- Thread starter
- #161
+1. I don't see anything wrong with this.
R41 version confusion
- Thread starter Badger Bill
- Start date
+1. I don't see anything wrong with this.
????
You mean the remaining stock, or the head itself?
The R41 head design is owned by Muhle and they are still making the 2013 version of the R41 head.
Nobody else can make the 2011 version of the head without licensing it through Muhle... and I think Muhle would go back into production of "The Beast" before they would license it to Merkur or Parker.
Weishi or one of the other Chinese manufacturers might produce a knockoff.
There is nothing wrong with that...just that maybe sometimes we forget that US vendors buy from the importer and not directly from Muhle and therefore the prices are higher.
I posted it because I considered it a good good price for a Rosegold.
Not an inflated price.
- Thread starter
- #165
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I actually don't know that these are the rules. Of course people aren't supposed to be using the b/s/t to explicitly make a profit, but if someone bought, say, a fatboy 5 years ago for $25, do they really need to list it for $25 today? That' doesn't seem right… My understanding was always that b/s/t prices are supposed to be in line with current, fair market prices. With that said, buying things cheap with the pure, clear intention of jacking them up on the b/s/t would definitely be discouraged, in my understanding. But of course I could be wrong.
The rules explicitly state the following.
5.) ON TOPIC discussion is highly encouraged in the B/S/T. This means commenting on how great a deal is, how unique an item is, reminding a member of the rules, etc. The Mod Team does not enforce fair pricing. If a listed item is unrealistically priced, members are encouraged to comment on the price in a gentlemanly fashion.
But again, sorry this is probably getting a little off topic for the purposes of this thread. Here's to re-directing the discussion to be back on track!
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I was referring to Boaz's reply.
The item is fairly priced for the US market,not for the European because they cost that new here.
I'm with Chamm et al. I have my 2011's and they're for me, not for a few dollar's profit. I hedged because I thought this day may be coming. I like the razor that much, and as long as DE razors are my primary shave, I will have the comfort of knowing I'll shave the rest of my life with them (provided something better doesn't come out). I would be saddened if the BST became a venue other than what it is now - an outlet for shaving enthusiasts, not profit enthusiasts.
Only commented because I compared it with this:
http://www.nkdman.co.uk/muhle-r41-rose-gold-safety-razor/
as as long as both buyer and seller are happy that's all that matters.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I actually don't know that these are the rules. Of course people aren't supposed to be using the b/s/t to explicitly make a profit, but if someone bought, say, a fatboy 5 years ago for $25, do they really need to list it for $25 today? That' doesn't seem right… My understanding was always that b/s/t prices are supposed to be in line with current, fair market prices. With that said, buying things cheap with the pure, clear intention of jacking them up on the b/s/t would definitely be discouraged, in my understanding. But of course I could be wrong.
The rules explicitly state the following.
5.) ON TOPIC discussion is highly encouraged in the B/S/T. This means commenting on how great a deal is, how unique an item is, reminding a member of the rules, etc. The Mod Team does not enforce fair pricing. If a listed item is unrealistically priced, members are encouraged to comment on the price in a gentlemanly fashion.
But again, sorry this is probably getting a little off topic for the purposes of this thread. Here's to re-directing the discussion to be back on track!
It comes up from time to time, and the mods can't and won't enforce if someone "bends" the rules by selling the $25 Fatboy for $40, but threads have been deleted when users have been more blatant,
examples: bragging about a "great deal" on the forum, then a month or two later attempting to sell at "fair market" (triple the purchase price).
Recently discontinued products being offered significantly above retail, etc.... There were a couple of threads that were shut down when Irisch Moos was discontinued.
Like I said... if 20 or 30 of Jarrod's razors show up on BST at inflated prices, don't be surprised if the entire BST gets shut down. There HAS been much debate in the past on whether to keep it or not.
It is a lot of work for the moderators to maintain that section.
Again, North American prices are higher because of Muhle's distribution chain.
Retail here is over $70. It really screws the North American dealers because Muhle does not prohibit their European dealers from selling overseas. Many companies do... Scubapro and Aqua Lung will pull the line if they catch a dealer selling out of market.
SWMBO bought me a nice 2013 rosegold set for Cristmas, and it was my first experience with the redesign. Once again, with chamm on seeing the two versions for what they are: equal in their own realms. I can see myself using both versions moving forward. 2011 would have first place, but 2013 is solidly in second. Fatip is a close third.
When my brother goes back to straights and returns me the favour (I've introduced him to DE), I suppose I'll take the plunge, see the light, and 2011 will become second place...
Doesn't make sense but Muhle can't prohibit anyone from selling wherever they want,unless of course they decide only themselves will sell the items.
- Individual licenses – are granted by individual EU countries to one exporter and cover exports to one end user
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Companies can and do.
Example, if West Coast Shaving started ordering razors from Connaught at $36 and selling them for $50, Muhle would likely terminate their dealership, which would cut them off from all Muhle products.
As I mentioned, scuba manufacturers will cut a dealer off in a heartbeat if they sell "gray market", and they will ALSO deny warranty coverage to customers that purchase gray market products.
Some local dive shops are so paranoid that they will refuse to provide any service at all on equipment that was purchased from Leisurepro and other gray market sellers. For a few years, we were able to purchase repair parts from sources in Europe, but as time went on, that became harder and harder.
Marketing pipelines are not as simple as a shop wants to carry a product so they simply buy it. The manufacturer has high-volume agreements with distributors and importers. They set these agreements up keeping in mind geographic territories and market size, to allow each distributor to be able to sell enough product to make a fair profit.
The same goes for the local dealers. They sign an agreement with their local distributor. With online sales, some of the lines are blurred, but when everything was brick and mortar, there was a reason that you would not find two music stores both selling Marshall amplifiers within 10 miles of each other. Ever notice "Call for price" or "Price too low to list!" in advertisements? Fender, Gibson, and many gun manufacturers prohibit their dealers from advertising in a market that is covered by another dealer.
I believe the key word here is "user". You mentioned a retailer buying from another retailer... I don't think it is the same thing and it is not what this EU directive talks about.
It's all academic for me, as the BST is off limits to hobbyists. 
I think it adds a lot to the site, and in general it's great that members have a place to trade items. Honestly, I would never buy a brush off eBay, but I've bought all my brushes here and never been burned.
There's a fine line between profiteering and setting realistic market prices. The bottom line, and what makes things pretty clear for me is that I don't look at my razors as investments. For me, personally, treating shaving tools as an investment would definitely take some of the enjoyment out of it for me. Instead of looking at how well something would work for me, I would always be thinking about the money behind it, and I strive to base as little of my life around money as I can. There are many, many other things that make more stable investments with more predictable returns.
I think it adds a lot to the site, and in general it's great that members have a place to trade items. Honestly, I would never buy a brush off eBay, but I've bought all my brushes here and never been burned.There's a fine line between profiteering and setting realistic market prices. The bottom line, and what makes things pretty clear for me is that I don't look at my razors as investments. For me, personally, treating shaving tools as an investment would definitely take some of the enjoyment out of it for me. Instead of looking at how well something would work for me, I would always be thinking about the money behind it, and I strive to base as little of my life around money as I can. There are many, many other things that make more stable investments with more predictable returns.
They can and do also prohibit sales out of territory.
It is increasingly rare with online sales, but it used to be extremely common.
I haven't tried buying scuba repair parts in a few years, but in 2008 I had a hard time sourcing parts that I was easily able to get in 2004.
In that case,and I assume you're right then, seems like Muhle simply doesn't care because I'm sure they are well aware at least 3 or 4 EU retailers will ship overseas. The only one getting screwed in this is the US importer because for the customer is a better deal and Muhle was the 1st getting paid so they don't really care.
Not the importer. He has an agreement with Muhle and every local shop that sells Muhle products. The dealers have minimum purchase agreements in order to retain the line, so he has guaranteed minimum sales.
It's the guys like West Coast or Jarrod that get screwed.
They have to buy "x" number of units every year, and they don't sell because the customers are buying from the UK, Ireland, and Italy.
Forces them to either be stuck with stock levels that increase every year, or to sell below cost.... and they can't advertise a price that is below MAP or they get cut off.
