Nice work, Grant! (again . . .)
& lots of intelligent discussion/reaction . . .
Thanks, all.
& lots of intelligent discussion/reaction . . .
Thanks, all.
Modifying Safety Razor Aggressiveness & Efficiency with Blade, Shims, Reverse Shims, and Tape Strips
- Thread starter ShavingByTheNumbers
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #62
Nice write up!
Not sure if it was mentioned but there's the narrow reverse shim!
If you cut the shim narrow and place it between the cap and blade, it pushes the center of the blade away from the cap, which increases blade exposure on any razor design. It takes away curve at the center, ultimately making the blade wider.
Thanks, Anthony!
You're the first to bring up the "narrow reverse shim". Thanks. I intentionally left out the "narrow shim" that can decrease blade angle in some cases, but I guess that the narrow reverse shim should be added, too, now that this has gone in the wiki and can grow.- Thread starter
- #63
Thanks, Spike! Yeah, the discussion here has been really good. And I thought that I was "done" when I posted the OP.
- Thread starter
- #64
Can @Try em all or anyone else here verify whether TTOs can or cannot take the addition of shims and reverse shims? It's been brought to my attention that TTOs might be designed to only take one modern DE blade, no more, no less.
I did not have a ready shim, so I put another blade on top of the current one in my Feather Popular. On eyeballing it carefully, there is more than enough space to fit five more blades!
- Thread starter
- #66
Thanks for verifying that, @Try em all. What do the effects appear to be when you add shims? When you add reverse shims? Do you see any change in blade angle, for example?
Okay, so the Feather Popular can take shims and reverse shims. Can anyone else check with their TTOs that aren't Feather Populars whether they have room for shims and reverse shims? Also, what do the effects on blade angle, etc., appear to be when shims are added? When reverse shims are added? What is the effect on blade curvature?
Unfortunately I don't have a ready shim & I'm travelling tomorrow & will not be carrying on a DE, just a fresh Gillette Guard & a multiblade for touchup. Could try shimming it when I get back on Wednesday, but I'm sure someone would have beaten me to it by then
- Thread starter
- #68
Ron R
I survived a lathey foreman
I thought I would add to the conversation that my Gillette Slim (TTO) will take two shims on top of cap and also will close with no problem, also will take two shims on bottom of blade and close with no problem. The Gillette slim was designed with a spring for final clamping of blade by a 1/4 turn for final clamping sequence. I started shimming the slim with a shim under under the blade in my last shave to improve rigidity and it stiffens the blade because of its bottom overhang IMO. I did a sharp object push test in middle of blade before and after adding the shim to the bottom of blade and had good results, being adjustable you can compensate for the shim by going a notch or two lower but you increase the blade rigidity with reasonable positive results if rigidity is the quest of the person shaving!
- Thread starter
- #70
I thought I would add to the conversation that my Gillette Slim (TTO) will take two shims on top of cap and also will close with no problem, also will take two shims on bottom of blade and close with no problem. The Gillette slim was designed with a spring for final clamping of blade by a 1/4 turn for final clamping sequence. I started shimming the slim with a shim under under the blade in my last shave to improve rigidity and it stiffens the blade because of its bottom overhang IMO. I did a sharp object push test in middle of blade before and after adding the shim to the bottom of blade and had good results, being adjustable you can compensate for the shim by going a notch or two lower but you increase the blade rigidity with reasonable positive results if rigidity is the quest of the person shaving!
Thanks, Ron. Do the reverse shims lower the blade without changing the blade curvature? Do the shims add rigidity without changing the blade curvature, without moving the blade?
Ron R
I survived a lathey foreman
Hello Grant?, I was not interested in the top of blade shimming because its a adjustable, but in theory it would have no or little effect to curving of blade within the TTO doors of my Gillette slim. One more thing that might be of interest to your study of shimming as more are added you can actually decrease rigidity because of imperfections in the shims. My back ground as a Machinist & Millwright training was when shimming rotating equipment that less shims were always better.(example if you had 3 of .020 thousand of a inch thick shims you would replace it with a .060 thousand of a inch thick shim reducing error and being more solid for clamping-avoiding accordion effect.)Shims are used in a lot of applications other than Razors, so for me shimming is no big deal but to others it would bother them no doubt.
Grant That was a brilliant article you have brought to our hobby of shaving.
I agree that one 0.3 mm DE blade would certainly be stiffer & more rigid than one 0.1mm DE blade shimmed with two 0.1mm shims.Hello Grant?, I was not interested in the top of blade shimming because its a adjustable, but in theory it would have no or little effect to curving of blade within the TTO doors of my Gillette slim. One more thing that might be of interest to your study of shimming as more are added you can actually decrease rigidity because of imperfections in the shims. My back ground as a Machinist & Millwright training was when shimming rotating equipment that less shims were always better.(example if you had 3 of .020 thousand of a inch thick shims you would replace it with a .060 thousand of a inch thick shim reducing error and being more solid for clamping-avoiding accordion effect.)Shims are used in a lot of applications other than Razors, so for me shimming is no big deal but to others it would bother them no doubt.
Grant That was a brilliant article you have brought to our hobby of shaving.
Unfortunately, as these triple thickness blades are not available, we must make do with what is.
And it is undoubtedly also true that a 0.1mm DE blade shimmed with two 0.1mm shims is stiffer than the DE blade without the shims.
- Thread starter
- #73
That was a brilliant article you have brought to our hobby of shaving.
Thanks, Ron! With help from you guys, this guide will grow to something even better.
I didn't know that the razor you were talking about was an adjustable. I agree with you about how reverse shims wouldn't really change the blade shape. The same is true for shims, I think. Shimming adds rigidity, but reverse shims would also add rigidity, too, right (even if not as much as shims)? Have you tried "sandwiching" the blade between shims and reverse shims?
Good point! Thanks. I plan on adding something about how to make shims. The edges need to be cut cleanly without burrs or whatever you'd call them. You want the shims to be flat so that they stack nicely with clean contact. A bad burr could throw off the rigidity and the blade exposure, etc. DE blade thicknesses only vary between about 0.09 mm and 0.1 mm, so there's not much choice in the matter. However, 0.1 mm thick shims would add more rigidity than 0.09 mm thick shims.
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- Thread starter
- #74
I have some questions for anyone who is experienced with TTOs (adjustable or non-adjustable):
1. From what I have found and have been told, it sounds like adding shims (underneath blade) or reverse shims (on top of blade) to TTOs is possible in some cases, that there is sometimes room for them, but that there are other TTOs that will not close properly or may get damaged with shims or reverse shims added. Is this correct?
2. If there is room for shims, does adding them simply add blade rigidity without changing the blade geometry/curvature or any of the razor geometry?
3. If there is room for reverse shims, does adding them shift the blade down, away from the doors, without changing the blade geometry/curvature or the geometry of the cap and baseplate? (I'd expect an increase in blade rigidity, but probably not as much as with shims.)
4. Do your answers to the previous questions apply similarly for non-adjustable and adjustable TTOs?
If anyone can help me out here, either by answering my questions or leading me to someone who is around and can answer them, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.
1. From what I have found and have been told, it sounds like adding shims (underneath blade) or reverse shims (on top of blade) to TTOs is possible in some cases, that there is sometimes room for them, but that there are other TTOs that will not close properly or may get damaged with shims or reverse shims added. Is this correct?
2. If there is room for shims, does adding them simply add blade rigidity without changing the blade geometry/curvature or any of the razor geometry?
3. If there is room for reverse shims, does adding them shift the blade down, away from the doors, without changing the blade geometry/curvature or the geometry of the cap and baseplate? (I'd expect an increase in blade rigidity, but probably not as much as with shims.)
4. Do your answers to the previous questions apply similarly for non-adjustable and adjustable TTOs?
If anyone can help me out here, either by answering my questions or leading me to someone who is around and can answer them, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.
Holy Hannah! I would be terrified to apply such a razor to my face! (But then, I'm pretty much terrified of using a straight, so, maybe it's just me . . .).
All I meant is that it looked to me that I could drop another 5 blades in when the razor was in the open position.
I did not actually load 7 blades.
I did, however load two & checked the razor would close.
Cool. I understand. I just meant that if there was room for 5 more in the closed razor, it didn't sound like the blade already in there was being held very tightly! And I really like my blades stiff & locked down . . .
It tightens when one closes the doors. Quite tightly, too.
Ron R
I survived a lathey foreman
You know another thing I did to my shims other than trimming the cutting edges off is also trimming a little off the ends to get them apart from primary blade.( i used a spent blade on first one and they were stuck quite well, with trimmed ends, just bend a little to get them apart with ease- make sure you hone the shim to remove imperfections from cutting.)
I was thinking about the practicality of taping razors that clamp down on a blade very close to the edges. In pondering the possibilities, this is what I came up with for my NEW SC.
.
That's 2 layers of Frogtape at the center of the baseplate and 2 at the edges of the topcap. I plan to try it out tomorrow with a fresh Feather New Hi-Stainless.
That vintage Silver Star is destined to become a shim. It's stainless steel and much thicker and stiffer than modern blades. (I did shave with that Silver Star twice, and that was quite enough for me
)
.
That's 2 layers of Frogtape at the center of the baseplate and 2 at the edges of the topcap. I plan to try it out tomorrow with a fresh Feather New Hi-Stainless.
That vintage Silver Star is destined to become a shim. It's stainless steel and much thicker and stiffer than modern blades. (I did shave with that Silver Star twice, and that was quite enough for me
)
