Starting With A New Titan ACRM-2 T.H.60

[5whiskey]

I look forward to your comparison. I'm watching this with interest. Not because I'll become a convert to the Titan method... but I may recommend it to friends who want to get in cheap (I only have so many razors to give away)

 

[rbscebu]

I look forward to your comparison. I'm watching this with interest. Not because I'll become a convert to the Titan method... but I may recommend it to friends who want to get in cheap (I only have so many razors to give away)

I have about the same reason as you for wanting to try this out. It may be a good economical way for some to try out traditional SR shaving without having to find a suitable honemeister or learn how to hone before SR shaving.

So far, this Titan ACRM-2 T.H.60 kit is looking very promising.

 

[Mitzie]

I've just realized that my Brent Berekley SR is a Titan in disguise as this supplier re-markets existing products and badges them. (Take a look) -In fact the same leather/denim strop is also listed on their website. -If I had known this I could have saved £s' and purched off Aliexpress

 

[rbscebu]

I've just realized that my Brent Berekley SR is a Titan in disguise as this supplier re-markets existing products and badges them. (Take a look) -In fact the same leather/denim strop is also listed on their website. -If I had known this I could have saved £s' and purched off Aliexpress

No, the grind of the Brent Berekley Signature razor ($90) reminds me much more of a rebadged Gold Dollar, possibly one of their W series.

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The Brent Berekley stropping belt ($49) is manufactured by a Chinese firm that does not sell direct to the public. These strops are only available to retailers (including Titan) who often have their own logo stamped on the strop leather. It would appear that Titan sells these strops for the lowest price of about $13.50 including shipping.

 

[Seelector]

I think this is a fantastic experiment and I was really surprised that it gave a shave-ready edge. Sure, it took 800 laps, but I routinely do 50-60 laps on leather before each shave without blinking, so a one-time 800 lap session to start out isn't so crazy. That's a small price to pay for what looks like a fairly foolproof honing method for a beginner.

 

[rbscebu]

I think this is a fantastic experiment and I was really surprised that it gave a shave-ready edge. Sure, it took 800 laps, but I routinely do 50-60 laps on leather before each shave without blinking, so a one-time 800 lap session to start out isn't so crazy. That's a small price to pay for what looks like a fairly foolproof honing method for a beginner.

I was also surprised that by using only the supplied gear, a good to very good shave-ready edge could be produced from this blade's factory edge.

The only downside is that a beginner will need to fairly quickly develop a reasonably stropping technique without cutting up the one and only strop (denim) provided. I would also suggest that a SR shaving beginner order a second strop that comes as leather + demin ($13.50 including shipping).

The strops are 60mm wide. This is wide enough that dedicated X strokes are not required and narrow enough that cupping of the strop does not become a problem.

 

[rbscebu]

This morning's shave was was the final test for the CeOx pasted Titan ACRM-2 T.H.60 SR. I did a comparison shave between the two identical Titans, one with the CeOx edge (blue tail) and the other with a 1μm lapping film finished edge (clear tail).

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Normal prep and face-lathered with Palmolive Regular cream and Chinese synthetic brush, alternating sides of face with each of the three passes. Passes were WTG, XTG+CdM and XTG in opposite direction.

The results showed to me that both edges are very similar. The 1μm edge was noticeably keener when doing the CdM. Other than that, there was very little difference.

Overall I preferred shaving with the CeOx edge. Don't know why, maybe it was just a bit more comfortable.

I am now a firm believer that the Titan ACRM-2 T.H.60 SR kit (US$22 in March 2023 including worldwide shipping) is very suitable for a beginner on a budget. Using just the gear supplied in the kit, it would take the beginning about a half to one hour to get the blade's factory edge to a very good quality shave-ready standard. The same gear should be sufficient to last the beginner for well over 100 shaves before the blade would need refreshing on a whetstone(s) or films.

I will now keep the blue-tail in my rotation and maintained only on the CeOx pasted strop until I feel that it needs its edge refreshed. That could take a few years as on average each of my SRs get used about once a month.

Tomorrow I will return to working through my SR rotation. The other SRs are probably getting jealous and may bite me for neglecting them.

Thank you to all who have followed me on this journey over the past week.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I'd be curious to know whether the Cerium Oxide stropping would improve an already shave-ready razor, say coming off of 1um film or the equivalent.

 

[rbscebu]

I'd be curious to know whether the Cerium Oxide stropping would improve an already shave-ready razor, say coming off of 1um film or the equivalent.

Try it and see what you find. With no proof, I would say that it may or may not improve it a bit. It would depend on the steel of the SR. There is still the well known problem of wasted edges generated and/or maintained on a pasted hanging strop will eventually convex the bevel enough to where the blade needs a refresh honing.

I am not saying that CeOx paste is any better or worse than FeOx or CrOx pastes as I have no experience with either.

 

[rbscebu]

.... There is still the well known problem that stropping an edge that has been generated and/or maintained on a pasted hanging strop will eventually convex the bevel enough to where the blade needs a refresh honing. ....

Correction

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Try it and see what you find.

Well, I'm not *that* curious .

 

[JPO]

I'd be curious to know whether the Cerium Oxide stropping would improve an already shave-ready razor, say coming off of 1um film or the equivalent.

In my opinion the only thing you do is to increase the comfort, at the expense of the sharpness. According to a blog i am not allowed to reference to, the bevel angle behind the apex can change as much as 8 deg from pasted stropping over time. On a hard backed surface or balsa you are looking at 2-4 deg change.
Just try adding 4 layers of tape to a razor and see what that feels like. It will probably not be a good shave, even if you finish it to 30k.
Geometry is key in my opinion. After around 5-6k the razor does not get that much sharper (the edge width does not change much), but we change the comfort level by refining the apex and bevel.
We also change the cutting efficiency by adding texture from e.g. a natural stones. A coticule edge, even if there is some convexity behind the edge can cut effortless because of the fingerprint added to the apex by the garnets.

 

[rbscebu]

In my opinion the only thing you do is to increase the comfort, at the expense of the sharpness. ....

I agree with you that it is generally a balancing act between comfort and sharpness. Each person, over time, needs to find that balance that best suits him or her and their shaving technique. My technique has developed such that I much prefer a keen edge over a more comfortable edge.

As I have previously stated in this thread, stropping on a pasted hanging strop will eventually tend to round the edge such that the edge will need refreshing on a solid honing surface.

The purpose of the assessment in this thread was to only determine if just using the gear supplied in the kit would be sufficient for a beginner to put a reasonably good shave-ready edge on the SR from the factory supplied edge. I have satisfied myself that indeed this can be done.

 

[JPO]

I agree with you that it is generally a balancing act between comfort and sharpness. Each person, over time, needs to find that balance that best suits him or her and their shaving technique. My technique has developed such that I much prefer a keen edge over a more comfortable edge.

As I have previously stated in this thread, stropping on a pasted hanging strop will eventually tend to round the edge such that the edge will need refreshing on a solid honing surface.

The purpose of the assessment in this thread was to only determine if just using the gear supplied in the kit would be sufficient for a beginner to put a reasonably good shave-ready edge on the SR from the factory supplied edge. I have satisfied myself that indeed this can be done.

I understand. It was not my intention to derail the thread. At some point the edge will platau. For someone with a light beard growth that might be a really nice edge, and an easy way to maintain it, for a long time.
It is really nice to have a simple and budget friendly entry point to straight razor shaving.

Interesting experiment.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I guess I should have been more clear. I am curious about the relative aggressiveness and fineness of the specific abrasive, not the mechanics of pasted stropping. 15 laps would tell you a lot and wouldn't change the bevel geometry enough to matter in the short term.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Years ago, I and a few others, stropped the same razor on a hanging Chromium Oxide strop daily and shaved with that razor for a year. My razor was finished on a 12k Super Stone.

The Chrome Oxide did improve keenness a bit, but also comfort. The Chrome Oxide removed all the stria to a mirror finish after a week or so and maintained the edge to the same comfortable shaving level for a year.

After a year of daily stropping the razor shaved the same as after a week or so. No damage to the edge and bevel and no appreciable wear.

All, the test group had identical results.

Did the edge convex? Yes, but stropping on a hanging strop, a pasted paddle, even a stone will convex an edge. It is well documented. A convex edge is not a bad thing, it is a stronger edge.

If an edge stops shaving, (doubtful) because of a pasted hanging strop, it is technique and not the strop or paste.

Here are a couple of micrographs, taken by Tim Zowada years ago of one of his Timahagane test razors, (64 RHC) stropped on flax linen, (no paste), 40 laps post Shinden Asagi honing.

Note the bulk of stria is removed, at and refined edge after 40 laps, (Photo 2). The photo sample size is the width of one of his beard hairs Photo 3.

While Chrome Oxide can improve an edge, there are better options.

 

[Bevel]

and a 4g block of rare-earth cerium stropping paste.

Is that what that stuff is. I have a Titan that I never use and it came with that kit you list. I presumed the paste was garbage so never used it although I still have it. It's like a small rectangle of dodgy looking chocolate. My Titan is a VG-10HZ but it was a lot more than $22, at least 3 times that if I remember correctly.

I am not saying that CeOx paste is any better or worse than FeOx or CrOx pastes as I have no experience with either.

FeOx is 0.1Um or about 200k grit, CrOx is about 0.5Um or 60k. I realize this looks weird mathematically but it's info I've taken from various sources over the years and, while I think the FeOx is right, I've heard there are several versions of CrOx and that is a rabbit hole I'm not willing to go down.
What is the Um of Cerium if you know?

For the record CrOx, at least the version I have, is very good. I make my own. (Not the actual CrOx but the crayons/blocks)
Sharp, smooth and fairly forgiving. Not unlike a high grit synthetic.
FeOx can create an edge that is too sharp and is similar to films beyond 1Um like the 0.3 or 0.05. A few, as in no more that 10, extreamly light laps is ok but I once did about 50 and it nearly took the face off me.

 

[rbscebu]

@Bevel, I have not had success at honing and shaving with the Titan VG-10HZ. I found its edge to be rather "toothy". Maybe it was my honing style but I just could not get it to work. Titan's other two steels, the ACRM-2 and the ACRO stainless steel (both T.H.64 and T.H-70) will all take a great edge. The ACRO does need to be honed with a lot more care to get that result but once achieved it holds up better than all my other SRs.

As for the μm rating of their CeOx paste, I have no idea. All I can say is that with the ACRM-2 steel it can produce a very acceptable shave-ready edge, similar to what I can get off 1μm lapping film or 0.5μm diamond pasted balsa.

I have yet to produce an edge that is too sharp for my shaving technique.

 

[rbscebu]

For the next 9 days, Wednesday (today) to Friday next week inclusive, I will be shaving with the CeOx finished Titan. Before each shave, this blade gets 50 laps on the original CeOx pasted denim strop (no additional paste) and after each shave another 10 laps on same to clean the bevel.

This morning's shave
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I enjoy shaving with this SR. Sure, it is not as keen as others when performing a CdM, but other than that, I find it very comfortable to shave with and it is giving me my normal DFS+ results. My shaves are three passes; WTG, XTG+CdM and XTG opposite direction.

Next week (Friday to Sunday) I will do some comparison shave with this CeOx blade and three other identical Titan ACRM-2 T.H.60 SRs, each finished on; 1μm film, hard black Arkansas and diamond pasted balsa strop.

Will report back in this thread.

 

[Timeclo]

I got interested in this setup so I got one just to try it out.

Everything came in one piece. The razor seems fine to the eyes. The blade seems a bit smaller than what I imagined but it could be that the scale is pretty chunky. There seems to some kind of bevel on the edge but it is not cutting well towards the toe. Most of the edge was cutting hair except for the toe.

I'll be trying out the paste and do numerous laps on the strop and see if I can get a shaveable edge.