I have nothing to add to the title. Ha. I have some Virginia based blends not getting used much, some times I put a pinch of something in them to fill in the gaps and thought maybe I should try this! I did a little searching and didn't find much on it. I have access to a stove or slow cooker. I was just wondering what your preferred method was and how long, temperature, etc. has been successful for you and which blends you like to do it to. If there is already a thread on this let me know cause I couldn't find one.
Stoving tobacco?
- Thread starter doofus
- Start date
I have nothing to add to help but I sure am intrigued in our other members ideas. Great question!
From the Pipeman's Handbook:
7 ~ Does heating, or "stoving", tobacco help? Can I do it at home? A very popular topic of conversation, which has generated a variety of technical and practical responses!
First, the technical: Increasing the temperature would speed up chemical processes, making the aging go faster, but would likely not speed up all processes equally so the effects would be somewhat different. And increasing the moisture content would likewise speed things along, but may lead to speedy growth of mold. - James Beard, 2001-01-01
Yes, heat will accelerate aging, but the aging and darkening will happen regardless - it just takes longer. Heat also changes the character of a tobacco. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. But, to be on the safe side, I have always advocated cool, dry, dark environments. (The darkness keeps the labels from fading.) - GL Pease, 2001-08-21
Microwaves won't disrupt the micro-organisms present, but heating the tobacco is just not a good idea. It can undergo other changes, not all of which will be benevolent. [...] If you heat the tobacco sufficiently to kill any mesophiles that are present, you're cooking the tobacco, which will alter its characteristics dramatically. If you like a tobacco the way it is, raising the temperature to something in excess of 40C will certainly change it, and it won't be what you remember! Heating tobacco can be beneficial, if its done by the blender. Stoving, steaming, panning all serve to change the tobacco in ways that CAN be beneficial, but it has to be done under controlled circumstances, and the blender must take the stoved leaf into consideration. - GL Pease, 2002-08-19
As with any healthy internet discussion forum, people offer personal experience, as well.
[This is the "Steve Laug Method". -Jason] The method is to bake the tobacco in the oven at 225 degrees in mason jars covered in tin foil for 2 1/2 to 3 hours. One main difference I noticed, was now the tobaccos have about twice the aroma than before. I also notice the flavor is more intense, and perhaps a bit rounder, more mature. I have no idea what the prevailing thinking is on this, but I do know that I'll be stoving some others to experiment as a result. - John Rocheleau, 2004-11-11
At 300 deg. F, you'll do a little more than stove the stuff, and will, in fact, scorch it. The right temperature to do this sort of thing is no higher than 220 deg. F. Too, if you put sealed tins or closed up mason jars in the oven, be aware that they may explode. The pressure that builds up can be quite high. After tobaccos are "stoved" in this manner, it'll take them a week or two to settle down. The changes over that timeframe can be nearly as dramatic as what you experience from the process itself! - GL Pease, 2004-11-11
Having been told several times that heating my tobacco in the tins would improve the tobacco (Most likely many here have heard the old "Leave it on your dashboard on a hot day" adage), I was curious to find out if there was any truth I could detect to it. I put a stack of selected 37 tobaccos out in a window for the entire month of August, through the EU heatwave with a full day's direct sun every day. I stored an equal tin of each blend away in my usual closet stash. Recently I finally decided to open a pair of tins of Elizabethan, a mix that was recommended as a good guinea pig. I'm sorry to say I can't tell any difference at all between the two - they're both very good and as potent as ever, but the heated tin doesn't offer any depth or richness that the closeted one lacks. Not that I'm complaining, having two tins of good tobacco to smoke! It's possible that there wasn't enough heat involved (though, I have to say, solid weeks of 100 degree weather in direct sun seems pretty toasty). It's also possible that others of the test blends may offer different results. And, of course, it's likely that my taster may not be sensitive enough. For the moment, though, this looks like a bust at first glance. - Trever Talbert, 2004-04-19
I took bulk 5100 and stoved it in a mason jar with aluminum foil on the top (instead of a lid) for 3 hours at 300 degrees. I stopped it before it became 5105. It is so superior to regular 5100 that it is the only way I smoke it now. - max, 2005-01-29
The "hot car method", described here, is widely attributed to Freddy Vegas.
I have stoved tobaccos many times, using different methods, such as leaving a tin in the trunk of a car (in the hot weather) for several days, in the rafters of my garage for several days, in the oven at 200 for different lengths of time. Overall, I've had the best results using a crock pot. It's best to check out the temperature, so if you have a meat thermometer put it in the crock pot and change the setting as needed to reach a constant temperature of about 150. Once you know where to set it to obtain that temperature, it seems to work best, put a tin or two or three or whatever different tobaccys in the crock pot and forget about it for at least eight hours - ten to twelve is even better. It works wonders with virginia and virginia/perique tobaccos. I've tried it with English blends but the results are questionable, at least for me. - JohnnyFlake, 2004-06-17
In early 2005, this topic came up again -- pertaining specifically to sealed tins! Fred Hanna started the discussion with his "220 for 220" method...
Over the past month or so, I have been experimenting with a different tobacco treatment. I say it's new only because I do not know of anyone who has done it in quite this way. This method may not be new at all but here it is, and I believe I am on to something. BUT TRY THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!
The technique is limited in application, but results so far have been exciting, for me, but I am still experimenting. It's quite simple. I call the process, "220 for 220." I have used this mostly on Virginia (and some English) tobaccos up to this point but intend to try it with more Virginia and English blends soon. Here's what I have been doing. As I said, it's quite simple, really.
I take the ENTIRE TIN, UNOPENED and STILL SEALED, of a Virginia or English tobacco, REMOVE THE PLASTIC TOP and place it in the oven for 2 hrs and 20 mins, at a temperature of 220 degrees. I do not remove the label as this temp is too cold to set the paper on fire. Some tins swell and expand at the lid, but they seem to reduce to normal size, or nearly so, after cooling. So far, McClelland, Rattray's, McCranie's, and Pease tins have not popped open (with the exception of 1 tin of St. James Woods). The tall tins tend to hold their seal throughout the process. THE FLAT TINS, such as Escudo and Solani DO POP THEIR SEAL BUT THE RESULT IS STILL POSITIVE, for me, at least, as the tobacco inside does not dry out or become "roasted." After cooling for a few hours, I remove the tobac from the baked tin and place it in a separate container.
THE RESULTS? This process seems to change the tobacco in such a way as to, like stoving, make the tobac more dark in color, and makes it smoke more mellow, smooth, and often more sweet. Several experienced pipe smoking friends who have smoked tins thus treated agree with this assessment.
Try it with a tangy, sharp 2003 or 2004 Christmas Cheer and see what happens. This method made a tin full of the current version of McCranie's Red Ribbon smoke downright heavenly. And with the McClelland's, the vinegary ketchup smell reduces significantly, just as it does with aging. And it made a tin of Rattray's Marlin Flake smell like oatmeal raisin cookies (must be some topping they put on it, that I was previously unaware of), but the topping seemed to meld nicely with the tobacco. I have not done this with aromatics and probably will not. - Fred Hanna, 2005-01-28
Okay, I'm finished (220 for 220). The 220 for 220 Red Flake is a deeper red than the fresh tin. Much of the sharpness is gone and it's somewhat smoother. The flavor is different, not necessarily better or worse, just different. Only time will tell if I'll try this again, but I'm sure I'll enjoy this tin. - Steven Fowler, 2005-01-29
For me, this is not meant to be a substitute for aging, but merely another way to enjoy young tobacco without having to pay top dollar for the old stuff. I love Virginias but I don't care for that tangy sharp taste. I love English blends but I don't care for the rough taste that many of them have before aging. This method seems to diminish the tang and roughness and that makes me a happy guy. I would only do this to a tobacco that I believe would benefit by it. It's that simple. - Fred Hanna, 2005-01-29
I thought of [how this method will never replace long-term aging], but it shouldn't matter if you immediately open the tin. I think the idea is to make unaged tobacco taste better for immediate enjoyment. - Steven Fowler, 2005-01-29
I am smoking a bowl full of the 220 treated Half and Half now. The tobacco seems to be more mellow and flavourful than the same tobacco before 220 treatment. I will use this method again in the future. I really think that it helped smooth and mellow this Va/Burley/Perique mixture. - Lannes Johnson, 2005-01-30
Well, I've completed my experiment. I had some tins of Haddo's on hand, and as I posted last night, I baked one of them at 220 for 2:20. I opened two tins today and smoked samples from the baked tin and from an unbaked. Both tins have the same date stamp of 12/15/04. The first thing that I noticed when I opened the baked tin was the different tin aroma. It has a deep almost chocolaty tobacco smell. Not very much left of the fig & raisin aroma that I'm used to. Comparing it to the unbaked tin, it is much more mellow and sweet. The colors are not that much different. In the baked, there is a noticeable darkening compared to the unbaked, but not as much as I was expecting. I smoked the baked Haddo's this morning, and it was wonderful. It was mellow, sweet, and noticeably different! And best of all, no "brightness" in the flavor! I puffed hard to see if it would bite, but it didn't. It got hot and didn't taste that great, but no bite! I set it down and let it cool and re-lit. It was a very nice mellow smoke to almost the bottom. The flavor was much "deeper" if that makes any sense. I am now half way through the bowl of unbaked Haddo's in the same pipe as this morning, and boy, what a difference! For one thing, there's that Virginia "brightness". Just a bit of tangy harshness that you have to be careful puffing to avoid. And the harshness is just a fast puff or two away. The flavor while good is not near as good as in the baked. I would say that your process resulted in a very definite improvement in newly tinned Haddo's. - Rad Davis, 2005-01-31
[Responding to reports that certain tid lids go "pop!" in the oven...] Keep the temperatrure of the oven between 170 and 180 deg F. Shouldn't have any popping then.
I've yet to try any of these methods myself but I remembered reading about them.
7 ~ Does heating, or "stoving", tobacco help? Can I do it at home? A very popular topic of conversation, which has generated a variety of technical and practical responses!
First, the technical: Increasing the temperature would speed up chemical processes, making the aging go faster, but would likely not speed up all processes equally so the effects would be somewhat different. And increasing the moisture content would likewise speed things along, but may lead to speedy growth of mold. - James Beard, 2001-01-01
Yes, heat will accelerate aging, but the aging and darkening will happen regardless - it just takes longer. Heat also changes the character of a tobacco. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. But, to be on the safe side, I have always advocated cool, dry, dark environments. (The darkness keeps the labels from fading.) - GL Pease, 2001-08-21
Microwaves won't disrupt the micro-organisms present, but heating the tobacco is just not a good idea. It can undergo other changes, not all of which will be benevolent. [...] If you heat the tobacco sufficiently to kill any mesophiles that are present, you're cooking the tobacco, which will alter its characteristics dramatically. If you like a tobacco the way it is, raising the temperature to something in excess of 40C will certainly change it, and it won't be what you remember! Heating tobacco can be beneficial, if its done by the blender. Stoving, steaming, panning all serve to change the tobacco in ways that CAN be beneficial, but it has to be done under controlled circumstances, and the blender must take the stoved leaf into consideration. - GL Pease, 2002-08-19
As with any healthy internet discussion forum, people offer personal experience, as well.
[This is the "Steve Laug Method". -Jason] The method is to bake the tobacco in the oven at 225 degrees in mason jars covered in tin foil for 2 1/2 to 3 hours. One main difference I noticed, was now the tobaccos have about twice the aroma than before. I also notice the flavor is more intense, and perhaps a bit rounder, more mature. I have no idea what the prevailing thinking is on this, but I do know that I'll be stoving some others to experiment as a result. - John Rocheleau, 2004-11-11 At 300 deg. F, you'll do a little more than stove the stuff, and will, in fact, scorch it. The right temperature to do this sort of thing is no higher than 220 deg. F. Too, if you put sealed tins or closed up mason jars in the oven, be aware that they may explode. The pressure that builds up can be quite high. After tobaccos are "stoved" in this manner, it'll take them a week or two to settle down. The changes over that timeframe can be nearly as dramatic as what you experience from the process itself! - GL Pease, 2004-11-11
Having been told several times that heating my tobacco in the tins would improve the tobacco (Most likely many here have heard the old "Leave it on your dashboard on a hot day" adage), I was curious to find out if there was any truth I could detect to it. I put a stack of selected 37 tobaccos out in a window for the entire month of August, through the EU heatwave with a full day's direct sun every day. I stored an equal tin of each blend away in my usual closet stash. Recently I finally decided to open a pair of tins of Elizabethan, a mix that was recommended as a good guinea pig. I'm sorry to say I can't tell any difference at all between the two - they're both very good and as potent as ever, but the heated tin doesn't offer any depth or richness that the closeted one lacks. Not that I'm complaining, having two tins of good tobacco to smoke!
It's possible that there wasn't enough heat involved (though, I have to say, solid weeks of 100 degree weather in direct sun seems pretty toasty). It's also possible that others of the test blends may offer different results. And, of course, it's likely that my taster may not be sensitive enough. For the moment, though, this looks like a bust at first glance. - Trever Talbert, 2004-04-19 I took bulk 5100 and stoved it in a mason jar with aluminum foil on the top (instead of a lid) for 3 hours at 300 degrees. I stopped it before it became 5105. It is so superior to regular 5100 that it is the only way I smoke it now. - max, 2005-01-29
The "hot car method", described here, is widely attributed to Freddy Vegas.
I have stoved tobaccos many times, using different methods, such as leaving a tin in the trunk of a car (in the hot weather) for several days, in the rafters of my garage for several days, in the oven at 200 for different lengths of time. Overall, I've had the best results using a crock pot. It's best to check out the temperature, so if you have a meat thermometer put it in the crock pot and change the setting as needed to reach a constant temperature of about 150. Once you know where to set it to obtain that temperature, it seems to work best, put a tin or two or three or whatever different tobaccys in the crock pot and forget about it for at least eight hours - ten to twelve is even better. It works wonders with virginia and virginia/perique tobaccos. I've tried it with English blends but the results are questionable, at least for me. - JohnnyFlake, 2004-06-17
In early 2005, this topic came up again -- pertaining specifically to sealed tins! Fred Hanna started the discussion with his "220 for 220" method...
Over the past month or so, I have been experimenting with a different tobacco treatment. I say it's new only because I do not know of anyone who has done it in quite this way. This method may not be new at all but here it is, and I believe I am on to something. BUT TRY THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!
The technique is limited in application, but results so far have been exciting, for me, but I am still experimenting. It's quite simple. I call the process, "220 for 220." I have used this mostly on Virginia (and some English) tobaccos up to this point but intend to try it with more Virginia and English blends soon. Here's what I have been doing. As I said, it's quite simple, really.
I take the ENTIRE TIN, UNOPENED and STILL SEALED, of a Virginia or English tobacco, REMOVE THE PLASTIC TOP and place it in the oven for 2 hrs and 20 mins, at a temperature of 220 degrees. I do not remove the label as this temp is too cold to set the paper on fire. Some tins swell and expand at the lid, but they seem to reduce to normal size, or nearly so, after cooling. So far, McClelland, Rattray's, McCranie's, and Pease tins have not popped open (with the exception of 1 tin of St. James Woods). The tall tins tend to hold their seal throughout the process. THE FLAT TINS, such as Escudo and Solani DO POP THEIR SEAL BUT THE RESULT IS STILL POSITIVE, for me, at least, as the tobacco inside does not dry out or become "roasted." After cooling for a few hours, I remove the tobac from the baked tin and place it in a separate container.
THE RESULTS? This process seems to change the tobacco in such a way as to, like stoving, make the tobac more dark in color, and makes it smoke more mellow, smooth, and often more sweet. Several experienced pipe smoking friends who have smoked tins thus treated agree with this assessment.
Try it with a tangy, sharp 2003 or 2004 Christmas Cheer and see what happens. This method made a tin full of the current version of McCranie's Red Ribbon smoke downright heavenly. And with the McClelland's, the vinegary ketchup smell reduces significantly, just as it does with aging. And it made a tin of Rattray's Marlin Flake smell like oatmeal raisin cookies (must be some topping they put on it, that I was previously unaware of), but the topping seemed to meld nicely with the tobacco. I have not done this with aromatics and probably will not. - Fred Hanna, 2005-01-28
Okay, I'm finished (220 for 220). The 220 for 220 Red Flake is a deeper red than the fresh tin. Much of the sharpness is gone and it's somewhat smoother. The flavor is different, not necessarily better or worse, just different. Only time will tell if I'll try this again, but I'm sure I'll enjoy this tin. - Steven Fowler, 2005-01-29
For me, this is not meant to be a substitute for aging, but merely another way to enjoy young tobacco without having to pay top dollar for the old stuff. I love Virginias but I don't care for that tangy sharp taste. I love English blends but I don't care for the rough taste that many of them have before aging. This method seems to diminish the tang and roughness and that makes me a happy guy. I would only do this to a tobacco that I believe would benefit by it. It's that simple. - Fred Hanna, 2005-01-29
I thought of [how this method will never replace long-term aging], but it shouldn't matter if you immediately open the tin. I think the idea is to make unaged tobacco taste better for immediate enjoyment. - Steven Fowler, 2005-01-29
I am smoking a bowl full of the 220 treated Half and Half now. The tobacco seems to be more mellow and flavourful than the same tobacco before 220 treatment. I will use this method again in the future. I really think that it helped smooth and mellow this Va/Burley/Perique mixture. - Lannes Johnson, 2005-01-30
Well, I've completed my experiment. I had some tins of Haddo's on hand, and as I posted last night, I baked one of them at 220 for 2:20. I opened two tins today and smoked samples from the baked tin and from an unbaked. Both tins have the same date stamp of 12/15/04. The first thing that I noticed when I opened the baked tin was the different tin aroma. It has a deep almost chocolaty tobacco smell. Not very much left of the fig & raisin aroma that I'm used to. Comparing it to the unbaked tin, it is much more mellow and sweet. The colors are not that much different. In the baked, there is a noticeable darkening compared to the unbaked, but not as much as I was expecting. I smoked the baked Haddo's this morning, and it was wonderful. It was mellow, sweet, and noticeably different! And best of all, no "brightness" in the flavor! I puffed hard to see if it would bite, but it didn't. It got hot and didn't taste that great, but no bite! I set it down and let it cool and re-lit. It was a very nice mellow smoke to almost the bottom. The flavor was much "deeper" if that makes any sense. I am now half way through the bowl of unbaked Haddo's in the same pipe as this morning, and boy, what a difference! For one thing, there's that Virginia "brightness". Just a bit of tangy harshness that you have to be careful puffing to avoid. And the harshness is just a fast puff or two away. The flavor while good is not near as good as in the baked. I would say that your process resulted in a very definite improvement in newly tinned Haddo's. - Rad Davis, 2005-01-31
[Responding to reports that certain tid lids go "pop!" in the oven...] Keep the temperatrure of the oven between 170 and 180 deg F. Shouldn't have any popping then.
I've yet to try any of these methods myself but I remembered reading about them.
- Thread starter
- #4
Holy cow [MENTION=84481]robinfresno[/MENTION] thank you!
Commander Quan
Commander Yellow Pantyhose
A few years ago someone on another forum asked about this, and I made a rather ambiguous comment about being able to do it in a slow cooker.
Apparently, upon reaching a certain temperature the sealed tin of Union Square exploded like a bomb, and required the purchase of a new slow cooker.
Apparently, upon reaching a certain temperature the sealed tin of Union Square exploded like a bomb, and required the purchase of a new slow cooker.
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I know @jiminyshiznit has had some success with stoving. I suspect he'll be along to weigh in at some point.
Hirsute
Used to have fun with Commander Yellow Pantyhose
I posted a thread a few months back about stoving and tin baking when I was seeing how close I could get University Flake to tasting like Stonehaven.
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/481338-What-is-Stonehaven-exactly/page4
But I also echo Prices comments that [MENTION=48751]jiminyshiznit[/MENTION] probably has the most experience stoving around here, and I've tasted many of his tests. I'm sure he'll be along shortly...
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/481338-What-is-Stonehaven-exactly/page4
But I also echo Prices comments that [MENTION=48751]jiminyshiznit[/MENTION] probably has the most experience stoving around here, and I've tasted many of his tests. I'm sure he'll be along shortly...
Now I need to start smoking my Erinmore flake without nuking it in the microwave and see how it smokes. I've always dried it via microwave. Now I have something to look forward to tonight.
"heat will accelerate aging, but the aging and darkening will happen regardless - it just takes longer. Heat also changes the character of a tobacco. This isn't necessarily a bad thing."
"heat will accelerate aging, but the aging and darkening will happen regardless - it just takes longer. Heat also changes the character of a tobacco. This isn't necessarily a bad thing."
- Thread starter
- #9
Thanks [MENTION=53549]Hirsute[/MENTION] that sounds easy enough. I will definItely be trying that technique.
When I still smoked, I remember taking some Bulk McClelland No. 5100 Red Cake and stoving it.
I bought small widemouth canning jars in a 2 or 4oz size. I put the tobacco in the jar, put foil on the top of the jar, and then placed them in ~220 degree oven for about 2 hours. I then removed the jars and put the canning lids on them while they were still hot. This caused the jars to seal. I tried some of the stoved along side of the unstoved. The stoved was slightly more mellow and had a little bit of a deeper taste. Nothing amazing, but it was worth the experiment. I quit and passed the tobacco onto a friend before I ever tried the stuff that aged in the mason jars. My friend enjoyed it.
I bought small widemouth canning jars in a 2 or 4oz size. I put the tobacco in the jar, put foil on the top of the jar, and then placed them in ~220 degree oven for about 2 hours. I then removed the jars and put the canning lids on them while they were still hot. This caused the jars to seal. I tried some of the stoved along side of the unstoved. The stoved was slightly more mellow and had a little bit of a deeper taste. Nothing amazing, but it was worth the experiment. I quit and passed the tobacco onto a friend before I ever tried the stuff that aged in the mason jars. My friend enjoyed it.
The stoving I've done has been in a boiling water bath, which will give you somewhere just under 212° in the jar. I fill the pan so that the water is clean under the lid. The lid is screwed on, but not cranked tight, so pressure can escape but water can't get in. I've done most of mine for about 90 minutes. Once they cool, the lid should be sucked in, showing there's a vacuum in there. You'll usually notice a bit of condensation on the inside of the jar, which is why you'll want to leave it sealed for at least a week, so all the moisture can evenly make it's way back into the tobacco. I like the "canning" method because the temp is a constant, and it seems to be the right temp.
- Thread starter
- #13
Thanks [MENTION=48751]jiminyshiznit[/MENTION] ( I just wanted to type that name) looks like I'll be simmering some tobacco this weekend. I never thought I'd ever say that.
Thanks I've thought about this for some time as well.
To me the boiling makes the most sense because like you mentioned anything that exited the leaf makes its way back into it. Unlike baking tobacco in an oven. Thanks Shiznit!
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