My Park Aves. Defective? Or did I mistreat them?

[Matt S]

I sat down at my desk the other day and crossed my leg over my other knee and noticed from the side profile of my shoe that the front sole was coming apart. It is doing the same on the other foot, but not nearly as far along.

Some history, I've had these Park Aves for probably 2 years now, but only started really wearing them last April. Since I had to switch to a "suit" wardrobe and don't have many suits or thousands of dollars to immediately give myself a proper closet full of gear, I have committed a foul by wearing the Park Aves everyday. 95% of the time they come off when I get home and get shoe trees put in them. They have not been exposed to much weather. Maybe only a handful of wet days in the past 7 months. I'm usually inside with the exception of my walk to my car, so my feet aren't sopping with sweat throughout the day or anything.

So here is the picture. Everything else looks fine on them. Heck, the heel isn't even very worn yet. Yes, it is due for a clean up and some polish.

Problem spot.


Bottom view. Nothing seems out of place.


Any thoughts? Would you be banging down the door at AE? Or is this "normal"? I've never owned a pair of leather soled shoes before.

 

[Sluggo]

Call AE customer service, that isn't normal and they should make it right.

 

[Doc4]

I would expect AE to fix that for you.

Once they do, you may want to have a local cobbler put a Vibram half-sole on them for you.

 

[mretzloff]

According to the Allen Edmonds customer service representative whom I spoke with, that is normal. I had the same problem with my heels after wearing my Park Avenues for two years. They are being recrafted as I type this.

 

[BillyBee]

When you have a leather sole shoe or boot it is imperative to put the vibram 1/2 soles on them or you will definitely break the threads with use, some sooner, some later but they will break. From your picture it looks like you favour the inside of you soles.The treads are all broken on that side and the other side doesn't look as bad. MHOO.....

 

[Nick Danger]

Once they do, you may want to have a local cobbler put a Vibram half-sole on them for you.

Have you ever had your Allen Edmonds recrafted after putting on the half-sole? The AE shop in downtown Chicago told me that the factory may refuse to recraft them if I've had a local cobbler do any work on them. I did have the half-soles put on my first two pairs, which are only a month or so old now. We'll see if I have any trouble when it comes time to have them recrafted.

Nick

 

[Doc4]

Have you ever had your Allen Edmonds recrafted after putting on the half-sole? The AE shop in downtown Chicago told me that the factory may refuse to recraft them if I've had a local cobbler do any work on them. I did have the half-soles put on my first two pairs, which are only a month or so old now. We'll see if I have any trouble when it comes time to have them recrafted.

Nick

The only pair of AEs I own came with rubber soles.

 

[BillyBee]

Yep I have had them recrafted after a local cobbler put the 1/2 sole on. Typical for the store to say that. Notice how "the factory may refuse to recraft".

I'll say it again, if you want your AE or any leather soled shoe to last you must put on the 1/2 sole.

 

[Doc4]

I think a good recrafting from a reputable cobbler like B Nelson is going to be at least as good as whatever AE can do, without all the nonsense of wimping out if a cobbler has glued half-soles on at some point.

 

[jkingrph]

When you have a leather sole shoe or boot it is imperative to put the vibram 1/2 soles on them or you will definitely break the threads with use, some sooner, some later but they will break. From your picture it looks like you favour the inside of you soles.The treads are all broken on that side and the other side doesn't look as bad. MHOO.....

At 68 years old, Ihave never hav vibran 1/2 soles, and have never experienced that problem. I have worn holes through the outer soles. For some of us who live and work on carpeted floors vibram soles are not all that good, they can catch and trip you up where a leather sole will slide a bit. I also prefer a leather sole when I hit a wet vinyl type floor, it grips better there and does not tend to slip like a rubber sole.

 

[mretzloff]

Sorry, but what is the point of a halfsole? Why get leather soles when you are just going to put rubber over them?

 

[Nick Danger]

Sorry, but what is the point of a halfsole? Why get leather soles when you are just going to put rubber over them?

The B&B member who suggested them to me (and whose opinion I respect about most everything) said the idea was that it would prevent the need to replace the whole sole as often. I could just replace the rubber when it started to wear out. For me, it's about a third the price to add a rubber half sole and an extra thin layer of rubber on the heel than to send the shoes back to AE for a re-crafting.

However, on the two pairs I have on order right now, I've added the V-tread Tap Sole. We'll see how long those last for me. It does look more sturdy than the very thin rubber half sole I had the neighborhood cobbler put on my Delrays and Fifth Avenues.

Nick

 

[avsmusic1]

I can see no reason why you're having that problem. Even if you've been wearing them every workday since April, that should not happen in 7-8 months. Similar to jkingrph, I have worn holes through the leather outsole of my shoes a few times but I have never encountered the problem. I purchased a pair of black Bostonians in 2007 for $125 that stood up to being worn 4-5 days a week for ~2 years before I started seeing sock. I would hope that a $300 pair from AE would hold up at least as well.

Candidly, if I were if your spot, I would raise holy hell at AE and if they didn't mae it right I would never buy from them again.

 

[NRK]

It's not abuse, and it's not unusual. With this type of construction the leather or (or dainite) sole is stitched directly on to the welt. This stitching normally runs through a channel in the sole. None of the Allen Edmonds that I've owned have a particularly deep channel. To make matters worse I've had AE's where the stitching misses the channel. The flat, almost concave profile of the sole results in very quick wear to the stitching along the sides of them. This would be accelerated in any wet or even moist weather. The leather sole will will wear down extremely quickly when wet, or moist from being worn too much.

 

[avsmusic1]

NRK - what you're saying seems logical to me, and it would not suprise me if the events you've outlined are responsible for this issue. However, it still seems unusual that it happened as quickly as it has- at least to me.

I'm certainly not an expert. I just find it challenging to believe that 7months of wear, albeit heavy, would result in such destruction... unless the OP is moonwalking everywhere he goes.

I'm wearing a pair of AE Strands as I type this. I purchased them used off of Ebay a little over a year ago. They are my go to pair and I have worn them 3-4 times a week through all sorts of NE weather. The sole still has life left. I don't appear to have broken a single stitch to date and I haven't been kind to them.

I get that YMMV but this seems extreme which leads me to believe the must have been some defect present. Perhaps you are correct and the stitches were not properly placed in the channel. Wouldn't that be a defect though? I would certainly expect AE to make it right.

 

[strop]

While it seems logical that the stitching would wear out, I have never experienced this with any leather soled shoe. The sole gets thin in the middle long before there is any hint of separation.

 

[NRK]

I agree that it's odd, but I've had similar experiences with the AE shoes that I've owned. I haven't had the same issue with any of the british made shoes that I own though. It has a lot to do with the profile of the sole, and whether or not the shoe ever gets worn wet.

There are a few factors that are still unspecified. How much wear did the shoes get before they went into regular rotation? How heavy is the OP? What kind of ground is the OP walking on? How fast is the OP walking? Is the OP running to and from his car? There's a lot of wear to the sole at the toe, but relatively little at the heel. This is typical for runners who don't heel strike.

There are only a couple of pictures, but to me it looks like the leather sole is just plain worn out. If that's the case it's not a defect, or necessarily abuse. Just accelerated wear over a seven month period. The pictures make it look like there's relatively little wear to the heel, which leads me to suspect that the shoes were worn in wet weather, or that the OP is a bigger guy who possibly has an unusual gait.

To the OP, I'd have the shoes resoled with a Dainite-style rubber sole. It's more suitable for shoes that may be worn in rainy or wet conditions. I believe that Vibram makes a similar sole called the Eton, so you should be able to find something locally. The Allen Edmonds redrafting service is top notch, but unnecessarily expensive. Find someone good locally to do the work and you'll save a fair margin.

 

[mretzloff]

The B&B member who suggested them to me (and whose opinion I respect about most everything) said the idea was that it would prevent the need to replace the whole sole as often. I could just replace the rubber when it started to wear out. For me, it's about a third the price to add a rubber half sole and an extra thin layer of rubber on the heel than to send the shoes back to AE for a re-crafting.

However, on the two pairs I have on order right now, I've added the V-tread Tap Sole. We'll see how long those last for me. It does look more sturdy than the very thin rubber half sole I had the neighborhood cobbler put on my Delrays and Fifth Avenues.

Nick

Thank you!

 

[NRK]

While it seems logical that the stitching would wear out, I have never experienced this with any leather soled shoe. The sole gets thin in the middle long before there is any hint of separation.

This has everything to do with the profile of the sole. The british made shoes that I own all have a convex shape. The sole gently extends down from the welt so that if you sit them on a table, the middle of the sole touches the table, but not the welt. The AE's that I own are all ruler flat, maybe convex. The welt (or the part of the sole that's stitched to the welt) touches the table, and as a result will wear more quickly.

 

[StillShaving]

Sorry, but what is the point of a halfsole? Why get leather soles when you are just going to put rubber over them?

I understand where you are coming from. I don't own any shoes like these, but I feel the main reason for using this hybrid style sole rather than a leather sole or rubber sole is to get much of the visual appearance leather sole, to help keep them more formal looking, while still protecting the outsole. And to get the feel of leather beneath the foot, in the way that they flex or otherwise offer support.

I am thinking of a shoe like these AE Cronmok Wingtip Boots: