Need some help...

[apathos]

Gentlemen,

You've all been a big help as I try to improve my shave. I've been working on DE shaving for just over two weeks now, and would like to ask some questions to try to achieve "the next level."

When I shave, I cannot get a certain section of my neck free of stubble. My neck beard grows in an almost straight line from my left ear to my right ear, and no matter the direction I go over it, I can't seem to even get the stubble off of it. The choice seems to be to either go for the stubble and take the skin with it; or leave it, and have stubble all day. Let me run through my routine quickly:

(I shave in the shower)

• Soak brush in mug
• Soak beard
• Shower stuff
• Soak beard again
• Wash face with gentle cleanser (I only do this sometimes--trying to see if it makes any difference for me, and it hasn't so far)
• Lather in hand with wet brush (Saville Row SR-204) [my lather is never as thick as I've seen in pictures here--not sure if I'm not doing it right, or if it's just because of our hard water]
• Wet face again
• Lather face
• Shave N-S, Rinse, Lather
• Shave Ear to ear, left to right, whole face (this is because of the direction of my neck beard--actually across the grain for my cheeks, but with the grain for my neck), Rinse, Lather
• Shave N-S, Rinse, Lather
• Brace myself
• Attempt to lightly shave neck right to left, against grain (Before I shave this direction, I can feel as much stubble here as on my cheeks before I even begin shaving them--this is after 3 passes on my neck!)
• Rinse face until blood on neck stops
• Go through day wincing every time my collar rubs on my neck. (of course, it did this with my M3 too, so I haven't lost much yet)

I use a gillette late 40's Super Speed with Merkur blades, and usually use Proraso green tube, though I'm beginning to rotate in some creams from the three T's that I just obtained.

I've also noticed my razor tends to "stutter" when I shave. Does this indicate wrong blade angle, or not having proper lubrication, or something else?

I appreciate any help you guys can give.


Jeff

 

[guenron]

Sounds like a bit of misery is presently at your door. First things first. Be the master of your lather! Get a decent sized coffee mug, put a large nurdle of Proraso in it (1.5 inchs?), and put your hot water-soaked brush into in and whip it! Whip it good! (Watchout for Oingo Boingo and such). Don't be satisfied until you have a ton of wet, thick lather. That may start things off a bit better. I am going to point you at the WORLD FAMOUS 4 pass description!
I am not telling you to use it, but peruse it! I too, as do many other gents, have whiskers on my neck that grow in gravity defying directions.
There are a few techniques for stretching ones skin to gain better razor traction, especially in areas like the neck. First get a good lather and then try a N-S pass while gently lifting the skin (raising it towards the top of ones head) from behind the razor and slowly stroking downward. This is the first installment in techniques to make life better thru lather.

 

[PoshRichM]

I diagnose Lather Issues, and Blade Technique Issues.

First, lather: I also have extremely hard water, and I've found that I need to use a bit more cream (good choice with Proraso green, BTW... it seems to do well with my hard water) and a bit more prolonged elbow grease when mixing up my lather. I also add a dash of table salt to the water I put in my hot pot each morning to help soften the water a bit. [Edit: heh, sounds like Ron and I are on the same wavelength!]

It's definitely possible to get the sort of lather volume and slickness you see in photos here if you make these corrections.

Second, blade technique. I have almost the same horizontal-grain problem you do, and still occasionally foul up and get irritated.

Here's what I suggest:

• Don't try to shave your problem area close for a day, perhaps two, to allow the abused skin to heal.
• Work on your lather and get your technique as close to perfect as you can. You're going to need maximum lubrication for this area if you're like me.
• When you start shaving the area again, pay particular attention to your blade angle. You probably need it "flatter" (shallower, handle closer to perpendicular to your face) than you think.
• Use short strokes, keep your chin high to maintain taut skin, and don't move too fast. It's easier to cut well if you're not fighting the momentum of the razor.

Good luck, and keep us posted on progress!

-Rich

 

[collinarose]

What razor/blade combination are you using?

-Collin

 

[apathos]

What razor/blade combination are you using?

-Collin

I use a gillette late 40's Super Speed with Merkur blades, and usually use Proraso green tube, though I'm beginning to rotate in some creams from the three T's that I just obtained.

 

[collinarose]

Sorry about that. I'm new to this as well so take this as my experience so far more so than advice. I was having the same problem you are having because my HD was not reducing the beard enough, even with a few passes, to allow me to go for the finishing pass without causing problems. I think if you are leaving too much stubble, prep/cream/angle/pressure may not be enough to solve the problem. So I switched to the Progress and practiced forms 1 and 2 until I could do them without irritation on the closest setting for a week. Then I added another form 2, still on the closest setting the next week. So on and so on until I could do one form 1 and two form 2 passes, making the setting more aggressive on each pass. This of course meant somewhat bad shaves for a few weeks because I was not making a form 3, or finishing pass. Now when I go to make the form 3 pass however, which for me was causing the most problems with the HD, I don't have the "stutter" issues I had before. I think someone here before, maybe Lerch, said that "skipping" or "stutter" is caused either by improper angle, not enough cutting power (i.e., not a sharp enough blade), too much beard left to cut, or some combination of these.

Hope this helps some.
-Collin

 

[apathos]

I think someone here before, maybe Lerch, said that "skipping" or "stutter" is caused either by improper angle, not enough cutting power (i.e., not a sharp enough blade), too much beard left to cut, or some combination of these.

Hope this helps some.
-Collin

That would certainly make some sense. I had not heard about stuttering being caused by too much beard left, but if that is true, then that would explain why it happens so consistently. By the time I get to the end of all my other passes, I still have full stubble on my neck. I'll try some of these suggestions immediately.

 

[collinarose]

Quick additional thought. You said you shave in the shower. If you are, you may want to try shaving without running water. It has helped me a lot to "hear" the shave. One way I could tell I had the beard down enough was that I was not hearing very much stubble being cut.

-Collin

 

[Bartelby]

All good advice. You might want to try another blade as well. I also use a SS Gillette. Because the Merkur blades used to skip and stutter a lot for me I switched and have no problems now.

Good luck. Let us know what worked.

 

[apathos]

All good advice. You might want to try another blade as well. I also use a SS Gillette. Because the Merkur blades used to skip and stutter a lot for me I switched and have no problems now.

Good luck. Let us know what worked.

If you don't mind me asking, what blade did you switch to? I tried some Personnas from Wal-mart, but wasn't impressed with them.

 

[vputz]

Just a minor technique suggestion:

If you have a very thick beard (sounds like you do), there are two things that helped me:

1) Dealing with the grain on your neck is like looking at the sun--don't stare directly at it! I have best success with one "with-the-grain" pass followed by an "across-the-grain" pass, but the cleanest pass is one sort of at "45 degrees against the grain"--if I go directly against the grain, it grabs and the softer skin on my neck allows the razor to lift up the hairs (and a bit of skin) and both grabs like mad and bleeds. Ick. But the 45-against-the-grain isn't too bad.

2) On the neck even more than on the face, the "slicing" stroke with the razor works nicely in reducing grab. Basically you can get this one of two ways; either hold the razor as you would and move it "diagonally" a bit, or tilt the razor a bit and pull it straight (both of these are the same thing, but feel conceptually a little different)--this is like the straight razor idea of leading with the point; what you're doing is a manual version of what the slant bar does--impart just a little bit of "slice" to the stroke. It really seems to cut down irritation on my neck and just plain shave better (on the shavemyface forums someone even found some old 1940's-or-so diagrams from Gillette illustrating this--the thread is here and the picture linked is here).

Also, careful how you stretch the skin--sometimes stretching the skin has the undesired effect of making the hair lie down even MORE than usual; try a few different directions to see which one makes the hair stand up best while also giving a good plane to shave. This can get a bit contortionistic...

Anyway, it helped me quite a bit, but careful with the diagonal stroke--if you make it too diagonal or forget even for a moment to keep the shaving stroke going and just let the blade slip sideways, it will sink into your lip like a hot knife into butter. Trust me on this.