New Plant-Based Synthetic from Mühle

[DarkSpy]

I've got to get something off my chest.
I've bought a STF brush in 2020 I liked it so much that I decided to buy just the knot to make my own brush. Two years later (2022) I bought two knots (there were two options with no description to the differences). Just looking at them, they seemed different. Shaving, I would say, had a small difference (slightly less backbone on the newer one). Unfortunately I never had both brushes in the same place to do a direct comparison.
The newer version has the whiter top part, like @apshaveco mentioned, but the 2020 version does not.

The brush I bought in 2020 was this:

And the 2022 looks more like the 3rd image by apshaveco or the 2 brushes on the left in the official Muhle website:

Does anyone else noticed a difference in recent years? I only have minimal experience with brushes from this brand with only two buys.

I already mentioned this before, but I feel that Muhle is one of those companies that tweaks their products and doesn't tell the consumer. Case in point the Rocca. It was the community that labeled the versions (if I'm not mistaken) and demanded a better product, for that matter.
Meaning that I have serious doubts when we talk about the v2 in STFv2.

Maybe @Rudy Vey can help me shade some light on my doubts, has he has seen this knot more than the majority of people (I'm guessing).

 

[Rudy Vey]

I've got to get something off my chest.
I've bought a STF brush in 2020 I liked it so much that I decided to buy just the knot to make my own brush. Two years later (2022) I bought two knots (there were two options with no description to the differences). Just looking at them, they seemed different. Shaving, I would say, had a small difference (slightly less backbone on the newer one). Unfortunately I never had both brushes in the same place to do a direct comparison.
The newer version has the whiter top part, like @apshaveco mentioned, but the 2020 version does not.

The brush I bought in 2020 was this:

And the 2022 looks more like the 3rd image by apshaveco or the 2 brushes on the left in the official Muhle website:

Does anyone else noticed a difference in recent years? I only have minimal experience with brushes from this brand with only two buys.

I already mentioned this before, but I feel that Muhle is one of those companies that tweaks their products and doesn't tell the consumer. Case in point the Rocca. It was the community that labeled the versions (if I'm not mistaken) and demanded a better product, for that matter.
Meaning that I have serious doubts when we talk about the v2 in STFv2.

Maybe @Rudy Vey can help me shade some light on my doubts, has he has seen this knot more than the majority of people (I'm guessing).

I think I have posted this before, but according to Muehle - prior to these new partially plant based fibers - there were no different versions of the STF knots. Somehow this came up a few years ago on the shaving fora that there are different versions, but they confirmed twice to me this is not true. I use the STF knots probably well over 10 years and did not see or feel anything different.
The new knots with some 37% plant based fibers will replace the STF, and one may call them now version 2.
Due to my COVID diagnosis I have not unpacked the plant based sample knot they shipped to me and it arrived Monday, still sitting unpacked in its box. So, I have to wait to Friday....

 

[Rudy Vey]

My testing of the new, partially plant based synthetic knot was a bit delayed due to Covid, but I finally got to use it today for the first time.
A couple of things first: the knot is whiter than the STF, which has a very faint yellowish hue, this new one is definitely whiter, can be seen good between the plug and the dark band.
The knot itself is shorter than the old STF. I had a handle laying around that was drilled for a STF, and the resulting loft was only 51/52 mm instead of the 55 I am aiming for. Easy fix with a cork slice. Measuring the two side by side it shows the new plant based knot is about 4-5 mm shorter.
I set mine at the same loft as the STF, so 54/55 mm. In use I think it is a slight touch softer as the STF, otherwise, not knowing this is a different knot, I could not say I can pick out which one is which.
Overall, I think it is as great a knot as the STF is. In my opinion the STD and the new version STF-Plant (37% plant based) are still the best synthetics there are. Not sure when I am start using the new knots as I just had loaded up earlier his year with a years supply of the STF.

 

[luvmysuper]

People who do 3D printing have been using plant based plastic for years.
PLA.
Also "renewable" as you can grow new plants.
It's not 100% plant because you can't make plastic out of 100% anything, except of course other plastic.
I would guess that these new "plant based synthetic fibers" are just some tweaked version of PLA plastic.

 

[thombrogan]

The knot itself is shorter than the old STF.

The Mühle people are trying to take my G5C monies away!

They’ll have to make to make their 19mm even proportionately shorter and @apshaveco will have to offer an etched handle with an ankylosaurus skeleton for them to succeed, but they’re trying

 

[apshaveco]

Bumping this thread to provide everyone with an update. I am actively working with Muhle in an attempt to get them to produce an "XXL" size for me and our community at 27mm. They told me they are trialing this and will let me know if it's feasible for them to produce. A hopefully exciting step forward!

Once confirmed if it's possible, I'll have these plant based STF knots available for everyone to try.

 

[Omega48]

"XXL" size for me and our community at 27mm

That is fantastic news !!!
Thank you.

 

[clickity-click]

Interesting thread. Purchased another STF before Muhle transitions to the new 'plant based' fibres in their STF knots. I suspect the change is more to do with energy costs — Germany has been paying three to four times more for its Gas, post Nord Stream 2 sabotage — than improving the knots performance. It seems to me, that Muhle's track-record of new product introductions is not a good one and their communications are often evasive — the debacle over the Rocca being a case in point, where consumers effectively were testing an underdeveloped product for several years. Surprised the new knots are 4-5mm shorter. In my opinion the length of Muhle and Simpson synthetic knots is what gives them there unique characteristics - size matters. I will wait for members real-world usage views on Muhle's new fibres — there is no conflict of interest — before taking the plunge.

 

[Obetron Rex]

I have an STF XL knot stored on the shelf for the future as well. I've found product changes are rarely better no matter how many times they say they are.

 

[Badgo]

I'm a big fan of the current STF knots. They don't have the scritch of the scritchy badgers, if that's what you like most. But they do work well with everything from creams to triple milled soaps and have more scrubbiness than most synthetics I've tried. I hope the new fibers are just as good as the old and this isn't like when all the European soaps changed formulations to eliminate tallow.

Very interested to hear your thoughts once you receive a sample or two.

You know its weird- I know STF is prized for being soft and badger like aesthetically- I find it does have some scrub and scritch and scratch and I really like it. now maybe thats me cause I am a softy and sensitive skin- but I think it really does balance the exfoliating factor and softness excellent.

 

[Badgo]

I have an STF XL knot stored on the shelf for the future as well. I've found product changes are rarely better no matter how many times they say they are.

really!? but I swear v1 of most synthetics are inferior no?? like even v1 STF wasn't as good. Or what about plissoft and plissoft STF- I swear if anything new innovations in synthetics are why they are even holding a candle to realy badger these days. I am almost more nervous they are better and I already have too many brushes XD

 

[Badgo]

So it’s arrived. Haven’t had a shave with it yet as it’s drying in a handle as I type this but it’s quite an interesting knot. My initial thoughts are that I’m impressed. There’s a few subtle differences I can detect off the bat, colour being the biggest with the tips whiter on the original STF, but overall the feel is remarkably similar, considering over 1/3 of this knot is now using plant based materials. Quite stunning how similar they are given this fact. More details to come as I get a few shaves in it. Drop me a line if you have any questions!
View attachment 1797626
View attachment 1797628
View attachment 1797629View attachment 1797630

Interesting the new STF looks visually a bit like platinum fiber although I know it's not. Is it just me or do other people really like to use synthetics that have a "realism factor"? Can you confirm if this has still a realistic quality to it?

 

[Badgo]

The STF is definitely more splay friendly and as such has way less backbone. The firmness of the fibers is significantly less.

I compare more knots to the STF here [link below] (will update it with the plant based STF once I try it out a bit more)

Ultimate Synthetic Knot Properties Quick Guide

Welcome to AP Shave Co! We specialize in synthetic shaving brushes and synthetic shaving brush knots, with affordable product pricing and shipping everywhere in the world. Visit our site today!

apshaveco.com

I found that 25 mm uncommonly tough display compared to the smaller knots like the 21 mm travel brush. Is this common or just me? Or maybe it's not that I find it tough to splay perhaps doesn't have a good flow through which doesn't really add up but it's how I'm experiencing it. hmm?

 

[Badgo]

Until someone finds a mosquito in amber at least

This actually sounds like a really interesting not handle concept: amber with an insect stuck inside? yes please! like a Jurassic Park grade shaving brush lol

 

[Galibier_Numero_Un]

I found that 25 mm uncommonly tough display compared to the smaller knots like the 21 mm travel brush. Is this common or just me? Or maybe it's not that I find it tough to splay perhaps doesn't have a good flow through which doesn't really add up but it's how I'm experiencing it. hmm?

I've never experienced smaller STFs - having two XLs, so I can't compare this for myself, but it's the opposite of everything I've read about the STF, and what led me to the 25mm XL. I have no regrets ;-)

In writing this, I assume auto correct changed "to splay" to "display".

... Thom

 

[Wgg2017]

You know its weird- I know STF is prized for being soft and badger like aesthetically- I find it does have some scrub and scritch and scratch and I really like it. now maybe thats me cause I am a softy and sensitive skin- but I think it really does balance the exfoliating factor and softness excellent.

The STF definitely has more scritch than most synthetics I’ve used, but it can’t compare to the scritchiest badgers, imho.

 

[rsp1202]

The STF definitely has more scritch than most synthetics I’ve used, but it can’t compare to the scritchiest badgers, imho.

I've had five STFs from last year, two vendors. None of them exhibited the slightest amount of scritch. Go figure.

 

[Galibier_Numero_Un]

I've had five STFs from last year, two vendors. None of them exhibited the slightest amount of scritch. Go figure.

Same here as but "only" 2 STFs - both XL/25mm.

... Thom

 

[Rudy Vey]

The STF definitely has more scritch than most synthetics I’ve used, but it can’t compare to the scritchiest badgers, imho.

This is odd. Having used STF knots for 10+ years and sold many brushes with them, I never felt any scritch/scratch and none of my customers have reported anything like this. It always amazes me how different our perceived feeling of brushes/razors/blades are - it is purely subjective to the individual.

 

[Badgo]

I've never experienced smaller STFs - having two XLs, so I can't compare this for myself, but it's the opposite of everything I've read about the STF, and what led me to the 25mm XL. I have no regrets ;-)

In writing this, I assume auto correct changed "to splay" to "display".

... Thom

ah yeah, I am now unable to edit it seems but yes- I meant "to splay". Yeah its shocking really- I have found the travel knot at 21mm just about perfect from the start- the speed at which it forms a lather is astonishing and I have found the XL is still in its early days maybe needing to "open up" or something.