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Right on both counts.There's only one way to find out, and it's expensive!
never-stop-learning's Quest for Knowledge
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Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
There's only one way to find out, and it's expensive!
Compared to what?
The Lambda Athena is a bargain in my opinion. One vendor (in France) offers a somewhat similar box for their razor. The price for just the box is $150 or thereabouts.
The few Athenas I've seen offered on the previously used marketplace have been snapped up making rental fees very low.
Merry Christmas this 4th day of Christmas & Happy Shaves,
Jim
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Expensive is a relative term. The Athena is certainly not expensive compared to the Sailor.
Big caveat is that I don't usually like low blade exposure razors. Is the Athena the exception? That's what I'm pondering.
How is the R41 working for you? Based on what I see I think the design is very similar.
Guido
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I don't consider the R41 to be a low blade exposure design. Am I missing something?
Ah! Wait… the exposure vs gap thing again, but anyways - aren’t these razors similar in nature and thus if you can shave with the R41, the Athena should be in the same ballpark? Blade gap is .34mm. Exposure 0. R41 is .023mm in blade gap.
Not enabling you into buying one. Unless you want to of course, I am just curious on your thoughts.
Guido
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
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- #1,408
From what I can see in @Chan Eil Whiskers pics of the Athena (and from the Athena's specified Zero blade exposure), the R41 shows considerably more blade.
This leads me to believe that the Athena will behave more like the Henson and Winning razors (which do not work on my face/skin/beard) as opposed to the Ti Blackbird (which is my Alpha Big Dog DE razor).
In any event, serious consideration of the Athena won't happen until I've thoroughly familiarized myself with the Rocnel Sailor and decided where it sits in my overall rankings. I kind of took a flier on the Sailor, as big heavy razors are not my usual preference. If the Sailor does not surpass the shaves I get with my Top Tier razors (all of which cost considerably less than the Sailor), then I have other decisions to make before I can justify cruising down another rabbit hole.
Excellent David! And I remember a conversation I had earlier this year with a certain moderator who told me at least that you should enjoy what you have and be good with it. All sound advice! 
I very much like the design of the Athena, but I am not sure it will be better than my Ti95.
Guido
I very much like the design of the Athena, but I am not sure it will be better than my Ti95.
Guido
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
From what I can see in @Chan Eil Whiskers pics of the Athena (and from the Athena's specified Zero blade exposure), the R41 shows considerably more blade.
This leads me to believe that the Athena will behave more like the Henson and Winning razors (which do not work on my face/skin/beard) as opposed to the Ti Blackbird (which is my Alpha Big Dog DE razor).
In any event, serious consideration of the Athena won't happen until I've thoroughly familiarized myself with the Rocnel Sailor and decided where it sits in my overall rankings. I kind of took a flier on the Sailor, as big heavy razors are not my usual preference. If the Sailor does not surpass the shaves I get with my Top Tier razors (all of which cost considerably less than the Sailor), then I have other decisions to make before I can justify cruising down another rabbit hole.
I've not used the Henson at all. I did use the Winning Razor a time or two before giving it away to a grandson.
To me, the Athena is very much unlike the Winning Razor.
Yes, I can see some similarities, but mostly I'd say the Athena is its own thing. Unique amongst razors I've used.
I hope someone who knows the Henson and knows the Winning Razor much better than me, and also knows the Athena can chime in.
Excellent David! And I remember a conversation I had earlier this year with a certain moderator who told me at least that you should enjoy what you have and be good with it. All sound advice!
I very much like the design of the Athena, but I am not sure it will be better than my Ti95.
Guido
It's a lot better for me than the 95. That means nothing in terms of your skin and whiskers, so I'm just reporting.
Happy shaves,
Jim
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- #1,411
Thank you Jim. Your comments and experiences are very much appreciated.
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20221228
365 Shaves in 2022: 362 of 362 = 100%
DecemBOAR 2022
Razor: Rocnel Sailor
Blade: Perma-Sharp (4)
Brush: Zenith B34 Butterscotch Chubby
Bowl: Captain's Choice Copper
Lather: Canada
Aftershave: Stetson Aftershave Splash
Fragrance: Stetson Cologne Splash
Balm: CeraVe Moisturizing Cream (applied at bedtime)
Shave number 4 with the Rocnel Sailor. Used the following settings: wtg 3, atg 3, xtg 3, touch-ups 1.5 (neck), Zero Dot ("goatee" areas). Setting 3 for the main passes worked better than changing the settings. For touch-ups, stayed with the 1.5 setting on my neck and the Zero Dot for the "goatee" areas (upper lip, mouth, chin and soul patch). Really backed off on the amount of buffing around my mouth. No matter how much I stretch and contort my face, the Sailor is not nimble & maneuverable enough to get the areas around my mouth (especially the corners). So I've resolved to accept what the Sailor can give me: A DFS level shave that, quite frankly, I'm having to work far too hard to get. The Rocnel Sailor is a beautiful razor that is impeccably crafted. I'm beginning to wonder, though, if it's a razor that will suit my face/skin/beard on a daily basis. I'll be using a different protocol tomorrow for how I perform my passes, using something similar to what I use with the Stirling and Roedter razors. Patience remains the best approach - surrender is not an option!
Canada Shave Soap rocks! Love it! Top tier all the way!
Plenty written in my Journal regarding the Zenith B34 Butterscotch Chubby brush, Stetson AS Splash and Stetson Cologne Splash. I hold all three in very high regard.
My griping and concerns notwithstanding, I still ended up with an excellent shave!
365 Shaves in 2022: 362 of 362 = 100%
DecemBOAR 2022
Razor: Rocnel Sailor
Blade: Perma-Sharp (4)
Brush: Zenith B34 Butterscotch Chubby
Bowl: Captain's Choice Copper
Lather: Canada
Aftershave: Stetson Aftershave Splash
Fragrance: Stetson Cologne Splash
Balm: CeraVe Moisturizing Cream (applied at bedtime)
Shave number 4 with the Rocnel Sailor. Used the following settings: wtg 3, atg 3, xtg 3, touch-ups 1.5 (neck), Zero Dot ("goatee" areas). Setting 3 for the main passes worked better than changing the settings. For touch-ups, stayed with the 1.5 setting on my neck and the Zero Dot for the "goatee" areas (upper lip, mouth, chin and soul patch). Really backed off on the amount of buffing around my mouth. No matter how much I stretch and contort my face, the Sailor is not nimble & maneuverable enough to get the areas around my mouth (especially the corners). So I've resolved to accept what the Sailor can give me: A DFS level shave that, quite frankly, I'm having to work far too hard to get. The Rocnel Sailor is a beautiful razor that is impeccably crafted. I'm beginning to wonder, though, if it's a razor that will suit my face/skin/beard on a daily basis. I'll be using a different protocol tomorrow for how I perform my passes, using something similar to what I use with the Stirling and Roedter razors. Patience remains the best approach - surrender is not an option!
Canada Shave Soap rocks! Love it! Top tier all the way!
Plenty written in my Journal regarding the Zenith B34 Butterscotch Chubby brush, Stetson AS Splash and Stetson Cologne Splash. I hold all three in very high regard.
My griping and concerns notwithstanding, I still ended up with an excellent shave!
Perhaps you just need to choose a higher setting when shaving the corners of the mouth /soul patch area. Perhaps the zero dot is just too narrow for your critical area...
Just a thought.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
David, let me explain the reasoning behind how I use the Sailor in a beard reduction manner.
My first setting which is unlikely to be your first setting tends to be maybe 1.5 or 2.5. It's designed to basically go N-S, more or less WTG, and get most of the whiskers. The setting is just one which does the job and is comfortable. Otherwise it's just a number. One the first setting, I might also go R-L, or E-W on my neck; on my upper lip I might go E-W, and W-E on this setting.
My second setting is very aggressive, or highly efficient, and is used S-N, more or less ATG. Mostly I use this setting on my neck, chin, soul patch. In these areas it's comfortable. Comfort coupled with high efficiency. I also use the second setting N-S on my upper lip where it is comfortable.
On my soul patch I'm employing the puffed out skin, trumpeting technique. N-S and S-N. That area is very hard to smooth for me.
The second setting can be very high. I might use 4 or 5 or 6 or even 8 or 10.
The most sensitive area for me by far is my upper lip. Without a lot of beard reduction having already happened I can't go near it ATG with any razor.
For the third setting I always use the Zero Dot. With it I can and do go ATG, S-N on my upper lip and in comfort. It's comfortable and it gets the rest of the whiskers. I use the Zero Dot too for buffing and such on my soul patch and chin and anywhere I want or need to use buffing.
This may or may not work for you or anyone but me, but I wanted to more thoroughly explain what I do and the reasoning behind it in case it might help you figure out how to best use your Sailor.
Merry Christmas this 5th day of Christmas & Happy Shaves,
Jim
My first setting which is unlikely to be your first setting tends to be maybe 1.5 or 2.5. It's designed to basically go N-S, more or less WTG, and get most of the whiskers. The setting is just one which does the job and is comfortable. Otherwise it's just a number. One the first setting, I might also go R-L, or E-W on my neck; on my upper lip I might go E-W, and W-E on this setting.
My second setting is very aggressive, or highly efficient, and is used S-N, more or less ATG. Mostly I use this setting on my neck, chin, soul patch. In these areas it's comfortable. Comfort coupled with high efficiency. I also use the second setting N-S on my upper lip where it is comfortable.
On my soul patch I'm employing the puffed out skin, trumpeting technique. N-S and S-N. That area is very hard to smooth for me.
The second setting can be very high. I might use 4 or 5 or 6 or even 8 or 10.
The most sensitive area for me by far is my upper lip. Without a lot of beard reduction having already happened I can't go near it ATG with any razor.
For the third setting I always use the Zero Dot. With it I can and do go ATG, S-N on my upper lip and in comfort. It's comfortable and it gets the rest of the whiskers. I use the Zero Dot too for buffing and such on my soul patch and chin and anywhere I want or need to use buffing.
This may or may not work for you or anyone but me, but I wanted to more thoroughly explain what I do and the reasoning behind it in case it might help you figure out how to best use your Sailor.
Merry Christmas this 5th day of Christmas & Happy Shaves,
Jim
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- #1,415
First of all, please don't take my comments as being critical of the Sailor. It is an impeccably designed and manufactured DE razor. The question in my mind is: Is it the right razor for me?
My beard is very coarse, wiry, fairly thick, grows fairly fast and grows in a multitude of different directions:
Cheeks: wtg = n->s, atg = s->n, xtg = e->w/w->e
Neck: wtg = s->n, atg = ne->sw/nw->se, xtg = e->w/w->e
Upper lip: wtg = n->s, atg = s->n, xtg = e->w/w->e
Soul patch: wtg = n->s, atg = s->n, xtg = e->w/w->e
Jawline, chin, corners of my mouth and three areas of my neck require strokes in ~5 directions to banish all of the hair from my face. Having a highly nimble and maneuverable razor really helps in these areas.
Thank you both for offering the benefit of your collective experience with the Sailor. I will consider how to incorporate your experiences to improve my Sailor shaving process.
Thank you for offering this advice. I will open things up on the touchups.
Thank you Jim. Appreciate your advice.
My beard is very coarse, wiry, fairly thick, grows fairly fast and grows in a multitude of different directions:
Cheeks: wtg = n->s, atg = s->n, xtg = e->w/w->e
Neck: wtg = s->n, atg = ne->sw/nw->se, xtg = e->w/w->e
Upper lip: wtg = n->s, atg = s->n, xtg = e->w/w->e
Soul patch: wtg = n->s, atg = s->n, xtg = e->w/w->e
Jawline, chin, corners of my mouth and three areas of my neck require strokes in ~5 directions to banish all of the hair from my face. Having a highly nimble and maneuverable razor really helps in these areas.
Thank you both for offering the benefit of your collective experience with the Sailor. I will consider how to incorporate your experiences to improve my Sailor shaving process.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
David, my beard map is all over the place especially on my neck. It reminds me of the shifting sands of the Sahara.
I simplified things to discuss how I use the Sailor.
Happy shaves,
Jim
I simplified things to discuss how I use the Sailor.
Happy shaves,
Jim
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- #1,417
Thank you Jim.
I think the biggest learning curve for me is the weight. With the nerve damage in my neck (and resultant loss of dexterity and grip in my hands), I've gotten really used to medium weight razors that are highly nimble and maneuverable. Easy to get into my problem areas.
The Sailor is quite heavy (by comparison), has a large head (by comparison) and is not very nimble and maneuverable (by comparison). I use a lot of j-hook and slide strokes with the Ti Vector and Ti Blackbird. That doesn't work as well with the Sailor.
I knew that the Sailor would be a bit of a challenge for me, knowing that the Sailor is radically different from the Ti Vector and the Ti Blackbird.
I think that @JAHE poses an interesting recommendation: open up more on the touchups.
I expect today's shave to go much better.
The Rocnel Sailor is exquisite eye-candy from afar, but you Blackland Ti Vector SB with @Rosseforp handle must be feeling secure from its lofty perch high above all the other Big Dog razors.
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A very true statement. The weight and balance of the Ti Vector with one of Doug’s GTx handles allows me to effortlessly remove the whiskers from my face.
The challenge is to see how close I can get with the Sailor.
As my Bride observed, the Sailor is beautiful eye candy and it's cheaper than a Ferrari.
I’ll enjoy both from afar, but I like the looks of the Rocnel Sailor more than most Ferraris.
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