Restoration Questions

[redbike]

I’m working on some brush restorations and have a few questions:

1. When sanding out the remnants of the “shelf” that supported the old knot, how close should I get to the “wall” of the handle? When I put my finger inside the handle and feel around where the “shelf” was, I can feel a ridge of material that protrudes from the handle wall. Is it necessary to remove most or all of this material?

2. How do I ensure that there is a watertight fit between the new shelf and the wall of the handle? Some of the handles have a wider middle section than upper section, and I’m not sure how I can fit new material through the narrower upper section into the wider middle section.

Thanks very much, and I’ll certainly post pictures when the project is complete.

jim

 

[redbike]

I posted this yesterday knowing that some of you who've been doing these restorations could help me with this.

Thanks.

jim

 

[slamjet]

I'll tell you when I get that far, but thus far I've use a dremel with a drum sander on it and smooth out the sides. Just be carefull not to take out too much material. As for sealing it, I'm going to put in a layer of epoxy to seal up the bottom before I set in the knot.

 

[spanx]

Well as far as wall thickness I wouldn't make it any thinner than 2mm or the handle may become brittle.I haven't worked on a handle with a shelf in it,but My suggestion would be only remove enough material to fit the knot at the loft you want.When dealing with a hollowed out handle like you describe you are left with 2 choices.1.you can dremel the rim out to where it is flush with the inner wall or.2.you can clean out any debri inside the handle above the shelf and fill it in with extra epoxy when setting the knot.Filling it in with epoxy or trimming the top ring and using a bigger knot should fill any voids for water to get in.

 

[Mink]

If the base diameter of the handle hole is less than the diameter of the knot glue ring, things could go badly. You need to find out what the knot glue diameter is. If it's less than the base diameter, you're ok. If it's larger, I would remove material to ensure that your knot glue ring sits flat. The question that begs to be answered is, how did the hole diameter end up not being the same for the whole length? How much of the hole is the larger diameter? If you're buying your knot from Tony at Golden Nib, he has made enough of these things to give you your best options.

 

[redbike]

Thanks guys for the helpful responses. I'm posting a picture of the brushes I'm working on. The one I mentioned where the middle is wider than the top is the green & black one on the far right. I'm assuming the new knot shelf will be somewhere in that middle. Do I mix the cork & epoxy outside the hollow handle or mix it right inside the handle? If I mix it outside, what works to get it into the handle? And what works to get a flat surface for the new shelf?

I know, a lot of questions. I really appreciate the informed and very helpful advice.

Thanks.

jim

 

[Schwert]

That green/black one looks like a great handle.

I have no idea where the shelf may be in that one, so you are going to have to play this as you go.

Pull or drill out the existing bristles and then decide what to do next.

Check to see if that base screws into the top....some people have restored brushes that do that.

If the shelf is too high for the desired loft on your knot, you will have to drill through it...it may be hollow below it may not.

If it is hollow...here is what I did on an EverReady.

I chopped a wine cork up to mostly fill the hollow up to the approximate level I wanted to set my new knot.

I dumped out the chopped cork and set it aside while I mixed up plenty of epoxy. I then using a bamboo BBQ skewer picked up blobs of epoxy and carefully laid a good amount in the hollow base.

Then I pushed the chopped cork into the epoxy with a clean skewer....add more epoxy...more cork...etc.

When I got to just below the level I wanted to set my knot I pushed the cork all down with a skewer to "wedge" it in place (it wanted to float). I let that cure. After it was cured I added new epoxy to make a shelf to the exact level I wanted my knot to set. Let that cure then glued in the new knot...

If I was going to do this again I would fill the hollow with chopped cork and epoxy....let that cure....then fill the rest of the handle to the very top with epoxy...let that cure. Then redrill the epoxy to set my new knot. This approach would have given me better control of the void around the new knot.

 

[Sueto]

Something else that has worked for me is using candle wax to fill hollow handles. I found it easier to set the depth I would want. I found it a little more forgiving if I had made a mistake. Easy to get candle wax out and try again. Then put in my epoxy and set the knot.

 

[slamjet]

Something else that has worked for me is using candle wax to fill hollow handles. I found it easier to set the depth I would want. I found it a little more forgiving if I had made a mistake. Easy to get candle wax out and try again. Then put in my epoxy and set the knot.

I like this idea! But do you melt it in or cut and smoosh it in?

 

[redbike]

Again, thanks for the suggestions. The wax is a very intriguing idea. There would be no voids in the handle for water to enter, which I am concerned about using cork & epoxy. I wonder though if the wax surface will bond with epoxy if I tried to glue the knot directly onto the wax.

 

[Schwert]

There is no way the epoxy will bond to the wax, but I do not think it has to. It will bond with the sides of the brush cavity and that should be fine if you have enough surface area there.

The mix of cork and epoxy will be exceptionally waterproof too and has no voids if done properly...just harder to get the level just right.

 

[Sueto]

Schwert beat me to the answer. There is enough of the sidewall exposed for the epoxy to bond with. If you opened up a two tone rubberset or ever-ready brush that had a hollow handle you would see that the knot is set with a small amount of epoxy, rubber or something similar. So in those brushes the side walls are doing all the holding anyway.

@slamjet
I just melted it down and poured it. If it spills or something it's not a big deal since it's easy to clean up. if it becomes solid again, just head it back up. Experiences may vary, it worked for me for what it's worth.

 

[Schwert]

I think the wax idea is very good. It is waterproof, easy and seems to give the handle the sort of heft that would be just about right.

Epoxy is much harder to get right, and way more expensive too. Next hollow handle I do I may try the wax idea. I just cannot see any reason it will not work unless you are setting your knot very shallow.

 

[Schwert]

Paraffin has a melting point below boiling water (120-160 degrees F)...so the only thing I can think about is to not soak your brush in boiling water....over time the melt may work its way up and around any voids you have in the knot or glue.

I never use such hot water to soak my brushes. I can see exceeding the melting point say if the brush was in a car trunk in the hot summer too..so I suppose this is one decent reason to use epoxy.

 

[Sueto]

You do raise a good point. I am hoping I do my epoxy work well enough that I do not have voids and that the handled is reassembled properly so that no leaking should occur. If water isn't getting in the brush, then I am hoping that wax can't get out of it.

I was mostly suggesting it as an option. saved me from using a couple tubes that I could use for even more brush handles. Now I have the excuse of finding brush handles so that I can use this epoxy that I have.

 

[Jack-in-the-Green]

Another option that I've used is to fill the bottom of the handle with epoxy putty. The putty can be worked like clay for several minutes until you get a nice, level shelf wherever you want it, then it dries hard and secure.

 

[sodajerk]

I was going to use plaster of Paris to build up close to the bottom of the knot then fill with epoxy. Bad idea? A couple of mine appear to have it inside of them after I drilled them out.

 

[Bullseye]

I was going to use plaster of Paris to build up close to the bottom of the knot then fill with epoxy. Bad idea? A couple of mine appear to have it inside of them after I drilled them out.

A Majestic that I'm working on has plaster of paris in it from the maker.

Mark

 

[redbike]

Another option that I've used is to fill the bottom of the handle with epoxy putty. The putty can be worked like clay for several minutes until you get a nice, level shelf wherever you want it, then it dries hard and secure.

And I would imagine that epoxy to hold the knot would adhere to the epoxy putty? This really sounds like it has potential. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[fidjit]

Looks like it might be similar to a Fuller restore I did.

A lot of it depends on the loft you want.

In my case the cork tile fitted the job perfectly !