second round honing

[Hunter Bock]

When bevel setting do you stay on one side for multiple strokes or alternate each stroke?

 

[seattleshaver]

Five hundred strokes seems excessive to me.

 

[stone and strop]

When bevel setting do you stay on one side for multiple strokes or alternate each stroke?

For simplicity, alternate. You won't end up with a burr unless you are being heavy handed, even then it is difficult when alternating.
When trying to remove a lot of material sometimes I may go 10 or so per side but you always need to finish alternating so just stick to alternating for now.
You have already done far too many strokes on that thing, It shouldn't take too long on the 1k now.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Five hundred strokes seems excessive to me.

Depends on the razor, on the honing media, and the person doing the honing. A "good" razor seldom needs even half that. But when the other shoe drops...

 

[Slash McCoy]

Is alternating each stroke on a 1K bevel setting or just honing -- one Youtube honer says 40 reps each side using small circular strokes, then standard X honing alternating each stroke. Sound correct?

Or does bevel setting mean alternating each stroke as in honing, but with more pressure?

Thx.

Depends. 40 strokes isn't very much, on a 1k, raising a burr on a badly battered razor or on many brand new razors. Also, remember the lap count isn't what matters. You go until you have proof that you got it.

Setting the bevel calls for more pressure than the rest of the progression. BTW, setting the bevel IS part of honing. In fact, it is the MAIN part of honing, the MOST IMPORTANT part of honing. Typically I use the full weight of my arm when raising a burr on each side, then the weight of my hand when honing the burr off, using alternating laps, and gradually diminishing pressure.

What setting the bevel is, is removing steel in a controlled manner until the surface of the remaining steel at and near the edge is dead flat and true, and this plane intersects with the opposite one on the other side, and that intersection forms the edge. The angle of the intersection is the bevel angle. When the two planes have an intersection out beyond the edge of the blade, the bevel is not set. You keep removing steel in the same controlled manner until the two bevel faces meet. This must be true along the entire edge. Setting the bevel is not the name of a particular honing technique or style. It establishes the bevel and therefore, the edge. The bevel IS the edge and without a bevel, you have no true edge, only a thin and ragged perimeter that will never shave in a satisfactory manner no matter how shiney you make it with uber-fine ultra stones made of pure unobtanite.

Only after you have set the bevel and proven that the bevel is set, do you start progressing up the grits toward the finish. It does you absolutely zero good, absolutely no benefit at all, it is an absolute total complete waste of time, stone or film, and razor steel, to proceed without positively absolutely knowing that the bevel is set. This does not mean after 17 hours the bevel is set and you can move up to your 39k preciousite and get a good edge. No. It does not mean after 10,000 laps you are good to go, and the honing gods will bless you with a miraculous edge that will eternally shave once and forever a baby in the womb by simply waving it over the mother's head. It certainly does not mean since you are bored with that bevel setting business, it is time to get on with it and finish sharpening the razor. No, you must demonstrate to yourself in one way or another that the bevel is set. Your razor is doomed to dullness without a bevel and if you don't know you have a bevel, let's just say you probably don't and you will fail fail fail.

Understand the bevel.
Know the bevel.
Set the bevel.
Prove the bevel.

Only then can you polish the bevel to a proper shaving edge. There is only do, or not do. Snatch the pebble from my hand...

 

[Hunter Bock]

Pretty sure the bevel is set on the Clover: passed the tomato and the arm hair test. For now no more 1K stuff. Have a 8K & 10K stone, lapping film above that. Currently I'm pondering the point from stone to strop. Are we talking 100 stone reps or less? Ditto for strops?

Thanks guys.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Don't count laps. Look for the feedback. You SHOULD have something to bridge the gap between 1k and 8k. Wanna do it with the 8k? Fine. Gonna take a lot of rubbing. How many laps? As many as it takes. At the 8k level you should get very good stiction. When you get stiction and it increases and finally stops increasing, stop. By then, your pressure should be only the weight of the razor. Hone in hand, not on a bench. Old pros can hone on a bench or a sink bridge or whatever. They have the experience and the knowledge that goes beyond just words in a post. You don't, and you will mess up if you bench hone. Trust me. You will get it eventually, but why wait for eventually? Okay, so you don't want to wait for a 4k. Okay, go on the 8k until you get stiction and finally it stops increasing. Stop. Do this. Go a few dozen VERY light laps, as light as you can manage, using short x strokes, maybe 4" long. Be very careful not to slap the razor on the hone. Now strop and shave. That is almost as good as it gets, for your first edge, from an 8k.

Oh BTW you must lap your stones first. Not an option. Don't even in your wildest dreams, think that you can do this with stones that "look flat to me".

 

[bluesman 7]

Then honing stones 3K, 6K, 8K & 12K.

You SHOULD have something to bridge the gap between 1k and 8k.

Hunter has stones between the 1k and 8k, he just didn't mention them in the post #26.

 

[Hunter Bock]

Yep. I got stones . Think there's an end of the tunnel light for the Clover. Beveling/honing is very much an individual journey.

The Oxford's proving more recalcitrant. I'm going to try (re)beveling on a 1200 plate, then on to 4000/6000/10000 finishing. Next some dedicated stropping sans paste. As for setting the bevel the 40 circular strokes worked pretty well for the Clover. Same plan for the Oxford although I'm upping the grit 200.

I don't think my judgment on progression is an issue. With no bevel setting involved I previously refurbished a Wester Bros. successfully to the extent I sent it out for new scales. Maybe scaling will be my next adventure.

I'll update on the Oxford. Thanks all.