Shaving ATG is no longer worth it for me.

[Galibier_Numero_Un]

...

I found the explanation here.

PS. The same study explains why shaving short hair (one day growth for instance) is better than long hair (two-day or more).

Thanks for posting the link.

Are you referring to figure 4, about halfway down the study which shows the more orthogonal the blade's angle is to the hair, the lower the failure probability?

I'm not sure what "better" means in this context: better blade longevity? More comfortable shave?

I can visualize more fractures producing more tugging, but the question I have, is when these fractures become significant. For example, do they mean that the blade will feel tuggy after the first pass or the 4th shave?

Of course, at the end of the day, we learn what works for our face ;-)

... Thom

 

[psfred]

I've been shaving ATG since 1975, definitely not an "internet thing".

My advice is to shave however you want, the goal is minimal (or no) irritation and a close enough shave to suit you. Nothing wrong with a beard either, I had one for at least 25 years before they were popular.

 

[Barley]

For many years my standard shaving routine was a single pass north-south. This meant that I was effectively shaving against the grain on the lower part of my neck. Even though I always got pretty good results, there were days when it just didn't feel comfortable.

Today I decided to stop this practice. From now on I will shave the lower part of my neck with the grain, so in an upward/north direction. Since I shave daily, I no longer see the benefit of shaving against the grain. Stubble will return and no one will be inspecting my face in my day to day life.

I guess there's some truth in the old adage to never shave against the grain. YMMV.

Exactly what I do. N-S except for lower neck, which is S-N. Except I do a 2nd pass (but not a third). The 2nd pass is mostly XTG.

 

[ErkRusselReserve]

Two pass shaver here, WTG (mapped) and then nose to ear on the face and sorta against the grain on my neck. The neck is harder to shave, so touch ups may be needed. The face is dead easy and two standard passes is enough.

I can go ATG, but I only do so on special occasions.

 

[ErkRusselReserve]

Another vote for learning of ATG in the 80s from my dad.

 

[Ckmaui]

We should start a new how it happened and might as well make it some kinda fun rumor

imagining barbers from the early days in the 1800s using straights asking who was doing that new trend of ATG

 

[VerbaVolant]

...I'm not sure what "better" means in this context: better blade longevity? More comfortable shave?
...Of course, at the end of the day, we learn what works for our face ;-)

... Thom

Better means a more comfortable shave, as this is my primary goal.
Simply put, considering just this aspect, cutting hair at an angle translates into more or less tugging, depending on the angle. Human hair has the outer layer three times harder than the middle core. If you consider human hair as cylindrical (which is not but let's say it is for ease of explanation) cutting it at 60° doubles its surface thus exposing the blade to much more hard cuticle. Just watch the video made by the author using an electron microscope and see where the chips form.
As mentioned in the study, another aspect is that the hair can be represented as a flexible cantilever, fixed at the end toward the skin and completely free at the other. This is why a shorter hair will bend less than longer hair, thus exposing less material to cut. Also, for the same reason cutting hair longer than the blade gap is difficult (nearly impossible) to cut WTG when using a razor with a neutral or negative blade exposure.

Interesting technology used to form the edge of the blade (again, watch the video where extreme pressure is explained) and I expect to see new blades coming into market. Just hope they will use that technology to make DE blades, not just cartridges.

ATG, I am a believer. Shaving every day, in total comfort.

I agree, at the end of the day, we learn what works for our face.

 

[VerbaVolant]

...Are you referring to figure 4, about halfway down the study which shows the more orthogonal the blade's angle is to the hair, the lower the failure probability?...

Also referring to figure 1B and the following:
Excerpt from the posted study
"Even then, we did not observe blade deformation or chipping for straight orthogonal cuts, in which there is no out-of-plane force component. By contrast, creating a more realistic condition by tilting the blade 21° to the cutting direction (Fig. 2B) led to an out-of-plane force component and, in turn, to plastic deformation and chipping in several cases..."

 

[Jaybyrd]

For many years my standard shaving routine was a single pass north-south. This meant that I was effectively shaving against the grain on the lower part of my neck. Even though I always got pretty good results, there were days when it just didn't feel comfortable.

Today I decided to stop this practice. From now on I will shave the lower part of my neck with the grain, so in an upward/north direction. Since I shave daily, I no longer see the benefit of shaving against the grain. Stubble will return and no one will be inspecting my face in my day to day life.

I guess there's some truth in the old adage to never shave against the grain. YMMV.

I did the same thing 2 days ago and had zero irritation, no redness, alum sting, and it was an enjoyable DFS. Not as close as I would typically get doing a 3 pass but it does allow for daily shaving and a pleasant experience. I did a 3 pass shave tonight and it was good but I am going to trial the idea of a 1 pass shave every day rather than a 3 pass shave every other day…if I can make the timing work out. Let us know how your journey goes!

 

[blade08]

I did the same thing 2 days ago and had zero irritation, no redness, alum sting, and it was an enjoyable DFS. Not as close as I would typically get doing a 3 pass but it does allow for daily shaving and a pleasant experience. I did a 3 pass shave tonight and it was good but I am going to trial the idea of a 1 pass shave every day rather than a 3 pass shave every other day…if I can make the timing work out. Let us know how your journey goes!

WTG in combination with bullfrogging gives me exceptionally smooth shaves.

 

[Ankerwycke]

My dad taught me to do a one pass ATG shave in the 1960s and I shaved that way for the next 50 years. The development of a turkey neck and having nothing better to do led me to a two pass ATG shave.
ATG is definitely pre internet.

 

[Jaybyrd]

WTG in combination with bullfrogging gives me exceptionally smooth shaves.

I have found that making my neck fatter (bullfrogging) helps too! When my neck is taunt I seem to get more irritation. I haven't tried a 2 pass WTG, not sure if that will do any good? I assume it will not cut any closer but haven't tried.

 

[Brutus]

I go out on a limb here, when I say that most cartridge shavers probably shave with a single WTG (with the grain) pass, maybe some buffing, because this is the most comfortable and quickest way to shave.
That also explains their mediocre results, or on a more positive note, the surprisingly good (or at least better than expected) results that one can get when one applies a 3 or 2½ pass shave and solid pre-shave routine to a shave with a cartridge razor like the Gillette Trac II/G II, Gillette Atra/Contour, Sensor, or similar razors.

If one spends some time thinking about the shave or has shaved for a while, one may discover sooner or later the ATG (against the grain) shave, because it mows more stubble than any other pass.

I dare to say that for neither of above shave methods does one need the internet.


By comparison, the three or two and a half pass shave (WTG, XTG, and ATG) is something that is not quite as intuitive and may have gained most of its popularity through the internet and forums like this one.

In my (71-year-old) case at least, there was little to learn from my dad, because, like many men in the 1960s, he had abandoned wet shaves for electric shaves that were all the craze then.
So most of what I learned about wet shaving in the beginning, I learned by trial and error and the internet came into play only much later.



B.

 

[SydneyShaver]

I've been skipping ATG (mostly) for a while. Pretty much just the goatee area, everywhere else is just WTG. Don't even do a XTG pass anymore. I've been using more efficient razors for the last couple months and am liking it so far. Will probably return to WTG and XTG in a few more. ATG everyday is not needed for me. Its only a tactile difference and only worth it on special occasions.

 

[blade08]

I have found that making my neck fatter (bullfrogging) helps too! When my neck is taunt I seem to get more irritation. I haven't tried a 2 pass WTG, not sure if that will do any good? I assume it will not cut any closer but haven't tried.

Bullfrogging must be an old technique. I remember my grandfather doing it whilst shaving with his electric razor. That was eighties to very early nineties, no later. He passed in 1995.

 

[LexLexington]

I do one pass WTG and I'm very happy with the shave. If I shave my neck ATG the skin gets bumpy and red, which looks far worse than the few microns of whisker that get left behind because I forego a second pass. For me, the difference between one pass and multiple passes is almost nothing and I spare my face a lot.

 

[Alex Jr]

For me, the difference between one pass and multiple passes is almost nothing and I spare my face a lot.

There is some truth to that, at least for me. Of course we are always going to feel the difference.

My wife commented more than one time that she can not tell how many passes I did just by looking at it.

I always have a shadow, even with 10 passes, so skipping my ATG changes nothing in the visual aspect.

 

[blade08]

I always have a shadow, even with 10 passes,

Same here.

 

[ivan_101]

Certainly against the grain is not an Internet thing. My father started shaving in the 60s and went ATG even then. That is how I started too - WTG and then ATG.

In the last 15 years I need to do 3 passes with my black whiskers. If I do only 2 in the morning, around 2 o'clock things are not looking good. If I were to go only one pass WTG, then I should leave razor shaving and just use a trimmer on my face. It will be the same result - I will look like I shaved yesterday.

 

[catchacoolbreeze]

That may be a factor. It is more likely just the difference in edges between DEs and straights; the latter feel much, much softer on the face.

What edges allow you to now do this?