Speick, Cella, Palmolive - drying out on me. TOBS too foamy

[TheBeast]

So I'm currently in a phase of buying and testing soaps/creams because I have trouble keeping them wet on my face. I shave slowly, it takes a few minutes for a single pass, I have troubles with irritation and bumps. I palm lather, adding water very slowly. Bowl lathering doesn't work for me, I can't beat out all the bubbles and I love dense, shiny, thick lather that's veeery hydrated, sometimes I add water until it starts dripping down the brush. It's my ideal lather, very slick but gives a little "cushion" effect.

Speick and Palmolive - lathers how I love it, keeps absorbing water while staying dense and shiny. But it dries out! A minute or two after applying, the edges of where the lather is applied on the face are no longer shiny and start to get flaky, like it's been sitting there for half an hour. Do you experience this as well? Proraso pre-shave cream and TOBS oil do not help much.

Cella - I guess this one is similar to Arko? In a sense of being an old-school type of lather. Not particulary dense and shiny but more foamy and light. Is that how it's supposed to be?

TOBS tobacco leaf - I can't get this thing to lather, is it similar to Arko and Cella and does it prefer to stay foamy? Or can you get it dense and shiny?

My favourites are Stirling and Proraso. Saponificio Varesino and Tabac are very good as well. But I'm reacting to something in those soaps and if the shaves takes too long they sting. MWF stings after a while as well but holy moly is that one slick and does not want to rinse out. I'll be trying Stirling Unscented beeswax and Haslinger next.

 

[silverlifter]

Speick works fantastically for me. Load more onto your face (I am assuming the stick), and as you scrub it in, keep adding water to the tips of your brush. It holds a lot of water.

 

[TheBeast]

Speick works fantastically for me. Load more onto your face (I am assuming the stick), and as you scrub it in, keep adding water to the tips of your brush. It holds a lot of water.

It does hold a lot, which I love. But Stirling or SV stays wet on the face without drying.

I'm using the cream, the Stick is still sealed. I tried using twice as much as I normally do. Twice as much lather but drying just the same.

 

[rudygu]

I also like a more wet, slick lather and enjoy Stirling soap. Recently I’ve been trying the unscented beeswax and would say it’s noticeably more slick without drying for me.

 

[Alp Akman]

Keep you away from high coconut oil/palm oil containing soaps to avoid drying out.

 

[sarimento1]

So I'm currently in a phase of buying and testing soaps/creams because I have trouble keeping them wet on my face. I shave slowly, it takes a few minutes for a single pass, I have troubles with irritation and bumps. I palm lather, adding water very slowly. Bowl lathering doesn't work for me, I can't beat out all the bubbles and I love dense, shiny, thick lather that's veeery hydrated, sometimes I add water until it starts dripping down the brush. It's my ideal lather, very slick but gives a little "cushion" effect.

Speick and Palmolive - lathers how I love it, keeps absorbing water while staying dense and shiny. But it dries out! A minute or two after applying, the edges of where the lather is applied on the face are no longer shiny and start to get flaky, like it's been sitting there for half an hour. Do you experience this as well? Proraso pre-shave cream and TOBS oil do not help much.

Cella - I guess this one is similar to Arko? In a sense of being an old-school type of lather. Not particulary dense and shiny but more foamy and light. Is that how it's supposed to be?

TOBS tobacco leaf - I can't get this thing to lather, is it similar to Arko and Cella and does it prefer to stay foamy? Or can you get it dense and shiny?

My favourites are Stirling and Proraso. Saponificio Varesino and Tabac are very good as well. But I'm reacting to something in those soaps and if the shaves takes too long they sting. MWF stings after a while as well but holy moly is that one slick and does not want to rinse out. I'll be trying Stirling Unscented beeswax and Haslinger next.

Sir TheBeast, thanks for sharing your experiences!
For me, those shave soaps (Speick, Palmolive, TOBS, Cella) all perform great; each is a "classic".
I'll encounter drying on many soaps/creams, and I solve simply by brushing on a little water with the brush.
The lather re-hydrates and continues to shave well.
But, YMMV, and I understand!

 

[cvac]

An old trick for slow shaving is to only lather one part of the face at a time. You can keep the brush and lather warm in a scuttle with hot water in the chamber. If the later starts to dry in the scuttle you add tiny amounts of water and mix it up. Very easy.

Many soaps and creams are not meant to left on the face for a long time.

Not medical advice but usually, IME, if a cream or soap is going to cause a skin reaction the tingle starts almost immediately, before any shaving is involved. When that happens (rarely over the years across ~50 different products) with a product I immediately wash it off and use something else. If the reaction was bad then I skip shaving for the day.

No offense but some of what you are describing sounds like user error or potentially a hard water issue. Shaving very slowly will make things more difficult as well. I ran into that problem during my ill-fated dalliance with straight razors.

However, it also sounds like some products may not be compatible with your skin or the way you like to lather and shave. Nothing to do about that but use other products.

 

[TheBeast]

An old trick for slow shaving is to only lather one part of the face at a time. You can keep the brush and lather warm in a scuttle with hot water in the chamber. If the later starts to dry in the scuttle you add tiny amounts of water and mix it up. Very easy.

Many soaps and creams are not meant to left on the face for a long time.

Not medical advice but usually, IME, if a cream or soap is going to cause a skin reaction the tingle starts almost immediately, before any shaving is involved. When that happens (rarely over the years across ~50 different products) with a product I immediately wash it off and use something else. If the reaction was bad then I skip shaving for the day.

No offense but some of what you are describing sounds like user error or potentially a hard water issue. Shaving very slowly will make things more difficult as well. I ran into that problem during my ill-fated dalliance with straight razors.

However, it also sounds like some products may not be compatible with your skin or the way you like to lather and shave. Nothing to do about that but use other products.

Good points. I also suspect that my skin gets really dry after a warm shower, before applying a cream. So it soaks up moisture from the lather.

Leaving the bathroom steamy and using Proraso red helped. I don't know if it's the shea butter or the sandalwood oil that helps. But the soap didn't dry and the shave was great.

And I am using a straight razor, but I'm not particulary efficient in using one. If I rush it, it's not a good shave. If I get everything spot on, it's close to perfect. Its the consistency that I lack, and a bit of confidence and tempo. But safety razors will still leave me with bumps 95% of the time.

The water is definitelly hard.

 

[cvac]

Good points. I also suspect that my skin gets really dry after a warm shower, before applying a cream. So it soaks up moisture from the lather.

Leaving the bathroom steamy and using Proraso red helped. I don't know if it's the shea butter or the sandalwood oil that helps. But the soap didn't dry and the shave was great.

And I am using a straight razor, but I'm not particulary efficient in using one. If I rush it, it's not a good shave. If I get everything spot on, it's close to perfect. Its the consistency that I lack, and a bit of confidence and tempo. But safety razors will still leave me with bumps 95% of the time.

The water is definitelly hard.

I doubt the PR contains anything more than very miniscule amounts of those components.

If a particular product works better for you though, no reason to hassle with products that are difficult to use.

Lots of variables with straights, moreso than with common DE razors and blades.

Hard water may make lathering certain soaps and creams more difficult.

 

[SalS]

So I'm currently in a phase of buying and testing soaps/creams because I have trouble keeping them wet on my face. I shave slowly, it takes a few minutes for a single pass, I have troubles with irritation and bumps. I palm lather, adding water very slowly. Bowl lathering doesn't work for me, I can't beat out all the bubbles and I love dense, shiny, thick lather that's veeery hydrated, sometimes I add water until it starts dripping down the brush. It's my ideal lather, very slick but gives a little "cushion" effect.

Speick and Palmolive - lathers how I love it, keeps absorbing water while staying dense and shiny. But it dries out! A minute or two after applying, the edges of where the lather is applied on the face are no longer shiny and start to get flaky, like it's been sitting there for half an hour. Do you experience this as well? Proraso pre-shave cream and TOBS oil do not help much.

Cella - I guess this one is similar to Arko? In a sense of being an old-school type of lather. Not particulary dense and shiny but more foamy and light. Is that how it's supposed to be?

TOBS tobacco leaf - I can't get this thing to lather, is it similar to Arko and Cella and does it prefer to stay foamy? Or can you get it dense and shiny?

My favourites are Stirling and Proraso. Saponificio Varesino and Tabac are very good as well. But I'm reacting to something in those soaps and if the shaves takes too long they sting. MWF stings after a while as well but holy moly is that one slick and does not want to rinse out. I'll be trying Stirling Unscented beeswax and Haslinger next.

Try Jack Black Beard Lube and Jack Black Supreme Cream alone or Beard Lube under. They have high oil content so water is not a major component of how they work. Having used virtually everything in over 40 years of shaving, nothing can compare to these products. Cremo is also very good. The traditional stuff is obsolete.

Since you are using a straight razor, seeing what you are shaving is important so that’s why you might like the JB products. They are made to be used skinny.

 

[JimmyCB]

Try a good pre shave lotion or soap. I use either Proraso pre shave lotion or Razor Emporium pre shave soap and they make a big difference by keeping shave soap from drying out on my face. As always, YMMV.

 

[NorthernSoul]

Speick cream and soap work well for me. I face lather with them. If your lather is drying out, maybe do one section at a time. Use the brush as a kind of lather reservoir. Lather can be rejuvenated by adding small amounts of water using the brush.

Cella lather should be slick and glossy, not fluffy. It's been around for ages, so it's a proven product. The usual problem is some people are sensitive to the fragrance.

 

[jbhunt04]

I find Cella to have less cushion than Arko, but still Govea me a pretty good shave. Man does it whip up an awesome lather in a bowl. Arko puck soap fits perfect in my Old Spice mug and makes a good lather too, with a tad more cushion.

 

[cymric]

... I have troubles with irritation and bumps. ...

That means the lather is either too concentrated, causing friction between blade and skin; or the lather is too thin, meaning it offers zero protection and/or glide. Also, the blade can be dull or fresh out of the package. But I assume you are comparing using a 'broken in' blade in all occasions.

Bowl lathering doesn't work for me, I can't beat out all the bubbles and I love dense, shiny, thick lather that's veeery hydrated, sometimes I add water until it starts dripping down the brush. It's my ideal lather, very slick but gives a little "cushion" effect.

Bowl lathering is really no different from palm or face lathering. The workhorse of all situations are the hairs of the brush, and those do not change.

As I suspected, your lather is ... well, horrible. You are basically shaving with foamed water, explaining the irritation and bumps. You may think it's very slick and giving a little cushion, but you're sampling this between your fingers. Your fingers are not the edge of a blade resting against your skin. Try creating the following consistency, in a bowl at first so you know what to look out for: when pulling out the brush of a heap of lather, it should create a thinning band which breaks, then gently droops over. Your lather will do that too, but you need to arrive at this consistency using as little water as possible. Try and shave with that.

Speick and Palmolive - lathers how I love it, keeps absorbing water while staying dense and shiny. But it dries out!

That's what happens if it is mostly wet foam. There's too few soap molecules in there which are able to hold on to the air bubbles, so these coalesce, leaving behind a thin film of dry soapy residue. I repeat, all signs point to you using way too much water. Nothing you add will stabilise this mess: either use more soap, or less water. Or scroll to the bottom for a secret ingredient which might help if you insist on using watery lathers for whatever reason.

A minute or two after applying, the edges of where the lather is applied on the face are no longer shiny and start to get flaky, like it's been sitting there for half an hour. Do you experience this as well? Proraso pre-shave cream and TOBS oil do not help much.

My lathers are stable for an hour or two at the very least. The reason: many soap molecules envelop air bubbles which become trapped. Eventually the air will leak out of the mix, but it certainly won't happen on a scale of minutes.

Cella - I guess this one is similar to Arko? In a sense of being an old-school type of lather. Not particulary dense and shiny but more foamy and light. Is that how it's supposed to be?

Definitely not. Cella is rich in stearic acid, a very heavy fatty acid. Lathers from this product take on a decidedly creamy texture because of it.

My favourites are Stirling and Proraso. Saponificio Varesino and Tabac are very good as well. But I'm reacting to something in those soaps and if the shaves takes too long they sting. MWF stings after a while as well but holy moly is that one slick and does not want to rinse out. I'll be trying Stirling Unscented beeswax and Haslinger next.

Indeed they sting if you insist on using watery foam for a lather! Your first pass irritates the skin because you're cutting and scraping yourself; and the second pass / lathering just makes it worse. All these soaps and creams you are buying... stop doing that, and fix your lather first.

From your description I can tell you're not using MWF in the correct way. Unless I miss my guess, your MWF lather is very 'crisp'. Using that will cause the sensation of not wanting to rinse out. If you add more water to MWF, it will transition through a stage of soft yet firm pillowness to the dripping messes you are so fond of. Because of MWFs formulation that pillow-stage is actually much wetter compared to normal soaps... it just doesn't look that way. Given that you want lots of water (or think you do), this is the secret I alluded to above.

Good luck.

 

[TheBeast]

That means the lather is either too concentrated, causing friction between blade and skin; or the lather is too thin, meaning it offers zero protection and/or glide. Also, the blade can be dull or fresh out of the package. But I assume you are comparing using a 'broken in' blade in all occasions.



Bowl lathering is really no different from palm or face lathering. The workhorse of all situations are the hairs of the brush, and those do not change.

As I suspected, your lather is ... well, horrible. You are basically shaving with foamed water, explaining the irritation and bumps. You may think it's very slick and giving a little cushion, but you're sampling this between your fingers. Your fingers are not the edge of a blade resting against your skin. Try creating the following consistency, in a bowl at first so you know what to look out for: when pulling out the brush of a heap of lather, it should create a thinning band which breaks, then gently droops over. Your lather will do that too, but you need to arrive at this consistency using as little water as possible. Try and shave with that.



That's what happens if it is mostly wet foam. There's too few soap molecules in there which are able to hold on to the air bubbles, so these coalesce, leaving behind a thin film of dry soapy residue. I repeat, all signs point to you using way too much water. Nothing you add will stabilise this mess: either use more soap, or less water. Or scroll to the bottom for a secret ingredient which might help if you insist on using watery lathers for whatever reason.



My lathers are stable for an hour or two at the very least. The reason: many soap molecules envelop air bubbles which become trapped. Eventually the air will leak out of the mix, but it certainly won't happen on a scale of minutes.



Definitely not. Cella is rich in stearic acid, a very heavy fatty acid. Lathers from this product take on a decidedly creamy texture because of it.



Indeed they sting if you insist on using watery foam for a lather! Your first pass irritates the skin because you're cutting and scraping yourself; and the second pass / lathering just makes it worse. All these soaps and creams you are buying... stop doing that, and fix your lather first.

From your description I can tell you're not using MWF in the correct way. Unless I miss my guess, your MWF lather is very 'crisp'. Using that will cause the sensation of not wanting to rinse out. If you add more water to MWF, it will transition through a stage of soft yet firm pillowness to the dripping messes you are so fond of. Because of MWFs formulation that pillow-stage is actually much wetter compared to normal soaps... it just doesn't look that way. Given that you want lots of water (or think you do), this is the secret I alluded to above.

Good luck.

Well, I appreciate your response and willingness to help. But unfortunatelly, you missed. The days where I used wet foam for "lather" are long gone. My lather is far from horrible, I'm happy to report! I load more soap than needed, work the lather a little extra and add water slowly, until I have my perfect mix. My perfect lather is quite dense and hydrated until shiny, from there it is only painted on the face while adding a drop of water more frequently so that it keeps its hydration and improves glide while becoming slightly thinner. If it's whipped into a greek yoghurt, it's cool, but not helpful. I have some pics somewhere if you'd like I tried lots of different consistencies and water/soap ratios. I stick with the one I liked the most.

And yes, the lather inside the brush will stay stable, no problem. But I dare you to try lather up your face, go sit on the couch for an hour and tell me if it dries. I bet it will And that was my problem.

I solved my problem by shaving faster. Once I am done with one side of my face, in about 1-2 minutes, I then dip the brush in water again, rehydrate the second side and voila - problem solved. You were right in the sense that the soap is not the problem.

Another factor that played a big role was that before shaving, I would use a salycilic acid facewash that was too drying for my delicate skin - which resulted in sucking up moisture and being irritated even before shaving - and you guessed it, stinging. Now I use hydrating CeraVe so my skin does not want to absorb that much hydration. Next fix was to not air out the bathroom after a shower. I just wipe the mirror and keep the humidity - helps wonders.

But you did underline some great tips. It took me a solid part of a year when I first started to make decent lather. My first few months I used a foamy nonsense to shave. All my other problems are far more influenced by the state of my SR's edge, overall skin condition and how stable my hands are that day.