Learning edge maintenance on a coticule

[JHP]

I'm using a GD to learn honing on my coticule. I bought the GD with a shave ready edge that gave me 12 good shaves but then became pretty tuggy. The edge was still easily able to shave arm hair at skin level, and cut some hair at tree tops, so I figured the bevel should be ok. Tuesday I followed the directions for edge maintenance on coticule.be which basically says to do 30-60 x-strokes on water and then strop. Here's the link -

[url]http://www.coticule.be/edge-maintenance.html[/URL]

Being my first honing experience, I wasn't expecting much, but Wednesday's shave was NOTICEABLY improved. Actually, very good on the cheeks but a little bit tuggy on my chin. Good enough that I was able to finish the shave.

I did the maintenance routine again Wednesday, partly to practice my x-strokes. Thursday's shave was actually quite good for 90% of the shave. Chin and soul patch where still a little too tuggy, so I did the maintenance routine again today.

Questions:

1. When I look at the edge at 60x, the center of the blade looks pretty good, but there are a few micro notches near the heel and toe. They're pretty small. Most are probably 1/32nd to 1/16th of the total bevel height but there is one rather large one that may be exceeding 1/16th of the bevel in height. Will I need to reset the bevel to get rid of those? Unicot? Ellipticot?

2. Undercutting on water. During x-strokes I can see the bevel go from shiny white to black from water wetting the bevel, but I'm not getting a puddle on the hallow of the blade on every stroke. Would that be considered undercutting?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Brooksie967]

Not sure if those 'notches' are chips (highly doubtful unless you've banged the razor on something) or if they are a result of poor stropping technique (everyone sucks at first so don't feel bad if that's the case).

If you strop the razor aggressively on linen and do so properly, it can fix 'rolled bevel' issues.
If you don't have linen, everyone says that linen is the key to coticule edges and I would tend to agree. Just leather improves the coticule edge but once you strop like a mad man on linen first then leather, magic can happen (i've only had it once so far from a coticule but it was quite impressive).

 

[Lomez]

Brooksie,
Do you mean added pressure or extra laps?

JHP,
Thanks for posting the link.

 

[Brooksie967]

Brooksie,
Do you mean added pressure or extra laps?

JHP,
Thanks for posting the link.

On linen, i use a little extra pressure yes.

With jnats I don't use linen, just leather.

With coticules I use 40 to 60 linen and then 60ish leather.

 

[JHP]

Not sure if those 'notches' are chips (highly doubtful unless you've banged the razor on something) or if they are a result of poor stropping technique (everyone sucks at first so don't feel bad if that's the case).

I haven't banged it on the faucet yet. I've been searching B&B for a picture of a similar "notch" as an example. There isn't a "bur" that I can see. It just looks like steal is missing, not bent. In the recent thread on Coticule edges under microscope post #7 by Rich in his second picture, about 2/3rd of the way across the edge working left-to-right you can see a little notch. You can get the idea of what I am seeing. Rich says of the edge that he has shaved on it for a week.

. . . or if they are a result of poor stropping technique (everyone sucks at first so don't feel bad if that's the case).

At this point, it wouldn't surprise me in the least. But would these notches be caused by stropping or from impacting hair follicles while shaving?

If you strop the razor aggressively on linen and do so properly, it can fix 'rolled bevel' issues.
If you don't have linen, everyone says that linen is the key to coticule edges and I would tend to agree. Just leather improves the coticule edge but once you strop like a mad man on linen first then leather, magic can happen (i've only had it once so far from a coticule but it was quite impressive).

I have linen and I've used it for 60+ laps after each time on the coticule. Didn't remove my little notches.

Thanks Brooksie.

 

[gary haywood]

I've heard the gd can be a bugger at the heal, as due to the way they are..firsly pop some black marker along he bevel...Do 30 x strokes and see if the marker is removed from the bevel? if so your making good contact.. sounds to me that you may need more than a touch up with water .. coticules are slow with water .. it won't hurt to make a misty watery slurry.. perform circles from heal to toe up and down your hone until you see the slurry go slight of white .... keeping slurry from going dry...then rinse and do 50 laps or more on water , strop as usual and just repeat as nesacerry....check your bevel and i'm sure the cutting edge with look much cleaner at cutting edge , sometimes with 60x you see some things that don't mater...chips are quite ovious little bright spots at cutting edge could be nothing... test shave will be the best way for you

 

[AjaxLepinski]

Chips aren't always caused by banging or dropping your razor. Tiny rust spots soften the edge and break away while shaving.
Tiny chips will cause tugging and need to be removed. Depending on how deep they go into the blade, you can sometimes remove them on a 4K stone - deeper chips can be quickly removed on a 1K stone.
You'd be surprised at how quickly your edge will rust. It's important to put a thin coat of oil on your razor after each shave.
A lot of people like storing their razors in special socks that are impregnated with a rust inhibitor - either way you can't leave unprotected razors lying around if you want to keep them rust and chip free.
I hope this helps!!!

 

[Krodor]

It's *very* possible that they just weren't honed-out in the original hone-job. It's easy to get an edge shave ready but still have little micro-chipping at the edge like that. Often times folks will use a DMT to get through the first bevel set (esp on a GD), then gone from there. The scratches left behind might not have been fully eliminated, and when scratches intersect at a bevel, it looks like a chip. Did you inspect the edge before now so that you can verify these are new, or could it be that they've always been there?

 

[blackhhawk]

As far as the bevel looking like that, it may have been little chips from when the bevel was set and it didn't get honed out after bevel set. Are the chips right on the cutting edge or are they up higher? On some of my edges I have deeper scratches up higher from the 1k stone, but they don't effect anything. You may want to just build a thick slurry and bring it back down to water again, essentially do a dilucot and redo the edge a bit, that might get the chips out. When the slurry is thick just use a little pressure and do half strokes or circles for a while, then lighten up on the pressure and do a bit more, then dilute it down. see if that makes the edge look smoother.

I find that when running touch ups on the coti with just water the undercut i had when honing has gone away a little bit. takes a little to bring it back but its not that big of a deal at this point. Ill run the slurry back and forth once or twice so theres just a tiny tiny bit of slurry in there and do some half strokes, maybe 50-60 and then some x strokes, maybe 50. then rinse the stone and do 50+ more, however many you need, with no pressure at all. if this didn't bring the edge back just repeat. the edge maintenance article on coticule.be is good but i found that the amount of laps it suggests isn't enough so I usually do more than that, but your stone/blade are different so of course, YMMV

EDIT: I didn't see the post above^^, he pretty much said what I'm saying about the chips

 

[JHP]

I've heard the gd can be a bugger at the heal, as due to the way they are..

. . . Tiny rust spots soften the edge and break away while shaving. . . A lot of people like storing their razors in special socks that are impregnated with a rust inhibitor

It's *very* possible that they just weren't honed-out in the original hone-job. It's easy to get an edge shave ready but still have little micro-chipping at the edge like that. . . . Did you inspect the edge before now so that you can verify these are new, or could it be that they've always been there?

I did not have the 60x microscope when I started shaving with this GD, so they may very well have been left in the original bevel, but it shaved well. It could also have been the tiny rusting that Ajax described because I didn't have my razor socks for the first few weeks.

I'm going to try Gary's suggestion with the light slurry and see how that goes.

I find that when running touch ups on the coti with just water the undercut i had when honing has gone away a little bit.

Is this common for others too? Any other thoughts from my OP about undercut on water?

2. Undercutting on water. During x-strokes I can see the bevel go from shiny white to black from water wetting the bevel, but I'm not getting a puddle on the hallow of the blade on every stroke. Would that be considered undercutting?

Thanks to everyone for your help.

 

[blackhhawk]

I don't think losing the undercut is anything to worry about, after shaving and stropping a bunch of times its going to go away. With a little pressure on the light misty slurry I think you can get it back but be sure to then finish up with no pressure strokes.

^^Someone correct me if I'm wrong please

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Looks like micro chipping on the edge in the photo, what areyou bevel setting on?

If your edge looks like the photo, then you need to re-set the bevel or perhaps the bevel was never completely set.

As suggested, first take a Sharpie and with the edge straight up lightly run the sharpie on the edge of the bevel. This will mark both sides of the edge at the same time and only mark the edge of the bevel.Then with your Coticule do one lap and look to see if all the ink is removed all the way to the edge. Make sure you are honing all the way to the edge, GD heels can be problematic.

Now look down at the edge with magnification, looking for shiny spots or ink, either indicate a bevel that is not set and you have to figure out why.
To remove 1/16 in chips, either lightly bread knife to clear steel or hone on your bevel setter until you get to clear, good steel, halflaps or circles followed by full strokes to blend and straighten the edge and bevel.

If you are using your Coticule to bevel set, you still haveto ensure that the bevel is actually set, (the Bevels are meeting and is/are chip free) before you proceed to polishing. Lap quantity numbers are merely suggestion or approximations, you have to do as many laps as it takes to getthe results. If you are doing excessive laps without results, then you need tore-evaluate your technique or choice of stone grits.

You cannot polish an edge that does not exist.

 

[JHP]

what are you bevel setting on?

I didn't set the bevel. Not being much of a metal worker, I bought it with the shoulders removed and it was also shave ready. Crawl, walk, run. Still crawling.

Just did the marker test and the ink came off on both sides on the entire blade, except the last 1/2 inch at the heel. That tells me there is a slight smile, right? I'll bet those micro chips weren't removed on the original bevel. If I apply VERY LIGHT pressure with my finger to the spine near the heel, it does remove the ink, but that's probably not the best technique, right? I'm going to make the smile greater. Should I be doing a rolling stroke at the heel?

Josh

 

[ACorazza]

I would try rolling the stroke. Use the marker test again and try to see how much you need to roll it, some need only a little roll while others need more. Considering you didn't really notice the smile until now it will probably only need a slight roll.

 

[gary haywood]

common thing with most razor s . the heal doesn't quite make full contact. so as above says you need to do rolling x stroke heal down first .. do what I recommended circles heal down first work in sections heal middle toe, repeat both sides .. work up the hone on heal down the hone heal then middle then toe..reaply marker check to see if you are working the whole bevel..., you can even finish with circles on water or do slight rolling x stroke with water . me my self just do whole process with circles which for me gives smoother shave ...

 

[JHP]

common thing with most razor s . the heal doesn't quite make full contact. so as above says you need to do rolling x stroke heal down first .. do what I recommended circles heal down first work in sections heal middle toe, repeat both sides .. work up the hone on heal down the hone heal then middle then toe..reaply marker check to see if you are working the whole bevel..., you can even finish with circles on water or do slight rolling x stroke with water . me my self just do whole process with circles which for me gives smoother shave ...

Ack! I killed it.

Maybe my slurry was too heavy. I tried to get "misty watery slurry". Don't know. I did circles in Emmanuel Ellipticot fashion - heel, middle, toe, heel, middle, toe, etc - with misty slurry. definitely didn't dry out. Rinsed and dried razor and stone, then 50ish x-strokes on water. Haven't shaved with it since this exercise, but I was getting HHT4 before, now I'm HHT nothin'!

Gary, you and Emmanuel both have videos on Coticule.be. In the videos you are doing half strokes and in his video, Emmanuel is doing circles. Have you switched over to doing circles since those videos were made?

Josh

 

[gary haywood]

I have switched to doing circles. I find circles less aggressive better controlled and the shave is slight smoother . having shaved with emanuels edge from circles there was no dout there wasn't a mssive difference but a very slight improvement in smoothness..Emanuel doesn't post on here but he does offer free honing, I tried his honing and was very happy .. I soon pesterd him him about his method... he released his video soon after I asked him to.. both methods work well but its what ever you feel comfy with.. don't worry to much.. just repeat the method and strop..just keep honing stropping checking hht ... this is how you will learn. no harm can be done .. You can even have a blast at unicot method .. By getting stuck in with use of slurry etc is how you will learn...

gary

 

[JHP]

I have switched to doing circles. I find circles less aggressive better controlled and the shave is slight smoother . having shaved with emanuels edge from circles there was no dout there wasn't a mssive difference but a very slight improvement in smoothness..Emanuel doesn't post on here but he does offer free honing, I tried his honing and was very happy .. I soon pesterd him him about his method... he released his video soon after I asked him to.. both methods work well but its what ever you feel comfy with.. don't worry to much.. just repeat the method and strop..just keep honing stropping checking hht ... this is how you will learn. no harm can be done .. You can even have a blast at unicot method .. By getting stuck in with use of slurry etc is how you will learn...

gary

All right then. Circles it is. I have to start somewhere. I've read about halfway through the "My Method" thread over on artisanshaving.org in which everyone discussed Emmanuel's technique. I read there that you had good results with circles, but I'm glad to know you've switched.

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm enjoying the learning process so far.

Josh

 

[jpcwon]

I too have great luck with circles. I'm an "ex-half stroke" guy who found that I get more control with circles. It's probably all in my head, but I find that I'm able to focus the pressure on certain parts of the blade that need it more effectively with circles..

Emmanuel's method works wonders for me. I find that you really don't need to dilute every set like dilucot..every couple of sets works fine for me...

 

[JHP]

I too have great luck with circles. I'm an "ex-half stroke" guy who found that I get more control with circles. It's probably all in my head, but I find that I'm able to focus the pressure on certain parts of the blade that need it more effectively with circles..

Emmanuel's method works wonders for me. I find that you really don't need to dilute every set like dilucot..every couple of sets works fine for me...

JP, do you finish on slurry as in Emmanuel's method? From the video it seems that he is diluting, but not to the point of finishing on water.