SWMBO wants an Espresso Machine

[Shantytownbrown]

Wow, lots of good advice here (as if there was any doubt that you were opening the floodgates with your question). If I may offer my two cents

please, i appreciate everyone's 2c's!!

I have opened up the gates for sure!
Lots of info, and now have to bring back my new education to SWMBO and see if we can get past the "sticker shock" even at the $600 price point, but costco may be the best option for their return policy if things dont work out for us.

 

[Shantytownbrown]

You can go to Costco to get the Syntia (at least online) and it is a model that they have carried for years and has been a great performer. The stainless version is on for $599 right now, which makes it a tremendous value. A year ago this machine was around $1,300. The $999 version comes with an integrated frother which works really well, but I don't see how it's worth an extra $400. She can learn to froth some milk for a lot less than the equivalent of $400 of grief. I opted for a similar model (Talea Touch Plus) and my wife (after the initial sticker shock) has come to be very happy with it.

Saceo Syntia is 999 at costco, the Syntia "focus" is 649 and the "Taleo Giro plus" is 499 on sale (200 off) the "Odea Giro" is 499, Incanto deluxe is 699 on sale (100 off) but out of stock

any thoughts

 

[Dr Roadrash]

If you are interested in learning about espresso and pulling good shots changing variables and want to learn about what you can do with a shot of espresso I would start with the Gaggia classic. Not a superauto. If you just want an espresso shot sitting there that is just ok but fast and reliable get the superauto or pod system but you will be missing something.
I did and started with the Gaggia classic and gaggia grinder. Learned a whole ton and now play with a Duetto II and a Mazzer superjolly grinder. The Gaggia did pull really nice shots, but was less stable more finicky and did not steam nearly as well as my new machine. To be honest the grinder was the biggest step up.

You can learn a whole ton about espresso with the classic without breaking the bank, if you get hooked well then I guess the bank is broken with the upgrade!!!

 

[Shantytownbrown]

If you are interested in learning about espresso and pulling good shots changing variables and want to learn about what you can do with a shot of espresso I would start with the Gaggia classic. Not a superauto. If you just want an espresso shot sitting there that is just ok but fast and reliable get the superauto or pod system but you will be missing something.
I did and started with the Gaggia classic and gaggia grinder. Learned a whole ton and now play with a Duetto II and a Mazzer superjolly grinder. The Gaggia did pull really nice shots, but was less stable more finicky and did not steam nearly as well as my new machine. To be honest the grinder was the biggest step up.

You can learn a whole ton about espresso with the classic without breaking the bank, if you get hooked well then I guess the bank is broken with the upgrade!!!

See, thats where I am torn, I think, just our presence on this site, tells a lot about who we are, folks who like to do things the best way possible, and I have been that way about various "hobbies" that interested me over the years (wet shaving being the latest, but others include cocktails and cooking to name a few) and now with an interest in espresso, I am doing my due dilligence to get the "right machine for us"....problem is, can I do everything the time consuming way? or does one of these things have to "sacrifice"? I dont know enough about a good vs bad espresso shot sweet, sour etc, I dont have refined enough taste...(eg I am happy with $8-15 bottle of wine)...so will we be "ok" with an "ok" shot? probably, is time a factor? yes, would i rather take the time to do it "best": yes, of course...so back and forth between a simple semi-auto to a super auto my thoughts go...still trying to convince the wife that $500 is what we need to spend no matter what we get.

I had a Krups about 18 years ago, and at the least I have learned why that never made good coffee

 

[Mark_M]

I have the Gaggia, actually I am on my second one (scored a barely used one a year ago for cheap). Parts are a-plenty, do not worry about that. I've had to take mine apart several times over the past 20 years or so and repair things. That thing is a tank. It does have an aluminum boiler, which over time takes some care and feeding. I do not have any issues with steaming milk, but I am not comparing this to a more expensive machine or one with a larger or double boiler. I pull 3 doubles, split them in half and steam enough milk for the both of them each and every day since around 1994. I also have the Gaggia burr grinder, which is (at a minimum) absolutely necessary to "dial-in" the right grind for your machine. At the 400 or less range it should give you years of pleasure. If I were to move up to a more expensive manual machine, I would pick the Rancilio Silvia of course.

 

[Lather]

We had a Baby Gaggia and a Gaggia MDF burr grinder for about 15 years. We used it daily and cleaned/back flushed regularly. I had to replace a portafilter handle and that's it. We sold the Gaggia pair after upgrading for $250 on Kijiji. I think Gaggia still makes quality machines. Try finding a retailer that will let you try/demonstrate the machine.

We now have a Rancilio Epoca and a Mazzer Mini grinder.

 

[EricBNC]

I have the Gaggia,.. If I were to move up to a more expensive manual machine, I would pick the Rancilio Silvia of course.

I wouldn't consider the Silvia a seriousl upgrade from the Gaggia - especially the Gaggia Classic - since both are similar single boiler machines. The Silvia might be a slightly more powerful steamer though.

 

[jzuzphreek]

I have the Gaggia, actually I am on my second one (scored a barely used one a year ago for cheap). Parts are a-plenty, do not worry about that. I've had to take mine apart several times over the past 20 years or so and repair things. That thing is a tank. It does have an aluminum boiler, which over time takes some care and feeding. I do not have any issues with steaming milk, but I am not comparing this to a more expensive machine or one with a larger or double boiler. I pull 3 doubles, split them in half and steam enough milk for the both of them each and every day since around 1994. I also have the Gaggia burr grinder, which is (at a minimum) absolutely necessary to "dial-in" the right grind for your machine. At the 400 or less range it should give you years of pleasure. If I were to move up to a more expensive manual machine, I would pick the Rancilio Silvia of course.

I wouldn't consider the Silvia a seriousl upgrade from the Gaggia - especially the Gaggia Classic - since both are similar single boiler machines. The Silvia might be a slightly more powerful steamer though.

Absolutely, the Silvia is NOT an upgrade from the Gaggia. Different? A little. More expensive? Yes. They are equivalent machines. They are both Single Boiler machines that need serious attention paid to temperature swings. The Silva, it can be argued is better built, but that's about it.

I would HIGHLY recommend you read every blog entry, starting with the oldest at THIS site (Espresso, My Espresso!). This blog was started by Randy Glass, now a prominent voice in the specialty coffee world, when he FIRST decided to pursue making quality espresso on his own. It would be very beneficial to read it in its entirety before making any final decisions. The questions he asks, researches, and answers are universal to any who decide to heed this calling. He settles on the Silvia as his first machine, but he has stated numerous times on Home Barista and Coffee Geek that the Silvia USED to be the entry machine of choice, but there are numerous other options available at similar or better price points. Please go read it. It will be a few hours well spent. I would even encourage your SWMBO to read along. You might even see your allowance increase with enough buy in.

 

[Mark_M]

Good points. I have disassembled the Gaggia many times and know it inside and out. It's a heavy duty machine, no doubt. I would like to see and compare the insides of the Silvia. I tend to keep my things working and am not afraid to rip them apart to fix them. I will certainly check that blog site. I am very happy with the Gaggia and would highly recommend it at the $400 price range.

 

[DanInFla]

I dont know enough about a good vs bad espresso shot sweet, sour etc,

Believe me, you will KNOW when you pull a bad shot! lol. I would suggest you join one of the coffee forums mentioned previously and keep doing research. If you are patient you can get a great beginner setup for a very reasonable price. For example, i got the following at first...a used Baratza Preciso grinder off of ebay for around $200. A used espresso machine off your local craigslist. The machine will take some patience, they dont come around very often (the good ones at least) and when they do you need to call them asap and say you will be there in an hour with cash to buy it. Yes, the good deals go that fast. For example, i was able to get a used 2009 Rancillio Silvia for $125. it included a pod adapter kit that i sold on ebay for $60, so really cheap after that. Not saying you will replicate the deal i got, but i guarantee you can get a used Gaggia Classic or Silvia (or similar unit) for around $150-$200. That puts you at $350-$400 total. machine will probably include the portafilter/baskets, so another $50 for a scale (0.1g resolution), tamper, frothing pitcher etc.

This setup will last you a long time and if properly maintained will last you a very very long time.

Be patient and start stalking craigslist for that machine!

 

[Shantytownbrown]

Believe me, you will KNOW when you pull a bad shot! lol. I would suggest you join one of the coffee forums mentioned previously and keep doing research. If you are patient you can get a great beginner setup for a very reasonable price. For example, i got the following at first...a used Baratza Preciso grinder off of ebay for around $200. A used espresso machine off your local craigslist. The machine will take some patience, they dont come around very often (the good ones at least) and when they do you need to call them asap and say you will be there in an hour with cash to buy it. Yes, the good deals go that fast. For example, i was able to get a used 2009 Rancillio Silvia for $125. it included a pod adapter kit that i sold on ebay for $60, so really cheap after that. Not saying you will replicate the deal i got, but i guarantee you can get a used Gaggia Classic or Silvia (or similar unit) for around $150-$200. That puts you at $350-$400 total. machine will probably include the portafilter/baskets, so another $50 for a scale (0.1g resolution), tamper, frothing pitcher etc.

This setup will last you a long time and if properly maintained will last you a very very long time.

Be patient and start stalking craigslist for that machine!

what a great idea, i had not thought about that, there are in fact several up there in my area right now, not sure any deals as good as you described, but one is a rancillo silva and rocky grinder for $675, by pics it looks well "loved", seller offered to let the buyer come over and make a test cup, with his or the buyers coffee...still seems a bit pricey for used machine, he said he was selling for an "upgrade"

the other is a Breville 800xl, similar to the one in my OP (the older version i guess), for $199, if i could get him to $150 it may be worth a try at that price point. He says he's owned it for a year, and only used it on weekends...

i sent inquiries to test the water

 

[jzuzphreek]

what a great idea, i had not thought about that, there are in fact several up there in my area right now, not sure any deals as good as you described, but one is a rancillo silva and rocky grinder for $675, by pics it looks well "loved", seller offered to let the buyer come over and make a test cup, with his or the buyers coffee...still seems a bit pricey for used machine, he said he was selling for an "upgrade"

the other is a Breville 800xl, similar to the one in my OP (the older version i guess), for $199, if i could get him to $150 it may be worth a try at that price point. He says he's owned it for a year, and only used it on weekends...

i sent inquiries to test the water

Silvia's, as well as most other "quality" espresso machines, if well taken care of, will retain their value quite well. The fact that you get the grinder with the machine, seems like a great deal to me... pending a good quality check. Be sure to ask about the age of the pressurestat, make sure there are no leaks, mineral deposits, buildup, etc. Inquire about the user's care regimen. How often did he backflush, descale?

Offer a less than he wants, obviously, especially if you're considering installing a PID (highly recommended). If you can get both for $600, and their both in terrific condition, that's a steal. If, however, the Silvia and Rocky are in poor condition and have not been well cared for, then you'll want to try to get the price MUCH lower, or look elsewhere.

 

[Kostas1]

Since super-autos have been mentioned, I'll put in my 2 cents. DeLonghi Magnifica ESAM3300. Double boiler, built-in burr grinder, and fairly customizable. Can be found at Sam's Club and Amazon for under $500. I've had it for 18 months, and my usage of it borders on commercial (at least 4 shots per day)

 

[Shantytownbrown]

Silvia's, as well as most other "quality" espresso machines, if well taken care of, will retain their value quite well. The fact that you get the grinder with the machine, seems like a great deal to me... pending a good quality check. Be sure to ask about the age of the pressurestat, make sure there are no leaks, mineral deposits, buildup, etc. Inquire about the user's care regimen. How often did he backflush, descale?

Offer a less than he wants, obviously, especially if you're considering installing a PID (highly recommended). If you can get both for $600, and their both in terrific condition, that's a steal. If, however, the Silvia and Rocky are in poor condition and have not been well cared for, then you'll want to try to get the price MUCH lower, or look elsewhere.

tried to get in touch with the guy today, no luck chatting, he was in a noisy environ with a heavy accent, will have to try him tomorrow, the Breville guy never responded to my inquiry...no worries, no hurry, there will be other deals...

btw from the pics, the outside of the Silvia units dont look well cared for, but that doesnt mean he didnt care for the interiors.

 

[Munxcub]

My wife and I purchased the 840 and are very pleased with it. Is it perfect? No, but it is a huge step up from our last machine and was at the high end of our budget. And we use it a lot.

 

[DanInFla]

what a great idea, i had not thought about that, there are in fact several up there in my area right now, not sure any deals as good as you described, but one is a rancillo silva and rocky grinder for $675, by pics it looks well "loved", seller offered to let the buyer come over and make a test cup, with his or the buyers coffee...still seems a bit pricey for used machine, he said he was selling for an "upgrade"

the other is a Breville 800xl, similar to the one in my OP (the older version i guess), for $199, if i could get him to $150 it may be worth a try at that price point. He says he's owned it for a year, and only used it on weekends...

i sent inquiries to test the water

any luck finding the grinder/machine yet?

 

[DanInFla]

what a great idea, i had not thought about that, there are in fact several up there in my area right now, not sure any deals as good as you described, but one is a rancillo silva and rocky grinder for $675, by pics it looks well "loved", seller offered to let the buyer come over and make a test cup, with his or the buyers coffee...still seems a bit pricey for used machine, he said he was selling for an "upgrade"

the other is a Breville 800xl, similar to the one in my OP (the older version i guess), for $199, if i could get him to $150 it may be worth a try at that price point. He says he's owned it for a year, and only used it on weekends...

i sent inquiries to test the water

i would offer to buy just the Silvia from him, dont get the Rocky grinder. i wouldnt go with the Breville, it has a pressurized portafilter and you are going to spend $50+ changing it out to a standard one based on what i have read. How old is the Silvia (i.e. which version - V1, V2, V3?)

 

[professorchaos]

I'm partial to my La Pavoni. After some practice, okay a lot of practice, it pulls absolutely fantastic shots.

 

[Barbash]

Absolutely, the Silvia is NOT an upgrade from the Gaggia. Different? A little. More expensive? Yes. They are equivalent machines. They are both Single Boiler machines that need serious attention paid to temperature swings. The Silva, it can be argued is better built, but that's about it.

I would HIGHLY recommend you read every blog entry, starting with the oldest at THIS site (Espresso, My Espresso!). This blog was started by Randy Glass, now a prominent voice in the specialty coffee world, when he FIRST decided to pursue making quality espresso on his own. It would be very beneficial to read it in its entirety before making any final decisions. The questions he asks, researches, and answers are universal to any who decide to heed this calling. He settles on the Silvia as his first machine, but he has stated numerous times on Home Barista and Coffee Geek that the Silvia USED to be the entry machine of choice, but there are numerous other options available at similar or better price points. Please go read it. It will be a few hours well spent. I would even encourage your SWMBO to read along. You might even see your allowance increase with enough buy in.

Thank you for the link to Esspresso, My Espresso. I have just finished reading through it and it is full of great information.

 

[Shantytownbrown]

any luck finding the grinder/machine yet?

i would offer to buy just the Silvia from him, dont get the Rocky grinder. i wouldnt go with the Breville, it has a pressurized portafilter and you are going to spend $50+ changing it out to a standard one based on what i have read. How old is the Silvia (i.e. which version - V1, V2, V3?)

no, not yet, I turned down the breville, and cant seem to connect with the guy w the Silvia...good thing I am not in a rush.