I'm glad I bought some STF XL knots before they change. It sounds to me just like removing tallow from shaving soaps was, sacrificing the product to be more PC.
New Plant-Based Synthetic from Mühle
- Thread starter apshaveco
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I just have my own shave brush farm...
The other benefit it is shave ready....No soaking required.
BFX
The other benefit it is shave ready....No soaking required.
BFX
I guess the 37% that’s plant based is biodegradable? I wonder how long it takes to degrade. I only use synthetics but, they seem to be getting more and more expensive. Having said that, I’m curious about this one and, depending on price, just may give it a whirl when it’s available
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- #24
It should be the same price as the STFv2!
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- #25
Small Update: I’ve had 1-2 lathers on the Plant-Based STF now. Here are biggest differences I’ve noticed other than color:
1) Water Retention - the Plant-Based STF retains more water than the STFv2. As such, you probably just need to use a little less water with it which isn’t a bad thing, it’s just different. Haven’t have a chance to test this yet though. Due to the increased water retention of the plant based fibers I also find it slower to dry.
2) Fiber Stiffness - at around the same loft I find the Plant-Based STF to be a bit less stiff than the STFv2. So if you like a super splay friendly knot like the Wald, the Plant-Based STF could be your knot. However, you can probably counteract the lessened stiffness by just setting the knot a bit deeper. Though that’d require a pretty deep opening, about 22mm probably, which is abnormal for a majority of handles.
I’ll see as I continue to test if there’s any additional major differences once broken in, this could just be it.
In an ideal world, Muhle let’s us all have both the STFv2 and Plant-Based STF to pick from. But I’ll need to dig a little more to see if that’ll be the case.
1) Water Retention - the Plant-Based STF retains more water than the STFv2. As such, you probably just need to use a little less water with it which isn’t a bad thing, it’s just different. Haven’t have a chance to test this yet though. Due to the increased water retention of the plant based fibers I also find it slower to dry.
2) Fiber Stiffness - at around the same loft I find the Plant-Based STF to be a bit less stiff than the STFv2. So if you like a super splay friendly knot like the Wald, the Plant-Based STF could be your knot. However, you can probably counteract the lessened stiffness by just setting the knot a bit deeper. Though that’d require a pretty deep opening, about 22mm probably, which is abnormal for a majority of handles.
I’ll see as I continue to test if there’s any additional major differences once broken in, this could just be it.
In an ideal world, Muhle let’s us all have both the STFv2 and Plant-Based STF to pick from. But I’ll need to dig a little more to see if that’ll be the case.
@apshaveco Are all the currently available STF knots v2?
Thanks for the update! Does this mean that the new knot also holds more lather than the previous version? I see that complaint often from those that face lather in regards to synthetics.
Nope, the new version will replace the existing version, just got an email from them this morning as reply to my question about this. Should be getting samples soon.
The opening always needed to be between 20-25 mm deep for the 25 mm STF, depending on the requested loft; mostly I drill 22 mm deep for the preferred loft of 55 mm.
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- #29
The ones Rudy and I would have right now would be STFv2’s - yes
There are plant-based polymers that do not degrade any more than traditional plastics, or at least not more noticeably so; they're just made from plant material instead of petrol for raw materials. I suspect that's what's in this one but I could be wrong. There's so many materials out there now. I'm curious why they didn't go all the way and use it for 100% of the fibers — if it was a cost thing, or something about bristle characteristics, or what.
Yes, this would definitely be very interesting if it was more like animal hair knots in water retention qualities. Depending on how different it is I would be very interested in trying it out.
It would give me an excuse to get another brush... I'm not sure if that's good or bad.
In 6+yrs face lathering with synthetic knots I can't remember a time where I haven't had enough lather for 5+ passes!! I have been a steady 2.5 pass/shave guy in the last couple years and every shave I squeeze out the remaining lather before rinsing and I squeeze out what would easily be enough lather for many more passes. Shave soap is cheap compared to some things in this hobby and there's absolutely no reason to run out of lather in 3 passes!! I'd say if you are running out of lather on a 3 pass shave your really doing yourself a disservice by trying to conserve your shave soap... Then again I'm different than most!!
I think it might be less about conserving lather than not dropping it. But that's just my impression. It would still be an interesting change from other synthetics either way.
Are you talking about that there's so much lather on the brush handle you are in fear of dropping the brush? I cringe when I watch video's of some people while lathering and lather is running down the brush over the hand and down ones arm... If lather or water even gets half way down the handle for me, muchless on my fingers, I'm stopping and cleaning the handle off so it doesn't get to that point. That's just common sense and the same applies while handling your razor.
Thanks, just ordered one before they’re gone.
Good question. I’m curious about that too. There’s a reason but, not sure if we’ll ever know. Judging by the generic answers Muhle seem to reply with. Still, I’m looking forward to the reviews coming in from people who have used older versions and this new version. @apshaveco please keep us posted as you continue to test it out.
I bowl lather so it's not an issue for me personally. Anecdotally, I see in synthetic brush threads that the smaller synthetics seem to get complaints from face latherers that they don't hold soap like badgers and boars do. I was just curious if the new version held more lather in addition to more water.
I should have my sample knot arrive by tomorrow, just got a UPS confirmation email.
I learned very early on with synthetics that less water is more. I'm not sure that I would want my synthetics to hold more water as it would probably wind up all over me much the way it did in the beginning!!
That's been my experience with all of my synthetics as well: an Oumo ST-1 from Rudy, a Mühle STF from the mother company, two Synbads from Andrew, and I expect no different from another STF (incoming this week) from Andrew.
... Thom
D
I did the same lol
