to come by. I have a Lavazza Espresso Point that works with capsules and it is awesome. I've had it for about 8 years. Also the Nespresso machines make a nice cup of coffee.

 

[toyman]

I would stay away from the Gaggia. The ones sold here in the states are nothing compared to the ones in Italy. They don't last as long and parts are hard to come by. I have a Lavazza Espresso Point that works with capsules and it is awesome. I've had it for about 8 years. Also the Nespresso machines make a nice cup of coffee.

Huh? Gaggia parts are readily available and the Classic is almost bulletproof. As has been said above, check out the Home Barista forum (have thick skin, they're hardcore) and the Coffeegeek forum. Lots of great info and reviews.

 

[RondeB]

I have a gaggia baby class and like it. If you choose a gaggia, there is a yahoo gaggia users group that's pretty active if you want to mod your machine. If you like milk based drinks, the panarello wands really aren't that great for microfoam and you may want to switch it out or change wands completely, but that is a warranty issue. If I had a bunch of $ to spend on one I would just buy one that I wouldn't have to upgrade. However, you still need a great grinder.

 

[StillShaving]

PID in the generic sense, and when applied to an Espresso machine is a way to keep the water temperature at a more precise level. Interesting article about one here: “Tickling Miss Silvia": Mark Frauenfelder Hacks Coffee’s God-Shot

 

[Jasonian]

I think i dont know enought about true home espresso to know what I am getting myself into here, i have some reading to do, all great suggestions, and the input is more than appreciated!!!

i need to read up on at least these things:

What is PID'ing?

what is a portafilter?

someone suggested a Nespresso machine, maybe thats something we should look into? (is this not in the true B and B spirit of doing things the slow way??)

What about the Gaggia "Baby"??

PID: Proportional-Integral Derivative Controller. You won't need to worry about it unless you get espresso obsessed.

Portafilter is the handle that you dose ground coffee into before locking it into the machine to brew espresso.

Please, skip all capsule and pod machines if good coffee is your goal.

The Gaggia Baby is a good machine, and is equipped with a 3-way valve. Same 3.5oz boiler, so it won't do much in the way of milk performance.

I started with a Gaggia Classic years ago. It was a reliable machine that produced some very good espresso. I removed the milk wand attachment, and on that generation of machine, I was able to get microfoam from the 1.5" of wand that was left. If great quality foam is a priority, I would go for a different machine. If the milk can be compromised, but the espresso has to be good, a Gaggia will treat you well. As Toyman has said.. They are pretty bulletproof.

 

[jumper]

I'm in agreement that a Gaggia is a good machine. I don't want to sound snobby here but some people buy an Espresso machine and don't know what they are getting into. There is a learning curve and it can be steep. Do you both enjoy professionally pulled espresso now? Do you know the subtle differences between a over extracted and under extracted? Sour shots or sweet shots? Would you only pull shots once or twice a day or are you looking for a workhorse that will allow you to pull shots and make milk drinks as well, maybe for a few friends? Before you buy anything I would, as mentioned above, avail yourself of the wealth of info at the two well read forums and arm yourself with a lot of knowledge before pulling the trigger. A $400 dollar budget is probably the minimum for a home barista but a nice grinder that you can dial in consistently will cost half of that again. So now you are looking at $600 and most people will tell you to go big on the grinder expenditure as that is really the most important part. Warranty and parts availability are important as well as most of us keep our machines for a long time.

When I was stationed in Europe I got hooked on espresso and I've been chasing the perfect shot ever since. My last 'upgrade' was about 6 years ago and I now have a Silvia coupled with the Rocky grinder. I put an auber PID on my Silvia and it serves me well now. I roast my own beans and along with enjoying great drinks it has turned into a bit of a hobby for me. 6 years later there is a better bang for the buck than the Rocky/Silvia combo but I am more than happy with my setup now.

Some people think they can go out and get an espresso maker and plug it in and start pulling great shots that very day. Trust me that is not going to happen if you are indeed a neophyte as I was. Although, if you are willing to do some research, you are embarking on a road that will give you years of fun and could possibly turn into a nice AD. I applaud your willingness to move to home espresso making and wish well on your search for the right setup.

 

[California Cajun]

I told her that the K-cup must go (counter space issue, and besides the coffee that comes from it is horrible IMHO), I use a Moka Pot or my PressPot for my daily brew, she only used the Keurig on the weekends or if she has a day off during the week. So I told her that she needs to drink Capp's in the AM or make Americanos...I think I have that sold...

So I am down to two models and wanted some feed back...Seems the $400 range is where we need to be for a decent machine...yes/no?


Gaggia Classic
View attachment 312549

Breville 840 "Infuser"
View attachment 312550

there is also the Gaggia "New Baby" (but reviews dont like the plastic construction) and the Breville "Cafe Roma", both of these are $100 cheaper, but not sure by the reviews that they are worth the savings.

I already have a good conical burr grinder!

Thanks in advance,

Scott

My mother used to make expresso occasionally (probably in the 1960s) and give me a cup. Is that the same thing as cappucino? I can't handle cappucino because the caffeine knocks my socks off.

 

[toyman]

I'm in agreement that a Gaggia is a good machine. I don't want to sound snobby here but some people buy an Espresso machine and don't know what they are getting into. There is a learning curve and it can be steep. Do you both enjoy professionally pulled espresso now? Do you know the subtle differences between a over extracted and under extracted? Sour shots or sweet shots? Would you only pull shots once or twice a day or are you looking for a workhorse that will allow you to pull shots and make milk drinks as well, maybe for a few friends? Before you buy anything I would, as mentioned above, avail yourself of the wealth of info at the two well read forums and arm yourself with a lot of knowledge before pulling the trigger. A $400 dollar budget is probably the minimum for a home barista but a nice grinder that you can dial in consistently will cost half of that again. So now you are looking at $600 and most people will tell you to go big on the grinder expenditure as that is really the most important part. Warranty and parts availability are important as well as most of us keep our machines for a long time.

When I was stationed in Europe I got hooked on espresso and I've been chasing the perfect shot ever since. My last 'upgrade' was about 6 years ago and I now have a Silvia coupled with the Rocky grinder. I put an auber PID on my Silvia and it serves me well now. I roast my own beans and along with enjoying great drinks it has turned into a bit of a hobby for me. 6 years later there is a better bang for the buck than the Rocky/Silvia combo but I am more than happy with my setup now.

Some people think they can go out and get an espresso maker and plug it in and start pulling great shots that very day. Trust me that is not going to happen if you are indeed a neophyte as I was. Although, if you are willing to do some research, you are embarking on a road that will give you years of fun and could possibly turn into a nice AD. I applaud your willingness to move to home espresso making and wish well on your search for the right setup.

Great points - you have to want the journey as much as the destination! I got a package deal from Wholelattalove.com on my Gaggia Classic along with a Baratza Preciso. I pull a shot every morning and on occasion a decaf after dinner.

 

[jzuzphreek]

My mother used to make expresso occasionally (probably in the 1960s) and give me a cup. Is that the same thing as cappucino? I can't handle cappucino because the caffeine knocks my socks off.

Espresso is a small (~2oz for a double) shot of black coffee brewed at ~9 bars of pressure over about ~25-30 seconds.
Cappuccino is a little steamed milk and a little foam on top of the coffee.

Here's a chart for reference.

So, yes, they're the same thing, but one has milk, the other does not. FWIW, a latte is the same as a cappuccino except more milk.

 

[Barbash]

Espresso is a small (~2oz for a double) shot of black coffee brewed at ~9 bars of pressure over about ~25-30 seconds.
Cappuccino is a little steamed milk and a little foam on top of the coffee.

Here's a chart for reference.
View attachment 313853
So, yes, they're the same thing, but one has milk, the other does not. FWIW, a latte is the same as a cappuccino except more milk.

Thanks Jessy. This is actually very helpful.

 

[jzuzphreek]

there's some even crazier ones out there too!


One of my favorites! (Link for high res)

 

[ironfisted]

Wow, lots of good advice here (as if there was any doubt that you were opening the floodgates with your question). If I may offer my two cents, if you want to keep things simple for your wife, get a superautomatic machine. I know that some will object, but the Gaggias and Saecos (both are now owned by Phillips) both are good options. The grinder is integrated and it is actually a very good grinder. For some reason elitists like to believe that integrated grinders are toys, but that's not true at all.

The prices on the Saecos have been slashed since Phillips took over. At first I thought it was because of model transition (clear the old inventory and get the new ones with the Phillips co-brand out there), however, the prices seem to have stayed down. You can go to Costco to get the Syntia (at least online) and it is a model that they have carried for years and has been a great performer. The stainless version is on for $599 right now, which makes it a tremendous value. A year ago this machine was around $1,300. The $999 version comes with an integrated frother which works really well, but I don't see how it's worth an extra $400. She can learn to froth some milk for a lot less than the equivalent of $400 of grief. I opted for a similar model (Talea Touch Plus) and my wife (after the initial sticker shock) has come to be very happy with it.

One last note, regarding the Nespresso machines. They are not bad, but they certainly are not great. If you're already investing $400 on the machine, and then paying $1/cup, it's a very costly way to get a "not bad" coffee.

Good luck!

 

[jzuzphreek]

Wow, lots of good advice here (as if there was any doubt that you were opening the floodgates with your question). If I may offer my two cents, if you want to keep things simple for your wife, get a superautomatic machine. I know that some will object, but the Gaggias and Saecos (both are now owned by Phillips) both are good options. The grinder is integrated and it is actually a very good grinder. For some reason elitists like to believe that integrated grinders are toys, but that's not true at all.

The prices on the Saecos have been slashed since Phillips took over. At first I thought it was because of model transition (clear the old inventory and get the new ones with the Phillips co-brand out there), however, the prices seem to have stayed down. You can go to Costco to get the Syntia (at least online) and it is a model that they have carried for years and has been a great performer. The stainless version is on for $599 right now, which makes it a tremendous value. A year ago this machine was around $1,300. The $999 version comes with an integrated frother which works really well, but I don't see how it's worth an extra $400. She can learn to froth some milk for a lot less than the equivalent of $400 of grief. I opted for a similar model (Talea Touch Plus) and my wife (after the initial sticker shock) has come to be very happy with it.

One last note, regarding the Nespresso machines. They are not bad, but they certainly are not great. If you're already investing $400 on the machine, and then paying $1/cup, it's a very costly way to get a "not bad" coffee.

Good luck!

My only issue with Super Autos is that you could go to McDonalds or *$s for the same thing. You have no control of the coffee, which is why we want to make espresso at home anyway. Other than that, a super auto seems to be a lot of money for "pretty good" espresso.

 

[ironfisted]

I'm not sure that we're talking about the same thing when we say superautos. The Saeco, Gaggia, Jura, etc...superautos do much better than pretty good and offer plenty of control, depending on the machine you get. Admittedly, you can't play around with as many variable as on a manual machine, but with my machine, beyond simply being able to use whatever bean/roast I want, I can also adjust the grind, the temperature, the strength, and the length. Of course, not all superautos allow that much adjustment, but that's why I suggest a Saeco. The Syntia does not offer quite as many features as the Talea, but it does allow for some key adjustments. Most importantly though, it allows his wife to get a good coffee without a lot of adjustments, but still does offer adjustments if they are desired.

My only issue with Super Autos is that you could go to McDonalds or *$s for the same thing. You have no control of the coffee, which is why we want to make espresso at home anyway. Other than that, a super auto seems to be a lot of money for "pretty good" espresso.

 

[jzuzphreek]

I'm not sure that we're talking about the same thing when we say superautos. The Saeco, Gaggia, Jura, etc...superautos do much better than pretty good and offer plenty of control, depending on the machine you get. Admittedly, you can't play around with as many variable as on a manual machine, but with my machine, beyond simply being able to use whatever bean/roast I want, I can also adjust the grind, the temperature, the strength, and the length. Of course, not all superautos allow that much adjustment, but that's why I suggest a Saeco. The Syntia does not offer quite as many features as the Talea, but it does allow for some key adjustments. Most importantly though, it allows his wife to get a good coffee without a lot of adjustments, but still does offer adjustments if they are desired.

Interesting. I think I'm just very cynical when it comes to superautos. I apologize for my cynicism.

 

[ironfisted]

Interesting. I think I'm just very cynical when it comes to superautos. I apologize for my cynicism.

Not at all. It's probably only in the last five years or so that they've begun to offer so much customisation. And of course a good quality manual machine is still capable of providing the best espresso. But only if you're willing to invest the time. The superautos are more of a reasonably acceptable compromise. At least for those of us who have to balance out SWMBO's needs.

 

[jzuzphreek]

Not at all. It's probably only in the last five years or so that they've begun to offer so much customisation. And of course a good quality manual machine is still capable of providing the best espresso. But only if you're willing to invest the time. The superautos are more of a reasonably acceptable compromise. At least for those of us who have to balance out SWMBO's needs.

And we all know THAT'S the most important thing!