I'm looking to buy a rustless holder for my 200x50mm Ardennes coticule. The holders advertised on Ebay and Amazon have many reviews saying their metal parts rust. Anyone know of a rustless version available in the UK?
Rustless hone holder?
- Thread starter Beemer
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Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
Search for the Naniwa brand holder, it has SS rods I believe. Not in the UK, but Max at Japanese Natural Stones has a spring-loaded holder with all SS hardware that is my go-to holder. Grip the center bars from underneath the holder to spread the ‘jaws’, then put the stone in. No screws to fool with.
For my first two years or so of honing I used a typical cheapo stone holder, two rods with 3 rubber blocks and adjusting nuts. I cleaned it off and wiped it down after use, and oiled the threads now and then - it was just plated steel and it never rusted. So I wonder if the bad reviews are from people that don't know how to take care of their stuff?
That said, the single rod Suherio adjustable holder was, originally, made of rubber and stainless steel. Stainless is rust resistant, not rust proof. I haven't shopped for one since forever so check up on the materials. Back when - It was the best of it's genre IMO. Suherio also makes a two part all-rubber holder/stand set that comes with a plastic sharpening pond.
That said, the single rod Suherio adjustable holder was, originally, made of rubber and stainless steel. Stainless is rust resistant, not rust proof. I haven't shopped for one since forever so check up on the materials. Back when - It was the best of it's genre IMO. Suherio also makes a two part all-rubber holder/stand set that comes with a plastic sharpening pond.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
My stone holder is 60 years old, and never rusts. Didn't cost me a dime, either.
I’ve never found a stone holder that I truly like, but I tolerate the Suherio single rod holder or better yet a piece of thick piece of rubber.
Think I get the joke above. I hold my hones stones in my hand. No rust there, and no cost apart from the occasional visit to the hospital from time to time. ;-)
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Here's to many more!
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
Cheers to all us old ‘stone holders’, lol.
They don’t work as well with those 4 pound bricks though.
They don’t work as well with those 4 pound bricks though.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
Flip your stone holder over and use the bottom David. That turns the holder into a block of rubber and can work with some shorter stones.
- Thread starter
- #12
Thanks for your replies. I asked before the Ardennes coticule arrived but now I find that it is high enough to just sit on an absorbent mat without my hand hitting the table. I have done my first honing and need help. Can images be uploaded directly to display in a post or can they only be linked?
- Thread starter
- #13
I'll try to insert an image now:
So it worked! Can someone advise me how to proceed as after honing as described it will not pass the HHT. I need to shave against the grain and my razor is dragging badly. I have read that fine fishing with a coticule should not require stropping immediately after honing. Is this correct. I am a newbie to honing.
Ian
So it worked! Can someone advise me how to proceed as after honing as described it will not pass the HHT. I need to shave against the grain and my razor is dragging badly. I have read that fine fishing with a coticule should not require stropping immediately after honing. Is this correct. I am a newbie to honing.
Ian
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
That’s a ragged, shiny looking apex. It’s sometimes hard to tell from images, but it doesn’t look like the bevel is formed all the way to the cutting edge/apex. The shineys could be fin or false edge, so strop and see if they’re gone. If not and still won’t pass HHT, then the bevel probably needs more work.
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Strop that razor like a red headed step child. Like you stole it
I think the lit edge is from the light being in the wrong place.
Otherwise it looks like a coti edge before stropping. Consistent light placement and illumination are essential to a good visual representation of edge.
It may be much better than you have shown - it might not be
Love the magnification rating on these things. 200x I should only see the bevel and not much of it at that.
Otherwise it looks like a coti edge before stropping. Consistent light placement and illumination are essential to a good visual representation of edge.
It may be much better than you have shown - it might not be
Love the magnification rating on these things. 200x I should only see the bevel and not much of it at that.
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- #18
After your reply I checked the calibration of my microscope using a vernier scale. The x200 setting is accurate with 0.02inches appearing 4inches on my 1600x1200 screen. I attach another image this time showing the measurement across the bevel which is also 20thou.
Both sides of my razor show similar images and my razor when physically measured (not counting round spine part) is 16.5 degrees. I cannot see any evidence of a wire edge or other impediment to it being sharp enough to shave without the tugging. Some posts I have read (e.g. Dr. Matt) say that stropping a fresh correctly honed blade just rounds the point even if chromium oxide paste is used and that honing is a restorative process. I'm not disregarding the advice offered here I'm just trying to take the process as far as possible at each step. I did set the bevel after receiving the blade. I note that some view the honed edge with only a x4 loupe and get satisfaction and others use a x1000 microscope with their images showing little scratches unlike mine. My blade has had at least twenty passes at each of the diminishing water stages finishing with water only. If someone has an image with the same scaling as mine then I would love to see what your edge looks like assuming it will pass the HHT and permit upward shaving of your moustache area which I find impossible.
Ian
Both sides of my razor show similar images and my razor when physically measured (not counting round spine part) is 16.5 degrees. I cannot see any evidence of a wire edge or other impediment to it being sharp enough to shave without the tugging. Some posts I have read (e.g. Dr. Matt) say that stropping a fresh correctly honed blade just rounds the point even if chromium oxide paste is used and that honing is a restorative process. I'm not disregarding the advice offered here I'm just trying to take the process as far as possible at each step. I did set the bevel after receiving the blade. I note that some view the honed edge with only a x4 loupe and get satisfaction and others use a x1000 microscope with their images showing little scratches unlike mine. My blade has had at least twenty passes at each of the diminishing water stages finishing with water only. If someone has an image with the same scaling as mine then I would love to see what your edge looks like assuming it will pass the HHT and permit upward shaving of your moustache area which I find impossible.
Ian
This image is nearly twice the magnification of the other on my screen.
It is a terrible image if you are using it to quantify an edge!
HHT means squat.
Strop your razor when finished honing. Yes, it rounds the edge creating a convex cross section albeit very small.
It will also smooth out your edge.
Many hones will not give a HHT directly from them, but strop them, and hairs fall silent.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Two things to try. You have bench honed, and you have finished in clear water. Now try this.
Hone in hand. Finish under running water. In the shower works. Very very light pressure. In the shower, you do not have to hold the stone horizontally. You can feel free to hold it vertically, where you can use less than the weight of the razor. Last half dozen laps, go spine leading, edge trailing. If this seems to contribute to fin edge issues, then I guess don't do it.
For the REAL finish, add lather to the stone and hone with gradually decreasing pressure. It should feel at the end as if the razor is not even touching the stone, but instead is gliding on a film of lather. Replenish lather as needed. Takes a couple hundred laps, typically. If you get stiction with the lather and can't hold it off the stone, try spine leading. With some coticules, the lather trick can make an edge as sharp as a 12k synthetic.
When you are really pushing a stone to perform outside the envelope, honing in hand becomes even more a useful and important technique. It takes a minute or two to catch on, but when the epiphany strikes, you will feel like that first ancestral hominid who stood upright and thought how funny and inadequate his stooped over, knuckle dragging brethren looked.
You could of course finish on 1u lapping film and lapped and pasted balsa, if you really want sharp. But I do understand the lure of the natural stone and nothing wrong with that.
Hone in hand. Finish under running water. In the shower works. Very very light pressure. In the shower, you do not have to hold the stone horizontally. You can feel free to hold it vertically, where you can use less than the weight of the razor. Last half dozen laps, go spine leading, edge trailing. If this seems to contribute to fin edge issues, then I guess don't do it.
For the REAL finish, add lather to the stone and hone with gradually decreasing pressure. It should feel at the end as if the razor is not even touching the stone, but instead is gliding on a film of lather. Replenish lather as needed. Takes a couple hundred laps, typically. If you get stiction with the lather and can't hold it off the stone, try spine leading. With some coticules, the lather trick can make an edge as sharp as a 12k synthetic.
When you are really pushing a stone to perform outside the envelope, honing in hand becomes even more a useful and important technique. It takes a minute or two to catch on, but when the epiphany strikes, you will feel like that first ancestral hominid who stood upright and thought how funny and inadequate his stooped over, knuckle dragging brethren looked.
You could of course finish on 1u lapping film and lapped and pasted balsa, if you really want sharp. But I do understand the lure of the natural stone and nothing wrong with that.
