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Lance Armstong: A Tale of Triumph takes a Dark Turn

I'm only "against" Armstrong because of his choices--and his actions. If there were nothing to the allegations, I would agree that it could be classified as a witch hunt--but now it is obvious that this was a massive conspiracy, as the USADA report says. Many people knew about it, but because of Armstrong's power within the sport, his wealth, his aggressive legal tactics, his ability to intimidate, and the goodwill bubble around him due to his story and the Livestrong organization, he was able to avoid being caught. People came forth 10 years ago but were derided and ignored, and suffered professionally because of it. Armstrong, however, became a millionaire many times over, while hobnobbing with celebrities and visiting the White House.

But people knew he was dirty and persisted in "chasing" him. Actually, they were chasing the truth. It wasn't fair that so many others got caught, yet he got away (and in such an arrogant manner). Is it a witch hunt when we pursue organized crime or gangs because we suspect (or have evidence that) they are guilty, yet it's hard to pin it on them? No, the authorities have an obligation to do so. That is exactly why the USADA exists. When they have evidence of wrongdoing, they must follow it up. It would not be right or fair to anyone else to just drop it. And make no mistake, if you read the report and the many, many articles examining the whole affair, this was exactly like an organized crime syndicate, completely with omertà (silence and protection for all involved.)

His teammates who testified were some of his best friends--who went into battle with him for years--and who had no reason to give him up other than the fact that they were forced to. In fact, Leipheimer and Hamilton resisted, and only did so when forced to by a grand jury subpoena. (Remember, Martha Stewart went to prison not for the insider trading, but because she lied about it to a grand jury.) There was literally nothing in it for these guys--they only did it because they were forced to tell the truth. In fact, Leipheimer was fired by his team last week because of the admission and was also banned from racing for six months.

I'm a recreational roadie and I bought into the whole thing for years--I was a fan, supporter, and defender. I remember taking time off work and driving to a Nike store when he made an appearance. I, like so many others, loved his inspirational backstory of beating cancer and coming back to win against all odds. He was a golden boy--good-looking, well-spoken, a fierce competitor who beat back death and came back stronger. At some point, when so many other riders were implicated, I instinctively knew that there was no way he could be clean, yet beat all the other top riders who were doping. It just didn't pass the smell test. But I didn't want to believe it, and I hoped he never got caught. Obviously, that changed.

Read the report and the articles. Be open to the fact that they may actually be true. Read the details. There are great articles in the NY Times, ESPN, LA Times, Outside, the Sports Illustrated that just came out…the list goes on and on. Read them carefully and then see if you still think it's a witch hunt. All of his stock defenses and public rebuttals to the accusations are refuted and explained. As to the tired argument that he was tested so many times...there are numerous reasons for that. Read all about it and see if you still buy that argument.

In the end, you can't outrun (or outride) the truth.
 
I'm only "against" Armstrong because of his choices--and his actions. If there were nothing to the allegations, I would agree that it could be classified as a witch hunt--but now it is obvious that this was a massive conspiracy, as the USADA report says. Many people knew about it, but because of Armstrong's power within the sport, his wealth, his aggressive legal tactics, his ability to intimidate, and the goodwill bubble around him due to his story and the Livestrong organization, he was able to avoid being caught. People came forth 10 years ago but were derided and ignored, and suffered professionally because of it. Armstrong, however, became a millionaire many times over, while hobnobbing with celebrities and visiting the White House.

But people knew he was dirty and persisted in "chasing" him. Actually, they were chasing the truth. It wasn't fair that so many others got caught, yet he got away (and in such an arrogant manner). Is it a witch hunt when we pursue organized crime or gangs because we suspect (or have evidence that) they are guilty, yet it's hard to pin it on them? No, the authorities have an obligation to do so. That is exactly why the USADA exists. When they have evidence of wrongdoing, they must follow it up. It would not be right or fair to anyone else to just drop it. And make no mistake, if you read the report and the many, many articles examining the whole affair, this was exactly like an organized crime syndicate, completely with omertà (silence and protection for all involved.)

His teammates who testified were some of his best friends--who went into battle with him for years--and who had no reason to give him up other than the fact that they were forced to. In fact, Leipheimer and Hamilton resisted, and only did so when forced to by a grand jury subpoena. (Remember, Martha Stewart went to prison not for the insider trading, but because she lied about it to a grand jury.) There was literally nothing in it for these guys--they only did it because they were forced to tell the truth. In fact, Leipheimer was fired by his team last week because of the admission and was also banned from racing for six months.

I'm a recreational roadie and I bought into the whole thing for years--I was a fan, supporter, and defender. I remember taking time off work and driving to a Nike store when he made an appearance. I, like so many others, loved his inspirational backstory of beating cancer and coming back to win against all odds. He was a golden boy--good-looking, well-spoken, a fierce competitor who beat back death and came back stronger. At some point, when so many other riders were implicated, I instinctively knew that there was no way he could be clean, yet beat all the other top riders who were doping. It just didn't pass the smell test. But I didn't want to believe it, and I hoped he never got caught. Obviously, that changed.

Read the report and the articles. Be open to the fact that they may actually be true. Read the details. There are great articles in the NY Times, ESPN, LA Times, Outside, the Sports Illustrated that just came out…the list goes on and on. Read them carefully and then see if you still think it's a witch hunt. All of his stock defenses and public rebuttals to the accusations are refuted and explained. As to the tired argument that he was tested so many times...there are numerous reasons for that. Read all about it and see if you still buy that argument.

In the end, you can't outrun (or outride) the truth.

Alright, fess up. Who wrote that? lol I'm kidding, that's a great view.
 
Floyd wasn't chased. He tested positive and was stripped of the title the same year he won it.
Which follows the same pattern as most resent winners that tested positive.

Very true. I was meaning that Floyd was a bigger story than others because he like Armstrong denied and denied and then kept digging himself deeper in a hole. Then Landis' own ego volunteered his second sample on to come out positive ( like it really wouldn't) then finally admitting he doped.
 
It is just not sports where people have been caught. Football is filled with PED, FILLED with it. The NFL does NOTHING about it and most Americans are living in fantasy land avoiding the truth.

Anyways, Ben Johnson became the scapegoat for PED in track racing where everyone was doing it. Seems like now it is Lance Armstrong's turn. It's funny that most Americans didn't have a problem with Ben Johnson being the scapegoat yet now they have a problem with the "witch haunt" after Armstrong.

I agree. Carl Lewis also tested positive, I can't remember the whole story but it was a stimulant that was banned or that can be abused. There was a doctor that worked for the Olympic committee that even says that it was brushed under the rug.

And yes of course we would have a problem with an accusation like that but I bet you'll find more Americans not being fans now because of it. It's only the fans that keep the beating of the drum that it was a witchhunt.
 
EVERY sport has people that will cheat, bend rules, dope etc...
NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, track and field,... you name it. The thing that's a little different about this case. Is it's happening years removed for his titles. Ben Johnson was caught while the event was happening (at least that's what I recall). Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he was not the only one doping.. he just happened to be the one that got caught at that time.

The thing that leaves a bad taste in my mouth about it is the time frame from titles-to-disqualification. It my opinion, if they took any of the TDF / Olympic winners from the past 30 years and looked hard enough, they'll find something on every winner.
It not just Lance, like I said I don't like or dislike him .
On the same note.... Barry Bonds, I can't stand him. If at some point he was found to be juicing during his playing days ( which most would say he did ) I wouldn't agree with MLB stripping his record years removed from his playing days.

I guess my point is this. Almost every pro. sport is tainted. It has been for years and I don't see that change anytime soon.
If you are caught and found guilt during your active career, so be it.
If it's years removed from your active career, in my opinion, it's about the person and someones vendetta, not the problem.

I can't stand Bonds either. Not because you was on gear but because he was such a jerk. If he would have started some type of charity I'm sure he'd have a legion of fans too but all he was was one of baseballs unliked player outside San Francisco.
 
Lance was still competing in elite level Triatholons which still puts him active under all doping regulations and active to USADA investigation.

Is it still a witch hunt if you find a witch?

EVERY sport has people that will cheat, bend rules, dope etc...
NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, track and field,... you name it. The thing that's a little different about this case. Is it's happening years removed for his titles. Ben Johnson was caught while the event was happening (at least that's what I recall). Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he was not the only one doping.. he just happened to be the one that got caught at that time.

The thing that leaves a bad taste in my mouth about it is the time frame from titles-to-disqualification. It my opinion, if they took any of the TDF / Olympic winners from the past 30 years and looked hard enough, they'll find something on every winner.
It not just Lance, like I said I don't like or dislike him .
On the same note.... Barry Bonds, I can't stand him. If at some point he was found to be juicing during his playing days ( which most would say he did ) I wouldn't agree with MLB stripping his record years removed from his playing days.

I guess my point is this. Almost every pro. sport is tainted. It has been for years and I don't see that change anytime soon.
If you are caught and found guilt during your active career, so be it.
If it's years removed from your active career, in my opinion, it's about the person and someones vendetta, not the problem.
 
EVERY sport has people that will cheat, bend rules, dope etc...
NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, track and field,... you name it. The thing that's a little different about this case. Is it's happening years removed for his titles. Ben Johnson was caught while the event was happening (at least that's what I recall). Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he was not the only one doping.. he just happened to be the one that got caught at that time.

The thing that leaves a bad taste in my mouth about it is the time frame from titles-to-disqualification. It my opinion, if they took any of the TDF / Olympic winners from the past 30 years and looked hard enough, they'll find something on every winner.
It not just Lance, like I said I don't like or dislike him .
On the same note.... Barry Bonds, I can't stand him. If at some point he was found to be juicing during his playing days ( which most would say he did ) I wouldn't agree with MLB stripping his record years removed from his playing days.

I guess my point is this. Almost every pro. sport is tainted. It has been for years and I don't see that change anytime soon.
If you are caught and found guilt during your active career, so be it.
If it's years removed from your active career, in my opinion, it's about the person and someones vendetta, not the problem.

An 8-year statute of limitations is part of the rules and is addressed in great detail in the report:

"Fraudulent concealment or other efforts to subvert the legal process, such as perjury or witness intimidation can also result in suspension or waiver of the statute of limitations."

"Mr. Armstrong could have, but did not, challenge USADA’s assertion that the eight year statute of limitations found in the World Anti-Doping Code was suspended by Mr. Armstrong’s conduct."

"USADA is relying on the well-established principle that the running of a statute of limitation is suspended when the person seeking to assert the statute of limitation defense has subverted the judicial process, such as by fraudulently concealing his wrongful conduct."

Our individual opinions about when, why, and how these rules should be enforced are trumped by the actual rules. The statute of limitations is there to protect the athlete, but his actions were so egregious that they resulted in the invalidation of those protections (as explicitly provided by the rules).
 
I would like to say that I'm feeling a little vindicated by Lance's fall. A couple of years ago I posted here that he was a bad guy and the mods were on me like crazy.

Guess what? He's now a bad guy AND a Cheaty McCheaterson!
 
Just to be 100% clear I'm not a Lance supporter. Nor do I believe he didn't dope and don't own anything that's got "livestrong" or "US Postal" :001_smile

To me it's clear this was more about a vendetta to bring him down then it is about cleaning up the sport.
When you have Lemond recording phone conversation with anyone that may have info on Armstrong ..it just makes me raise a eyebrow. Is it about cleaning up the sport or personal against Armstrong?
It seems clear.
It seems most are coming from the perspective of "I'm glad they got him, they're cleaning up the sport"
I'm coming from the perspective of the tour is filled with doped riders and will be for years to come. It has little to do with cleaning up the sport and more about getting a individual.
We are just looking at it from 2 different angles and that cool. I would just rather see them spend the same amount of effort on cleaning up the sport today. By sport, I'm talking about the very top, not the guys running Triathlons.
 
FYI the prize money for Ironman World Championship – Kailua-Kona, HI 11 days ago was $650,000. Sounds to me like a whole lot of reasons to dope to win if you can not get caught. Doping is far too prevalent in any endurance sport.

Maybe I'm missing the connection to Lemond (who was likely just as doped up) but the beginning of the report reads as follows.

In November 2008 USADA proceeded to a hearing in a non-analytical case involving
U.S. cyclist Kayle Leogrande. Mr. Leogrande received a two year period of ineligibility for theuse of erythropoietin (EPO). Subsequently, in January of 2009, USADA received informationfrom a variety of sources with information about individuals who may have supplied Mr.Leogrande and other cyclists with performance enhancing drugs. Thereafter, USADAcommenced an investigation into drug use and distribution within the Southern Californiacycling scene and began making inquiries and following up on various leads related to this issue.USADA came to understand that Floyd Landis might have information useful to this​
effort.
 
No doubt 650k is a great payout but take into account the top pro rides are make around 1m not including sponsorship and endorsements.. Maybe I'm off and the top Tri's make the same. I just have my doubts that Armstong was make a serious push to become the top tri.
Do a search on Lemond and Armstrong, you'll find plenty to read :biggrin1:
 
I understand the well documented feud between Lemond and Armstrong. What I fail to see is the connection between Lemond, Tygard and the USADA that many many people seem to be drawing. Is Lemond happy right now, more then likely, is he somehow masterminding it, I doubt it.

Lance's 2012 Tri results, I'd call these a serious push to be a top triathlete.
1st Ironman 70.3 Hawaii,
1st Ironman 70.3, Florida
3rd Ironman 70.3, St. Croix
7th Ironman 70.3, Texas
2nd Ironman 70.3 Panama
 
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Given the feud between lemond and armstrong dating back to 01, then the fact that a good bit of testimony was give by Lemond wife just seems a little odd.
As for Tygard and USADA, like most things, they like feathers in the cap. It look good the the next job interview. Since they can't seem to win a big one against the MLB, they can't afford to loss others. Otherwise they would look bad :biggrin1:

Again, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he's clean. I'm just stating my opinion that they could bust any team given the effort they've put into Armstrong. My question is why. I think it comes down to something personal.
 
And don't get me wrong either, I think there is more back story behind this whole thing then we will ever know.

From a USADA perspective I assume they went after Lance because it was a huge story, with the disgrace of Tyler and Floyd and their willingness to roll on anything that moved it looked like it could be a win. I'd bet they never thought they would get Hincapie, Vaughters, Vande Velde, Barry, and the likes to say everything they did. Plus I assume the USADA only has authority over US athletes, and in cycling who's left other then Armstrong to go after.

The conspiracy theorists in me would love Lance to come clean because I'd bet Pat McQuaid and the UCI were involved in a lot more then just being inept.

Lastly I'm a big Garmin Slipstream fan (Go Ryder) and with their stance on doping I'm surprised Vaughters still has a job.
 
One of the more interesting things is the "pay off" to the UCI... I call BS on that.
I would be willing to say that the years Armstrong was racing would be their most profitable years.
If tests got swept under the rug, I doubt any "outside" payment would have been necessary ...lol
 
One of the more interesting things is the "pay off" to the UCI... I call BS on that.
I would be willing to say that the years Armstrong was racing would be their most profitable years.

I agree. It would be like golf losing Tiger woods. Both created more participants than the sports would have ever.
 
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