Phasing out tallow shaving soaps in the EU?

[rbscebu]

Many have noticed that tallow is being phased out from shaving soaps manufactured in the EU, by either discontinuing the product or changing its formula. There are many rumours/stories floating around as to why this is so.

Does anyone know the real reason?

Is it regulatory and, if so, does it relate to manufacturing only or does it include selling? Is it just the manufacturers following what they perceive to be public opinion?

I just hope that Turkey doesn't join the EU.

 

[ackvil]

When rumors began about Haslinger eliminating tallow from its soaps, I sent them an email. The response I got was that it was being done for "ethical" reasons and it had been under consideration for a long time. I sent another email and asked why they never made a public announcement about eliminating tallow. However, I never got a response.

Years before I visited France and spoke to one individual who owned a retail shaving store and other who was a soap-maker. Both said they had faced pressure from certain animal rights groups to eliminate animal products from what they make or sell. The soap maker said it took her a few years to find a formula that provided the same results as tallow but the pressure convinced her she had to do this.

A short time ago rumors began that Kent would no longer sell badger brushes. I again emailed Kent who confirmed that they would no longer use badger hair. The response I got:

"Thank you for your email,
We are no longer using badger bristle in our production, we have a new range of synthetic bristle which have been designed to have the same luxurious feel as badger.
The bristle shaving brushes are boar bristle."

 

[macintoshBR]

Not regulatory yet. It’s about public pressure from environmentalists, vegan and animal right communities. There are a lot of people in the EU who care about these topics and they generally have a loud voice. Companies use the switch as marketing - for example Speick stick now boasts a “vegan” text right on the package

My view knowing relatively well both EU and Turkey cultures is that Arko should be safe at least for another generation…

 

[rbscebu]

....
My view knowing relatively well both EU and Turkey cultures is that Arko should be safe at least for another generation…

That's good. I don't care what happens after I die. I currently have enough tallow based soaps to last me at least another 10 years.

 

[SydneyShaver]

Depends. Tabac's factory shut down and Tabac either didn't seek a replacement in time or simply didn't mind switching to manufacturing that was tallowless. This is also why Fine soaps reformulated. Speick phasing out tallow was to be expected. Their entire schtick is that they are environmentally friendly, all natural, etc. etc. and now the stick falls in line with the remainder of their offerings. In fact I'm pretty sure it was also made in the same factory as Tabac and Fine. The reason for a lot of companies refusing to use badger etc and go synthetic instead was due to some investigative journalism done on badger farming practices in China. Even by normal animal farming and storage standards (Which are frankly quite low), what was filmed being done regularly in China was abyssmal. Quite a lot of companies cite this incident as the reason to switching to synth or at least being anti-badger. There's no real legal pressure to go tallowless. Its mostly business and finance driving these decisions. (at least from what can be seen from a consumers perspective. Who knows what the anti-tallow illuminati do in the shadows?).

 

[PintoPlain]

I'm not aware of any EU legislation regarding tallow. Then again there is a lot of legislation I'm unaware of.

As others have said, the animal rights groups and extreme vegans have loud voices, and jumping on the vegan bandwagon is seemingly a popular marketing move at present. Unilever, P&G et al are constantly advertising their "vegan formula".

I'm sure some smaller soapmakers will continue to use what is essentially a waste product in their products, but finding them can be difficult.

 

[EclipseRedRing]

Speaking with regard to my own employer, a large multinational company, they devote much time to being seen to promote whatever is the latest social media driven campaign of righteousness. As part of the brainwashing process, this involves meetings, retraining, and re-education, as well as a thorough explanation of what I have been doing and thinking wrongly for the last 55 years. I keep out of it and keep my opinions to myself - sort of self cancellation if you like. Sorry, getting off the subject there

 

[Multum in parvo]

One hypothesis that I heard of is that it is an aftermath of BSE. As tallow is a cheap byproduct of slaughtering it contains lots of other stuff as well. EU regulators were concerned about possible contamination with nerve tissue. You can prevent and test for this but the price for such "refined" tallow increases and it is a bureaucratic hassle - hence other sources of fat came to the fore.

In my opinion there is a much greater public discussion in regards to the usage of cheap non-sustainable palm oil (food and cosmetics) as there is a "war on tallow".

 

[hcoop112]

I’m not getting in on this convo to much lol it’s like a flame waiting to explode …all I’ll say is I like both tallow and vegan soaps

 

[PintoPlain]

Speaking with regard to my own employer, a large multinational company, they devote much time to being seen to promote whatever is the latest social media driven campaign of righteousness. As part of the brainwashing process, this involves meetings, retraining, and re-education, as well as a thorough explanation of what I have been doing and thinking wrongly for the last 55 years. I keep out of it and keep my opinions to myself - sort of self cancellation if you like. Sorry, getting off the subject there

Similar to my employer. The HR and Marketing departments must spend hours browsing social media to see what the next bandwagon is and set policy/marketing strategy accordingly.

 

[tube_guy]

I'm not sure if you've seen this, but I'd say there's certainly reason to worry about Arko.

Turkish soap-maker Evyap breaks with tradition in Malaysia

Japan, China, India and Southeast Asia news and expert analysis published by Nikkei, an award-winning independent provider of quality journalism.

asia.nikkei.com

 

[macintoshBR]

I'm not sure if you've seen this, but I'd say there's certainly reason to worry about Arko.

Turkish soap-maker Evyap breaks with tradition in Malaysia

Japan, China, India and Southeast Asia news and expert analysis published by Nikkei, an award-winning independent provider of quality journalism.

asia.nikkei.com

While it's true their soaps are made in Malaysia (I shower daily with Duru bath soap), Arko shaving stick is still produced in Turkey.

 

[tube_guy]

While Arko is currently made in Turkey, in that article the Vice President of Evyap states "It is much cheaper." It's a bit ambiguous, what he's actually talking about. But things change, and quickly. That's exactly why I stated there's reason to worry about Arko.

 

[macintoshBR]

While Arko is currently made in Turkey, in that article the Vice President of Evyap states "It is much cheaper." It's a bit ambiguous, what he's actually talking about. But things change, and quickly. That's exactly why I stated there's reason to worry about Arko.

I respectfully disagree. There's no reason to worry about Arko, yet.

Evyap opened the Southeast Asia plant 12 years ago, and the article is from 2016 (6 years ago!). They still have a plant in Tuzla, Turkey, and if you follow what is happening to the Turkish currency and compare to the exchange rates in 2010 when they opened the plant, you would easily see that Evyap's management must not be very happy about having to pay dollars to import their products from their factory in Malaysia.

 

[BanjoCowboyMartaTobes]

Wonder if I can cancel that pallet order?

Joking aside, Arko is glorious. Question, if the current culture in the EU is phasing out tallow based soaps, are folks worried about all the leather goods disappearing? Those plastic Birkenstock’s are awful!

 

[Ratso]

I thought Arko was the soap everyone loved to hate! In this thread I see the biggest concern over going vegan is no more Arko. BTW I bought a dozen sticks a while back. I’m getting ready for an extended time away and Arko will be in my travel kit.
I guess I never took an in depth look at the vegan practice. In my simple mind tallow is a byproduct from animals that feed and clothe us. Kind of like Henry Ford making charcoal from sawdust and wood scraps.
It seems the pendulum always swings too far to one side or the other.

 

[chuckd]

There's indeed a conspiracy against meat for the past few years where I live as well and some people just made sure that the majority of the people won't be able to be independent by having farm animals. For whatever reason, every few years an animal virus appease out of the tin air for which affects the pigs, cows, chickens etc and none has ever see it, but if the officials say that it exists, then it must be true, right?.

Nearly all the animals who live in a small farms and not fully isolated were killed, because of suspicion that they ''might'' become infected by that virus. Only the big farmers who keep their animals in full isolation, from which most of the meat nowadays come from were spared, because the animals don't have a contact with the outside world and therefore they can't catch the virus.

The idea behind all of that is to make sure that people can't be independent to produce their own meat and buy the ''safe meat'' from the supermarkets. Now, a few years later the things shifted, like some people have speculated, but people still don't see/believe it and call others conspiracy theorists and what not.

I'm afraid one day very soon the real food will vanish completely and we wouldn't be allowed to make it ourselves, because we might endanger the environment or some other crap and we will be forced to only eat artificial stuff masked as vegan, bio and natural. The vegetables produced in Western Europe look like they were made inside a factory - they look perfect like plastic toys and almost the same, but have zero taste. All grown in greenhouse mainly in the Netherlands and Belgium and God knows what they put inside them in order for them to grow fast. Can you imagine eating a tomatoes from either of those countries? That's like eating a cheese produced from milk and made on Antarctica.

Soylent Green!

 

[tube_guy]

I respectfully disagree. There's no reason to worry about Arko, yet.

Evyap opened the Southeast Asia plant 12 years ago, and the article is from 2016 (6 years ago!). They still have a plant in Tuzla, Turkey, and if you follow what is happening to the Turkish currency and compare to the exchange rates in 2010 when they opened the plant, you would easily see that Evyap's management must not be very happy about having to pay dollars to import their products from their factory in Malaysia.

OK, but I've been in manufacturing for quite a long time. There's no reason at all to import product from Malaysia. The entire manufacturing process can be put into place right in Turkey using the reformulated ingredients. If it really is less expensive, it's likely to happen. Unless, of course, Evyap is the one company on the planet that isn't interested in reducing costs and making more money, as a result.

This sounds a lot like the discussions around a Tabac reformulation that was never going to happen.

 

[Ratso]

Soylent Green!

I thought the same thing. You’re showing your age. Is it time to go home?

 

[Ratso]

Soylent Green!

Wait a minute. Soylent green isn’t vegan.