Shoulder Versus Stabilizer

[Frank Shaves]

What is the difference between the shoulder and the stabilizer of a straight razor - if in fact there is a difference?

Is the bit in the red rectangle the stabilizer and the bit in blue the shoulder?

And why do people buy GD 66s and remove the stabilizer if they could just buy a GD P81/1996 without a stabilizer?

 

[global_dev]

For me, when i bought the 66s, the p81/1996s didnt exist. And the others like the 208, 800 , etc werent as readily available as cheaply.

the 66s were just a base to mess around with in every way without feeling too bad.

stabilizer is in red box and older models it would get in the way of honing. Sometimes the shoulder gets in the way also if you are honing on a bias or it’s too far forward.

 

[Frank Shaves]

Thanks, @global_dev. Is the shoulder the bit in the blue box?

 

[SliceOfLife]

They're grinding the shoulders out on 66's now... but it's clearly a rush job of a few seconds... so results vary. Of the 5 I got, I would say that the shoulder was not an immediate problem on two or three, but they hadn't ground it enough on the remaining 2-3. And even on the ones they had gotten it out of the way on, it was still there, just pushed back... so eventually it'd need to be dealt with.

4 of them are on loan atm, but here's the fifth. As you can see, they ground it WAY back, but it's still there making the heel dozens of times thicker than the toe (which was actually hollowed during grinding, not "fixed" with a rushed job after)... So while this does make putting an initial edge on much easier... it's still going to leave the razor behaving during future honing like a vintage does after it's worn down into the heel... meaning if you don't actively "fix" the heel regularly, there will be that hang-nail/hook forming at the heel after a lot of honing.

 

[Slash McCoy]

The 66 is iconic. Everybody knows it. It is familiar. And it is cheap. You can find these for $4 or so, free shipping from China, minimum order ONE. The P81 is not as well known, and there is model name confusion because of the tang etch and the apparent disregard by the company to the confusion they have created. Resellers seem to think they are made of gold or something, though the factory price is only a dollar more as I recall. I see them sold unhoned for $12 or more for one. Realistically it should sell unhoned NIB for only a couple bucks more than the 66, IYAM. So more guys buy the 66 and more are stuck with it and find it is not as simple to hone as they had assumed. To make matters worse, newbies buy these to practice their honing on, before they have learned to hone. So they find themselves in the situation of having a razor that they can't seem to hone properly, and the heel fix makes it much more do-able.

Sooner or later a Chinese reseller will list the P81 on fleabay for $6/each or even less, and they will steal all the thunder away from the 66. As you pointed out, there is no stabilizer to worry about.

What is the difference between the shoulder and the stabilizer of a straight razor - if in fact there is a difference?

Is the bit in the red rectangle the stabilizer and the bit in blue the shoulder?

And why do people buy GD 66s and remove the stabilizer if they could just buy a GD P81/1996 without a stabilizer?

View attachment 1173026

The 66 is iconic. Everybody knows it. It is familiar. And it is cheap. You can find these for $4 or so, free shipping from China, minimum order ONE. The P81 is not as well known, and there is model name confusion because of the tang etch and the apparent disregard by the company to the confusion they have created. Resellers seem to think they are made of gold or something, though the factory price is only a dollar more as I recall. I see them sold unhoned for $12 or more for one. Realistically it should sell unhoned NIB for only a couple bucks more than the 66, IYAM. So more guys buy the 66 and more are stuck with it and find it is not as simple to hone as they had assumed. To make matters worse, newbies buy these to practice their honing on, before they have learned to hone. So they find themselves in the situation of having a razor that they can't seem to hone properly, and the heel fix makes it much more do-able.

Sooner or later a Chinese reseller will list the P81 on fleabay for $6/each or even less, and they will steal all the thunder away from the 66. As you pointed out, there is no stabilizer to worry about. It IS getting popular, make no mistake about that. It is a market changer, but changing the market slowly in the face of the known to one and all GD66.

 

[Slash McCoy]

What is the difference between the shoulder and the stabilizer of a straight razor - if in fact there is a difference?

Is the bit in the red rectangle the stabilizer and the bit in blue the shoulder?

And why do people buy GD 66s and remove the stabilizer if they could just buy a GD P81/1996 without a stabilizer?

View attachment 1173026

Oh yeah and to answer your first two questions,

1. Yeah they are two different things though often the terms are used imprecisely and interchangeably.
2. Yup that's right. But you can also say that the shoulder is also any part of the stabilizer that will butt up against the side of a stone when you slide the razor onto it from the side, along with the abrupt end of the shank where the blade begins.

 

[stone and strop]

What is the difference between the shoulder and the stabilizer of a straight razor - if in fact there is a difference?

Is the bit in the red rectangle the stabilizer and the bit in blue the shoulder?

And why do people buy GD 66s and remove the stabilizer if they could just buy a GD P81/1996 without a stabilizer?

View attachment 1173026

The shoulder is where the grind stops and it becomes thicker.
It is the shoulder of the grind.
To me they are one and the same. The thicker step where the shoulder ends stabilizes the thin blade. Stiffer.

There is no mention of a "stabilizer" in this Barbering textbook from 1950
Shoulder, one and the same.

 

[Frank Shaves]

I think I now get it - thanks, all!

Funny that you cite the barbering textbook, @stone and strop. One of the guys where I get my hair cut was telling me about how he was taught to use and hone a straight in barber school. I will have to ask him if they used a book.

And I see that TI uses the term stabilizer. Now I know .

 

[global_dev]

Thanks, @global_dev. Is the shoulder the bit in the blue box?

yes, to me concerning the area on the shank (some call it a tang and some call the tang a tail) from the top of the grind to the heel - I would describe the blue as the Shoulder and the red is the Stabilizer which yes, if I understand from genpop and patent info is to stiffen the hollow.

The shoulder is where the grind stops and it becomes thicker. It is the shoulder of the grind.
To me they are one and the same. The thicker step where the shoulder ends stabilizes the thin blade. Stiffer.

There is no mention of a "stabilizer" in this Barbering textbook from 1950
Shoulder, one and the same.

Hadn't seen that the Barbering text book (195) , looks like a good read. I don't know anyone uses the terminology Head though, do they? I can't recall what anyone uses to describe that part.

To my mind, so we can more easily discuss, the current parlance of the grind shoulder that is not hollowed like the hollow is to call it a stabilizer (if it exists), and to distinguish between types of "shoulders" is to refer to them as of type single or double or in the absence of such stabilizers , so as to call them shoulderless. but if I refer to a stabilizer, then it follows it's a part of the shoulder, but if someone asked about "the" shoulder, I would need to describe it further as single, double, or no stabilizer and add the extra question, and while I am no efficiency expert, it makes me believe its a good thing to not have to ask the second question since the existence implies it. I I know by textbook def'n I am wrong, but the curious thing about shoulders to me is that on a "shoulderless" like a Bismarck, the feature is that a shoulder type thing kind of exists but inset into the shank more.

I'm not sure why this an issue as long as everyone understands what we are discussing. not the biggest deal imho.

I guess If I was vendor ordering from the manufacturer, I'd have to understand the different aspects of what shoulder type I was ordering... shoulder w/ no stabilizer, 1 stabilizer, double stabilizer, or some other variant of the grind.

I have seen some pictures that also refer to this as single or double shoulder, but I feel like I have razors with shoulders that or neither of those 2 and also not shoulderless.

 

[stone and strop]

but the curious thing about shoulders to me is that on a "shoulderless" like a Bismarck, the feature is that a shoulder type thing kind of exists but inset into the shank more.

On a shoulderless grind the end of the grind sweeps up smoothly. Hence shoulderless.
A shoulder implies a lip or hard line.

The textbook I use is the same one my own Barber used in Barber school in the 50's. I base all information given in it as true and accurate as it was specific to training Barbers at that time.
Stabilizer is more of a modern term IMO but they are the same thing.

 

[global_dev]

i get the definition and understand, but the transition i am describing still exists but off the plane of the blade right under the 346

 

[ajduplessis]

The French also refer to the point as a nose. I did not know that until I got a TI.

 

[stone and strop]

View attachment 1173154

i get the definition and understand, but the transition i am describing still exists but off the plane of the blade right under the 346

Where it terminates on that one it is a slope, an upswept grind, not a hard transition/step/shoulder.
Even if it was a hard transition/step with a lip, it is not a stabilizer as it has no affect on the blade itself - it stabilizes nothing.
It is into the shank.

Nice Dorko by the way!

 

[global_dev]

Where it terminates on that one it is a slope, an upswept grind, not a hard transition/step/shoulder.
Even if it was a hard transition/step with a lip, it is not a stabilizer as it has no affect on the blade itself - it stabilizes nothing.
It is into the shank.

Nice Dorko by the way!

like i said, I understand the definition and practical...just the way i think of a shoulder in my own head.

unfortunately not my dorko, all of my dorkos are not that clean.