My Correspondence With Trumper

[Craig_From_Cincy]

I emailed a complaint about the current state of Trumper's shave soaps to the company and received a reply from Trumper this morning.

As you've read in thread after thread, the current formulation of Trumper's soaps simply do not work, the soaps produce very little lather and what it does produce is thin and dissipates very quickly. And the soaps are not inexpensive either. This is not an issue about the removal of tallow from Trumper's soaps as their post-tallow shave soaps were initially excellent. The current reformulation that has produced wretched, unusable soaps seems to date from about 2011 onward (an excellent thread detailing issues with Trumper soaps can be found here ). Here's the reply I received this morning:

from: Rebecca Baron <[email protected]>
to: CXXXXX.com
date: Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 5:29 AM
subject: RE: Shave Soap Performance

Dear Mr Sir,

Thank you for your email and the contents therein.

There are no current plans to change the formulation of our shaving soaps.

We have not received any similar comments regarding the performance of the soaps, however, please be assured we take all customer feedback on board, and we thank you for taking the time to write to us.

Kind Regards,

Miss Rebecca Baron

Geo. F. Trumper (P&P) Ltd
166 Fairbridge Road
London N19 3HT
Telephone: +44 (0) 207 272 1765
Email: [email protected]
Website: www.trumpers.com

Ms Baron's response is completely disingenuous as I have read of many complaints being emailed to Trumper on this and other shave forums. Then there are the scores of threads with complaints about Trumpers soaps that have posted to those forums by their members. Trumper is either in a state of denial about any issues with their shave soap performance, or they are flat out lying about not receiving any complaints about their soaps.

Trumper needs to hear feedback from their customers en masse. If you are equally disappointed with the state of Trumpers soaps (and other products) as I am then I invite you to join me in letting Trumper know your concerns. Companies need feedback in order to respond to their customers wants and needs, so we will be doing Trumper a favor in the long run by letting them know that we, their customers, are not happy with the changes to their products and will no longer purchase them. If many of us speak up who knows, Trumper might respond by restoring their products to their former glory. You can email Trumper, or send send them messages via social media by posting on their Facebook page and/or sending them a short message via Twitter. Please be polite (I know that's not necessary to say here on B&B) and let them know your concerns about their products.

Trumper Contact info:

Twitter: http://twitter.com/GeoTrumper ( @GeoTrumper )
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GeoTrumper
Email: [email protected]
Snailmail:
Geo F Trumper
166 Fairbridge Road
London, UK N19 3HT

Cheers,

Craig

 

[Austin]

Nice attempt. Perhaps you will have more success. This has been done a few times in the past. Unfortunately, they were forced to reformulate to comply with EU standards. You never know though.

 

[twitch182]

Having never used Trumper's, I can't comment on the quality. However, I am much more a vote with my feet kind of guy. If a vendor makes a product I don't like, I simply won't buy it, and if asked my opinion I'll give it.

Just my thoughts.

-Twitch

 

[jwilock]

... or, if you don't like them you can simply not buy them. I suspect they would react more to loss of slaes than to mass mailing of complaints.

 

[volleymh9]

Unfortunately, they were forced to reformulate to comply with EU standards. You never know though.

if GFT is forced to, how does DR Harris avoid the need to comply? i say vote with your money, if you don't like the companies product, don't buy it, they will either change the product or be forced to sell the company to somebody who will fix the problem.

 

[TallyShave]

You seem awfully upset for someone who read a bunch of negative reviews about a product, decided to purchase it anyway and found it disappointing. You also curiously did not include your original message to them. Whole thing is strange...people are disappointed with products around here all the time, but few sign up for accounts just to bash them.

 

[Lando]

someone out there is buying this stuff, otherwise the vendors wouldn't stock it

 

[Craig_From_Cincy]

Nice attempt. Perhaps you will have more success. This has been done a few times in the past. Unfortunately, they were forced to reformulate to comply with EU standards. You never know though.

Hi Austin,

I know that others have complained to Trumper without success, but after buying their products for two decades I wanted to express my dissatisfaction to them personally. I know that the EU has strongly regulated the use of various ingredients such as oak moss, coumarin, etc but there is no regulation in place that's responsible for the dismal performance of Trumper's soaps from about 2011 onward. There are plenty of other firms making soaps and creams in the EU that perform splendidly, some of which even still use tallow in their formulations (DR Harris & Valobra for instance). The issue with Trumper lies elsewhere, perhaps it's cost cutting, or perhaps the issue lies with whichever firm Trumper is currently outsourcing production of it's soaps to. All I know is that I won't be buying any more of Trumper's soaps, there's just too many other good soaps out there. I just ordered some of Mike's soaps and I'm excited to try them.

 

[Craig_From_Cincy]

if GFT is forced to, how does DR Harris avoid the need to comply? i say vote with your money, if you don't like the companies product, don't buy it, they will either change the product or be forced to sell the company to somebody who will fix the problem.

Fair enough Tally, here's my original email to them:

from:		Craigxxxx@gmail.com>
to:		[email protected]
date:		Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 3:03 PM
subject:		Shave Soap Performance

Dear Sir or Madam,


I am a long time customer of Trumper shave goods, colognes, after shaves and grooming products. I recently purchased a Trumper Limes Shave Soap from Cambridge Chemists in New York City. The decline in the quality of your soap is shocking, it was nearly impossible to develop a decent, lasting lather with the soap no matter how hard I tried nor which brush I used. I am an experienced shaver who has been using traditional shave soaps and creams for two decades and I know how to build proper lather with a shave soap. There simply was no usable lather to be had from your soap. After trying this soap on and off for two weeks I gave up and threw it in the trash.


I have read complaints about your reformulated soaps for some time now, but this is the first instance of encountering your reformulated soap myself and I am sorely disappointed with the product. My stock of Trumper Rose and Sandalwood soaps are nearly depleted and I am highly hesitant to purchase any more Trumper soaps based on both what I have read from others, and have now experienced first hand. Can you please advise me as to there is any chance that Trumper will change your shave soap back to a usable formulation any time in the near future?


Regards,

 

[inspiringK]

Craig, have you found that the other English soaps in their current formulation are not as good as Trumpers soaps at their best? So, Harris from today compared to Trumpers when you first started using it?

 

[Craig_From_Cincy]

Craig, have you found that the other English soaps in their current formulation are not as good as Trumpers soaps at their best? So, Harris from today compared to Trumpers when you first started using it?

I think that the Dr Harris soaps are excellent, but are a bit more finicky than Trumper soaps were in their prime. The Harris soap need the right water ratio to really excel. I also think that Taylor's shave soaps are still very good, and good values to boot. Although not English, I've found the Valobra produced AOS soaps to be among the best performing shave soaps I've used. I don't care much for the scents, but the soaps themselves are top notch. I haven't tried any of the post tallow formulation AOS soaps, but I'm crossing my fingers that the soaps hold up. Mitchell's Wool Fat is an excellent shave soap that produces some of the best lather I've ever made, but the scent doesn't do much for me. Penhaligon's soaps seem to be making a comeback after an awful reformulation that rendered them latherless and unusable. I picked up a puck of Blenheim Bouquet last fall and it's a decent performer, but not top notch.

Cheers,

Craig

 

[njpaddy]

I often wonder if the bad pucks were limited to certain batches or a specific time period. Or if they were refill pucks vs wood bowl pucks. Before buying my Rose in wood bowl a year ago I asked the vendor if they had gotten complaints about the soap they had in stock and they stated that they had not. I ordered from them and my Rose is fine. That vendor is still carrying GFT so I have to assume that "bad" GFT pucks are somehow not the norm. I do agree that DR Harris soaps are better, however they don't make a Rose soap which leaves few options. For now I use my GFT Rose occasionally as a treat. I would probably use it more, and buy other scents, if I had more confidence I could replace it with a puck just as good. I just don't know.

 

[Phog Allen]

Gents, while Craig may be new around here he is far from a newb. He has been on other forums for long awhile now. He pretty well knows what's up with shave soaps. I think you can trust his take on the Trumper situation. It is a sad situation for me since as I have said before, GFT was always my benchmark for English toiletries. Sure, Penhaligon's and Taylor of Old Bond Street make great products. The same is true of D.R. Harris and Truefitt and Hill. Yet Trumper always took top spot with me because of the great variety and almost across the board quality of product. From scent, to performance, to packaging, to the image and heritage. The same could easily be said of a company like Harris but my first real 'attention getter' was Trumper. This shave soap situation is awful as far as I am concerned. Thanks Craig for taking time to initiate some communication with them. I have been there before and came up with similar results.

Cheers, Todd

 

[KodiakAttack]

... or, if you don't like them you can simply not buy them.

+1
There are plenty other fish in the sea, so to speak.

 

[john parker]

... I do agree that DR Harris soaps are better, however they don't make a Rose soap which leaves few options...

Klar Kabinett is a nice rose option!

And, Craig, thanks for pursuing this! I have an old tub of Trumper's rose, and it does lather well. Doubt, though, that I will be tempted to replace it. My Klar meets the need for my rose fix!

 

[Phog Allen]

Hey John, thanks for the reminder about Klar! It has been in my feeble back burner memory for awhile now and since my infatuation with the Tcheon Fung Sing soaps is over this may be a good one to try. I haven't used a rose scented lather in a LONG while and it is high time.

Cheers, Todd

 

[njpaddy]

Klar Kabinett is a nice rose option!

I keep thinking about trying that one, but it seems like soooo much soap. I first have to finish some of the 25 others I have now.

 

[Fortitudo Dei]

I have had similar experiences in an unrelated line of products (nothing to do with wet shaving at all). Making contact via a website can often have very limited results unless the company is a very small family-run affair where complaints and suggestions go right to the top (as there is virtually nothing below them). Anything larger and if junior staff are monitoring the inbox, they probably have a stock list of standard replies which they have been instructed to send out to response to enquiries and complaints.

If one (or "we" as a community) is serious about this, one needs to analyse the sort of company we are dealing with and work out who it is we should be talking to.

First up: their "official" address of 166 Fairbridge Road in Islington, London. Have a look at it on Google Streetview and you will see that it's a far cry from image the company promotes on its website and via its barber shops. It appears to be a very small distribution warehouse probably with small office facilities included. I doubt the descendents of George Trumper have had anything to do with the company for decades (a century?) and whatever is going on at 166 Fairbridge Road, they certainly aren't boiling up vats of palm oil (or tallow in the past) to make shaving soap. My bet is that they are using contract soap-makers (and perfumeries etc) to produce their products.

A quick search of the UK Companies register indicates there are four separate companies which make up the Geo F Trumper "family".

GEO. F. TRUMPER LIMITED
GEO F TRUMPER OF CURZON STREET LIMITED
GEO F TRUMPER OF JERMYN STREET LIMITED
GEO. F. TRUMPER (PERFUMER AND PRODUCTS) LIMITED

All are limited liability private companies and all have the same official address of 166 Fairbridge Road. Of the four, Geo F Trumper (Perfumer and Products) Ltd (Company #00187396, first incorporated 1923) would seem to be the obvious "branch" which is responsible for the "production" (but not necessarily the manufacture) of their shaving soap. Interestingly, until 1982 the company was known as Truefitt and Hill (Products) Ltd so there is a connection between the two firms (as far as their products go) that I was unaware of until now.

A quick Google search gives us this...
http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/geo-f-trumper-(perfumer-and-products)

And that in turn, gives us this...
http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/directors/geo-f-trumper-(perfumer-and-products)

It doesn't take much to work out that a certain distinctive family name is prominent in the list of directors and that it is highly likely that they are significant shareholders in Geo F Trumper (Perfumer and Products) Ltd. Residential addresses are included and it is a relatively easy process to work out quite a lot more about some of the individuals involved (including other business interests, email addresses etc) but I'll leave that to anyone who wishes to pursue the matter further.
The directors / shareholders may not be aware of the damage their company's reputation is taking however if the company is turning a profit, they may not be too bothered either.

Myself? I have two old Trumpers tallow pucks (which are fantastic) one post-tallow puck (which is hopeless) but have so many other soaps to get through (as well as kilos of my own D.I.Y shaving soap which I am forever tweaking) that I am happy to leave this noble battle to others.

N.B: Just to note that while all the information above is "public" information, I trust that we are all gentlemanly enough not to do anything stupid or unseeming with it. Cheers.

 

[Kevan]

Someone needs to make a youtube video and compare a Trumper puck that works vs. one that doesn't work. Show them that their current soaps suck. That's the only way.

Unless they have some massive stockpile of perfect-performing soaps at their establishments, there's no way that I can see that they've avoided the crappy performance of the new soaps. If they truly don't know, they're either lying to continue sales, or they don't use their hard soaps and most of them use creams.

 

[NewTyme]

I find it pretty inconceivable that they aren't aware their product is currently crap. Does Trumper still make all of their products in house and in the UK? If not, my feeling is they are probably stuck in a contract with a manufacturer, or had a huge amount produced before they realized what was going on (less likely). Either way, it is pure speculation on my part.

Why was this thread moved to the "Shopping and Deals" section? This is a relevant topic to the Soap Forum and there have been countless posts about the completely abysmal performance of the new Trumper formulation.

This is a premium (expensive) soap that literally doesn't work. It doesn't lather.