Nobody talks about business casual clothes.

[supershaver]

I need to find some advice on business casual clothing. I'm talking about pants, button shirts, ties, no jacket. This is the accepted outfit for where I work (engineering). I've recently been researching a lot about men's fashion lately. I'm beginning to acquire the nice dress shirts and suits, shoes, etc. But until I can commit to that, I have to stick to business casual. I say this because I can wear suits to work and it won't be that big a deal, but it will be weird for people initially. The other thing is that until i get a couple of suits, i wouldn't want to wear a suit one day and then business casual for a few days. Then it will be like, "Why did he wear a suit on Tuesday?"

Anyway, my main problem with business casual is the fit. The shirts I get are usually way to big. I'm tall and have an athletic shape (like a basketball player). I have long arms and not that big a neck. So the shirts with long arms have huge necks, and the shirts with good necks have too short arms. And on top of this, finding a slim fit with those numbers makes it nearly impossible. I just did a tour of Macy's, Nordstrom, Banana Republic. They had nice stuff, but nothing in my size off the shelf. So, do I have to do what I'm going to do with suit shirts? That is, get it custom fitted off one of the websites? I guess so. How about colors? For business casual, should the shirts be a little more bold or ornate that suit shirts because they will be worn without jackets, and possibly without a tie?

And for pants, where's a good place for pants without the suit ensemble? What are some good suggestions for casual pants? Obviously, I wouldn't want to spend as much for those as for suit pants.

Anyway, i find that people here focus mostly on suits, and business casual gets neglected. Even in the books I'm reading right now (Dressing the Man, Dress for Success) they focus almost exclusively on suits as well. So advice in this area is appreciated thanks.

 

[*King G*]

JC Penny has a tall department i believe.

 

[stobes21]

On a day to day basis I dress to the more formal end of business casual: slacks, dress shirt, tie, and dress shoes. My formula so far has been to have a nice rotation of grey and black pants and then bring in more patterns and colors with my shirts and ties (nothing outrageous, but I get bored very quickly with plain white and blue with basic repp stripes). I don't have a good pair of brown dress shoes, so so far I have avoided wearing brown and olive pants. Eventually I'll get some though.

As for shirts, I would first see if some of the "athletic" or "slim" cut shirts work for you. If not then you're probably going to need to go custom. Within that there are really 2 options: one is to go to a local tailor you trust and pay for either alterations to off the rack shirts or for entirely custom made shirts. The other is to get accurate measurements of your body and order online. I suspect the first option will end up giving you a more reliably fit shirt but cost you more, and the second will save you some money but you may have to send several shirts back or eat the cost of some imperfect ones until they get it right.

Brooks Brothers does custom made shirts, and if I were in your position I would consider getting a couple of shirts made there. If they are perfect find a decent online tailor and send one of the BB shirts in for them to duplicate. Get the same shirt made in a variety of fabrics and you may just get the best of both worlds.

 

[leighton]

Only difference to me is no jacket. Or sport coats.

 

[StylinLA]

Not sure how big a town you're in, but you're a good candidate for custom shirts it sounds like. Could make a big difference in fit.

I've not dealt with any of the online custom shirt makers. I'm sure some in here have. Maybe if you got a tailor to help you take the measurements to provide the online shirt maker it would help.

In Los Angeles, there are a number of choices. Some very high end, and some pretty reasonable Hong Kong shirt makers. Prices at the low end ranged from about $70 per shirt to $150- depending on fabric chosen. They were pretty nice shirts and they fit teriffic.

 

[mparker762]

The other thing is that until i get a couple of suits, i wouldn't want to wear a suit one day and then business casual for a few days. Then it will be like, "Why did he wear a suit on Tuesday?"

If your suit is the basic navy wool job then all you need are shirts and ties, and you can wear it every day; just exchange it for the business casual on friday while the suit is being dry cleaned -- why do you think fridays are "casual fridays"? . This is one of the beauties of the suit.

 

[azmark]

I use my window pane pattern suit jackets as casual with some kakis or jeans. They look better than solid patterns or pin stripes.

 

[Doc4]

Anyway, my main problem with business casual is the fit. The shirts I get are usually way to big. I'm tall and have an athletic shape (like a basketball player). I have long arms and not that big a neck. So the shirts with long arms have huge necks, and the shirts with good necks have too short arms. And on top of this, finding a slim fit with those numbers makes it nearly impossible. I just did a tour of Macy's, Nordstrom, Banana Republic. They had nice stuff, but nothing in my size off the shelf. So, do I have to do what I'm going to do with suit shirts? That is, get it custom fitted off one of the websites? I guess so. How about colors? For business casual, should the shirts be a little more bold or ornate that suit shirts because they will be worn without jackets, and possibly without a tie?

For the longsleeved shirts ... can you go with the rolled-up sleeve look? That'd allow you to focus on getting the right neck/shoulder fit, and if the sleeves are too short, a couple flips of the cuff and no one will know.

Have you considered polo/golf shirts? Again, you are able to avoid the sleeve-length issue since you'd be short-sleeving it.


If you are going to order shirts online, be carefull that you get someone who is taking your chest & waist measurements, not just collar and sleeve, as otherwise they will likely hear "thirty-nine inch arms" and figure you are built like Skipper, not Gilligan. This goes for dress shirts too, of course.

 

[leighton]

Have you tried Brooks Brothers Extra Slim or Slim fit line? They go up to 37 with 16.5 neck.

Sorry to say this, but you haven't looked very hard. Only Nordstrom's has any decent selection, and even then, right now they are cleared out due to their winter sales in all the ones in my city.

Other men's stores to check out: Joseph A Banks if your financially challenged (just wait for a sale, they do one each week). Neiman Marcus, Ralph Lauren, & Saks 5th if your financially endowed. Unfortunately, thats about it for cross country, big name men's wear. I like Brooks Brothers during their sales.

Online stores: Charles Tyrwhitt, Paul Frederick, and some other English companies.

 

[supershaver]

Thanks leighton, I'll try out your suggestions. I'll try Brooks Brothers soon. You're right in that I haven't tried hard. but it's not due to lack of effort, really. More like lack of knowledge. I have JUST started to get into all of this. So far, in the last few months, I've gotten a decent casual shoe (for jeans), a nice wool sweater, a nice casual half-zip top, and that's pretty much it. Everything else in my wardrobe is pretty mediocre and will eventually be replaced in the next year or so. I've already started with the Delray, which is my first decent shoe purchase.

Next will be a suit, a 3-4 nice dress shirts, some ties, socks, and another shoe or two. This will be the beginning. Come 2011, I should be a striking gentlemen.

 

[leighton]

If you feel like splurging, I highly recommend the BB MTM shirts. If they don't get it right, they will make it right. Thus, you can buy 3-4 shirts at one time without worrying. Ralph Lauren is the same, but I'm pretty sure they cost significantly more than BB. I haven't asked, I know how much their OTR costs. BB starts at $150 IIRC, a very good price for in person measuring and the backing of BB.

Robert Talbott wool socks are the best value I've found for the money. You can get them for $12 if your patient. Otherwise, RL or BB socks are good. For expensive socks, Marcoliani gets the best reviews. For cheap wool socks, I like the Gold Toe Premium line. Yes, wool socks > cotton socks IMO. Wool won't stay wet and still breathes. Fake fibers don't breathe too good.

For your suit, I again recommend Brooks Brothers just because their staff is usually well knowledgeable and they will make sure you are happy. But if you've got the money, RL purple label is freaking nice. BB MTM suits are also a good option. RL also has a MTM option, but once again, knew the price is out of my range, so never bothered to ask. But the JAB executive line is a work horse and incredibly cheap during their monthly buy one get three free deal or whatever.

I like Brooks Brother's ties. At their semi annual sale, they are $40.

 

[supershaver]

Thanks, that's good advice. I've noted it.
i guess there's no reason to have different pants for casual use, since it's just a matter of having the jacket or not.
I like wool, but for socks, it might too much of a hassle for me. I know me, and I'm not going to want to wash and let dry socks every week. I was going to start a thread on this, but then I saw your sock thread a few pages back. Maybe I'll go the Costco way on that. What I don't like about Costco is that my foot size is right at th edge of that 6-12 range and sometimes the socks are too small. The other thing is that I don't think they sell OTC socks, which is what I want.

Man, I love those clothes at Robert Talbott. Very nice.

 

[leighton]

Actually, I've been throwing the wool blends into the washing machine at the "delicates" setting and air drying them. So far so good. Other people say the same thing.

As for the pants, you can do that, but be aware that your pants will wear out faster. But if the suit isn't too expensive, not a big deal because the jacket wasn't going to last particularly long anyway. (it will bubble eventually (unless I'm wrong and recent fusings no longer bubble...))

 

[supershaver]

Good to know. i definitely will try out the wool socks. Actually, after reading about them here, I'm looking forward to them. These cotton or other socks I'm currently wearing are crap, and they look and feel lame. I'm sure I'll welcome the comfort and breathability of wool.
The thing with socks is that you have to wash them all the time. With pants, you don't. I don't know how often you guys wash your pants, but i could go two weeks without washing pants. heck, i could probably go a month.