Purchasing first honing stone

[Phoenix997]

So I'm fairly new to straight razors, started only a couple of months ago. But already the edge is quite dull and in need of sharpening.

Sending it to a pro is economically unviable for me so I have to learn how to hone.

Very new to me but I have found two potential stones that both seem reasonably priced, a Boker that has a two stones in one with 8000 and 3000 rating. I believe it is a whetstone. Or a la lune that is rated 12-15k.

Would either be suitable for me as a beginner? I would add that I find stropping quite difficult and my strop is pretty much shredded

 

[Phoenix997]

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Would either be suitable for me as a beginner? I would add that I find stropping quite difficult and my strop is pretty much shredded

I don't know anything about the Böker stone; a little bit about the La Lune, but I think you ought to sort out your stropping technique before you start buying rocks.

 

[Christian1212]

Paste on a strop (linen side) is a good way to add life to a failing edge. For stones I would look at the shapton Rockstar 10k or a black arkansas stone. Arkansas stone will be slower but has a great finish.

If you have paste then you could also use a coticule. Versatile stone but finishing on it could be tricky and paste will help fill that gap.

No matter what stones you get though, make sure you lap them flat! Atoma 400 or 600 is normally recommended. Sandpaper and a flat surface work too.

 

[ZeelandsRoem]

I have found two potential stones that both seem reasonably priced, a Boker that has a two stones in one with 8000 and 3000 rating

That Böker stone is just a cheap stone made in Asia which has their name printed on it.

My advice: stay away from that stone. The “3k” is too soft and doesn’t have much power to remove steel. In fact, before you’re even done with that stage, the stone needs to be flattened again. The “8k” is not an 8k and funny enough, it is faster than the “3k”. Also a bit harder, but still needs to be flattened often.

At some point, I tried to use mine for chisels which get banged up all day long, but even there it wasn’t doing well, so eventually I needed to free up the space and one day I took a hammer and split it to make some synth finger stones with the “8k” side.

For the price of that “Böker” 3/8k synth stone, there are much better options out there. Unfortunately, if you say you shredded your strop and you find stropping quite difficult, then I am afraid a stone will likely not help you much at this point.

la lune that is rated 12-15k

It’s a natural stone, not a synthetic one. Therefore, the grit rating given by the seller is misleading because mother nature did not have a requirements list to adhere to when those stones were forming in the ground.

 

[Gamma]

I would add that I find stropping quite difficult and my strop is pretty much shredded

Learn how to strop before going forward. It's not difficult to do so most likely you are doing something wrong.
If your strop is shredded, get a new one.

I would pass on the synth combo stone, as noted, the quality is highly suspect.
I've not had one of the modern Lune hones, said to be 12-15k. I have another stone of the same 'grit' by the same maker and it isn't 'as advertised'. I may get a new Lune eventually just to see...

Buying by numbers doesn't work. There isn't any reliable standardization like it would seem.

Who honed the razor you are using? Did you like that edge? Find out what hones they used to finish and start with that.

And if your razor is really all that dull, you will probably want to start honing on a stone on/around 1000 grit. Yes, you can start with a finer stone but it makes the work harder and the task takes longer.

 

[A_Shaves_91]

New to the honing game myself and have blasted away on my strop by putting some minor slits in it for sure. I bought 2 hone stones right out the gate and was immediately honing to correct any stropping /poor shaving technique damage caused.

Check out the Shapton Pro series stones or Naniwa’s (though recommend you get a 20mm thick Naniwa’s to avoid any potential warping). These stones have been great for me as a beginner. As mentioned above, you’ll also need a lapping (flattening stone), that you’ll use each time before honing to make sure your honing surface (stone) is perfectly flat.

If you have the bevel properly set (by one of the guys on this forum) and know it’s on the money, you could get away with having just a 8k (slight touch ups) and 12k (finisher), barring any significant digs or damage to your edge / bevel. Also, get a new strop or replace the leather if the one you’re using is blown up beyond salvage and start incorporating use of the canvas / linen side while you establish better technique (it’s cheaper to replace if you do hammer it). This said, if your bevel is shot, an 8k and 12k aren’t going to do much for you in the way of productivity.

 

[Phoenix997]

Paste on a strop (linen side) is a good way to add life to a failing edge. For stones I would look at the shapton Rockstar 10k or a black arkansas stone. Arkansas stone will be slower but has a great finish.

If you have paste then you could also use a coticule. Versatile stone but finishing on it could be tricky and paste will help fill that gap.

No matter what stones you get though, make sure you lap them flat! Atoma 400 or 600 is normally recommended. Sandpaper and a flat surface work too.

Lap them flat? How do I do that?

 

[Phoenix997]

Learn how to strop before going forward. It's not difficult to do so most likely you are doing something wrong.
If your strop is shredded, get a new one.

I would pass on the synth combo stone, as noted, the quality is highly suspect.
I've not had one of the modern Lune hones, said to be 12-15k. I have another stone of the same 'grit' by the same maker and it isn't 'as advertised'. I may get a new Lune eventually just to see...

Buying by numbers doesn't work. There isn't any reliable standardization like it would seem.

Who honed the razor you are using? Did you like that edge? Find out what hones they used to finish and start with that.

And if your razor is really all that dull, you will probably want to start honing on a stone on/around 1000 grit. Yes, you can start with a finer stone but it makes the work harder and the task takes longer.

I bought it from the English shaving company who claimed it was shave ready but I assume it just came from the factory with nothing being done to it. It was fine at first but now 10-15 shaves even after 5 passes it doesn't not clear much hair and I need a significant follow up with a DE

 

[Phoenix997]

Thanks for the advice guys. So the boker is out.

I was reading one of the other threads on this forum. Can I damage the blade if I hone it incorrectly?

 

[Christian1212]

Lap them flat? How do I do that?

Diamond plates are the most recommended (Atoma 400 or atoma 600 being the favorite now days).

Cheaper solution is sandpaper on a flat surface. This could be float glass, or I think marble? Would want to do some digging if you go this route. Good short term, but long term the plate will save money, time, and headache

A blade can be damaged if honed incorrectly. If you have a razor that was shave ready, starting at the midrange can reduce any damage you might cause while you get the feel for it. Could be a good idea to try and pick up a cheap vintage to practice with.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Generally if the razor hasnt had any damage done to it; you just need a finishing stone. In my opinion, there's really never a need to drop below that for razor touch ups unless the razor was abused or damaged.

As such, don't waste your money on a two sided hone or any kind of "good enough" finisher. Get a finisher that will give you a great shave and use it to touch up the razor.

A good Jnat or a Thuringian are probably the best options, but there are plenty of other.

I would NOT recommend an 8k JIS (even a good one) as a touch up/finishing hone. It'll work ok... but there are much better options.



That said; as Gamma and Matt noted... You need to be comfortable stropping before you ever worry about honing. Make a denim strop or cloth strops out of some clothes that you were gonna throw out or something... just to practice on. Get to where you have no fear you're going to nick your strop; then replace your strop. Then get a good hone and sharpen your razor.


Some guys like La Lunes... I personally find them pretty unexceptional. I've owned dozens of random slates I prefer to them. Thats based on the vintage ones. I haven't tried a new one.

 

[lightfoot]

The La Lune might be an attractive place to start if I were in your situation. I believe they come with a small slurry stone which can expand the range of the stone if you need more work than using it with water alone would likely do.

Additionally, it could be kept flat with black sandpaper (600#) on a flat surface.

But yes, address the stropping issue and replace the one you have if possible.

 

[Gamma]

I bought it from the English shaving company who claimed it was shave ready but I assume it just came from the factory with nothing being done to it. It was fine at first but now 10-15 shaves even after 5 passes it doesn't not clear much hair and I need a significant follow up with a DE

Maybe factory edge, maybe not. Guesses and assumptions do more harm than good.
If you contact the vendor, ask them if they hone the blade, and how, or if they come from the factory like that, then you'll know for sure. Historically, Dovo and TI edges have been way less than acceptable and I'd had to re-set the bevel on each one I've been blessed to work on.

If you spent a few $$ on a nice new razor, you may consider sending it out to a pro for honing. While it is possible to learn how to hone on it, it might be best to learn on something that is already worn a bit.

 

[Phoenix997]

Maybe factory edge, maybe not. Guesses and assumptions do more harm than good.
If you contact the vendor, ask them if they hone the blade, and how, or if they come from the factory like that, then you'll know for sure. Historically, Dovo and TI edges have been way less than acceptable and I'd had to re-set the bevel on each one I've been blessed to work on.

If you spent a few $$ on a nice new razor, you may consider sending it out to a pro for honing. While it is possible to learn how to hone on it, it might be best to learn on something that is already worn a bit.

That's good advice, thank you. Yes, it's this nice Boker Everhard like this one:
Boker Count Everhard 5/8 Full Hollow Blade with Horn Scales Solingen Straight Razor - https://www.griffithshavinggoods.com/products/boker-count-everhard-5-8-full-hollow-blade-with-horn-scales-solingen-straight-razor

I got it at a steep discount but it was still pretty pricey. It's probably best as you suggest not to learn honing on this one.

 

[Gamma]

That's good advice, thank you. Yes, it's this nice Boker Everhard like this one:
Boker Count Everhard 5/8 Full Hollow Blade with Horn Scales Solingen Straight Razor - https://www.griffithshavinggoods.com/products/boker-count-everhard-5-8-full-hollow-blade-with-horn-scales-solingen-straight-razor

I got it at a steep discount but it was still pretty pricey. It's probably best as you suggest not to learn honing on this one.

Yeah, that's not a 'training wheels' blade by any sense of the definition.
If you need that one honed - check out @Bayamontate - I recommend his honing to everyone looking for an edge.

To learn honing - you can probably find something on the BST eventually. Find something not too worn and decent to look at so you will want to shave with it when you finally nail the edge.
Happy Honing!

 

[Phoenix997]

Ok so I tried the paste on the canvas side of the strop. It improved somewhat but not greatly. The blade is now very dull and I can touch it with my fingers and nothing happens. By contrast, I went to Taylor of old Bond Street the other day, checked out their straights and one slight mishandle and my finger was slashed.
So I’m going to have to learn this honing business.
I’m still thinking of this la lune stone or possibly this dovo one:

DOVO WHETSTONE SET

The Coticule DOVO Whetstone is a natural whetstone with a storied history that has been extracted and produced in the Belgian Ardennes since the 17th century. This sedimentary rock, formed over 480 million years ago, is composed of grey-yellowish volcanic ash and clay embedded with hard garnet...

cutthroatclub.co.uk

Is there any difference between the two? Or will either do the job?
I assume the dovo also has the slurry stone for the same purpose as the la lune?

 

[LJS]

Razor manufacturers are not the best place to shop for stones really. That “dovo” is clearly a marked ardennes coticule. If that’s what you want then many other places to buy them and even direct from Ardennes. No, it is not at all the same as lune hones.

If your razor is as dull as you describe…..then a finishing stone is probably not going to fix that. Sounds like you need to go back and set the bevel.

You might be better off starting with a small progression of synthetic stones.

 

[Tomo]

The cheapest and easiest way to start honing is with lapping film. All you need is a 12x3x1” acrylic block and a set of 8.5x11”, 3m brand, plain backed, aluminium oxide, lapping film. Get the 30 to 1 micron with all stages in between. Add an extra sheet of the coursest and finest grit. Cut the film into thirds and stick it onto the acrylic substrate with plain water. You can hone anything with that setup. It’s a full honing progression with small grit jumps and tightly controlled particle distribution. It works well and is very forgiving. There are lots of threads on how to use it. As an added bonus you don’t need a lapping plate as there is no wear on the acrylic substrate. Total investment should be about $50.

You can build on this progression later with stones. Once you can use this and have burned through your 1 micron films you can add a Dan’s Arkansas stone for the ultimate finish.

 

[Phoenix997]

Razor manufacturers are not the best place to shop for stones really. That “dovo” is clearly a marked ardennes coticule. If that’s what you want then many other places to buy them and even direct from Ardennes. No, it is not at all the same as lune hones.

If your razor is as dull as you describe…..then a finishing stone is probably not going to fix that. Sounds like you need to go back and set the bevel.

You might be better off starting with a small progression of synthetic stones.

How do I set the bevel?

A syntthic set such as naniwa? Which ones should I get?