Got some good advice and used it. Thanks Doc! I honed on chosera 1k, 5k. Then broke 2 very light tomo slurries. Less than 5 minutes, finished on water only 20 laps. Perfect edge and shave. No fuss no muss. So far nakayama asagi mizu, shuobodani and ozuku got the same result. It sounded too easy but he was right. Try it is all I will say.
Jnats
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Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
That's about what I do; refresh bevels on a Shapton Pro 2k, then a Hakka (about 6+k) then the finisher with a tomo. Sometimes I'll do an extra round or an extra clear water finish on a very fine Ozuku or Nakayama if the edge isn't 10/10. Some razors seem to want a little extra, but most don't.
But I agree, if the bevel is in great shape, it doesn't take long.
Cheers, Steve
But I agree, if the bevel is in great shape, it doesn't take long.
Cheers, Steve
I have tried this exact progression with great results. I set the bevel on Chos 1k, then went to SS 3k & 5k.. Sometimes I will go to 8k but not always, You can easily go from 5k to tomo but I usually finish on tomo slurry versus water....The resulting edge is very nice indeed!
Excellent, glad to hear it.
We can all thank Alex for his Ax method of honing. I have tried going from the 1K to tomo slurry and it works but takes too long, an intermidiate step is nice.
We can all thank Alex for his Ax method of honing. I have tried going from the 1K to tomo slurry and it works but takes too long, an intermidiate step is nice.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
Alex has contributed a lot with the minimalist approach, and as a razor noob it has helped me understand honing. You can do it from 1k but you have to have a really fast cutting fine finisher. I do, but usually prefer the Hakka or a 5k synthetic for an intermediate step to erase the bevel setter marks. Japanese finishers fine and fast enough to really go from 1k with best results aren't that common, and I'd rather put the wear on a quality mid-grit stone.
If you want to go from 1k to finisher, make sure your stone monger knows that's what you're wanting to do when you select the stone. A really, really fine suita is a good choice.
You will also find very very fine Japanese finishers that are very worthwhile that you cannot go from 1k with.
Cheers, Steve
If you want to go from 1k to finisher, make sure your stone monger knows that's what you're wanting to do when you select the stone. A really, really fine suita is a good choice.
You will also find very very fine Japanese finishers that are very worthwhile that you cannot go from 1k with.
Cheers, Steve
I've done this and found the resulting edge to be lacking in refinement. A semi-working shortcut of sorts.
Alex did make a video of it, but going from the 5k synth to the Awase isn't/wasn't news. Most Jnats used for finishing are around the 5k zone (loosely speaking here) to start with and it's been a natural/common move for a lot of traditional woodworkers for a long time.
I actually prefer the results from going from 3k to to the Awase better. I can't explain why that seems to work better for me though. Just one of those things but it falls in line with the fact that I truly dislike going from 8k or higher to the Jnat.
Alex did make a video of it, but going from the 5k synth to the Awase isn't/wasn't news. Most Jnats used for finishing are around the 5k zone (loosely speaking here) to start with and it's been a natural/common move for a lot of traditional woodworkers for a long time.
I actually prefer the results from going from 3k to to the Awase better. I can't explain why that seems to work better for me though. Just one of those things but it falls in line with the fact that I truly dislike going from 8k or higher to the Jnat.
Why do you dislike going from the 8k and higher to the Jnat Gama?
I'll have my 1kC soon but I don't have higher synthetic then that. I wonder if going to 3um film then the JNAT routine you described would work.
Because I find that it forces a limitation on the finished edge.
The edge is already basically done at 8k, without retarding the edge a bit first, there's only so much further I can go without causing a distraction.
What I do like the 8k hop for is testing finishing techniques, it removes some variables, using synths lets me zero the edge more accurately Or at least more consistently.
This is what I find to be true here, in my house, following my honing efforts and after shaving with dozens and dozens of edges honed with progressive progressions; 1k-Jnat, 1k-3k-Jnat, 1k-3k-5k-Jnat, and so on. Someone else will find their experiences to be different.
I don't like the edge from any of those regimens much though, I prefer to use a Nagura progression after the 3k. Or, when possible, to leave the synths out and set the bevel on Botan and then progress.
Very interesting indeed! Thank you, I respect your oppinion and will need to experiment further. Your honing skills are well known by me so I definitely appreciate the answer.
Most things 'work' - after that, it's about refinement based on sensation/perception.
I don't use films so I don't know how they cut, but 3um should be somewhere between 3-5k I think and it should work.
I'm guessing on the grit/micron calculation, that should be checked.
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- #12
Well, I'll just do some trial and error. It's a good thought, something to consider trying out and messing around with.
I have a question regarding Alex's method, as seen on his video. (He uses an ambidextrous approach there, which is most interesting to see.) As I recall, he runs a 10-5-3-2-1 count (or 8-4-2-1) count on each side of the blade. When he brings the blade back to the starting position, is he using a stropping motion there (essentially creating a half-stroke), or is he lifting the edge up?
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Hi Potash
I do lift the blade on the return stroke and only hone on the forward stroke. I feel that the blades edge forward motion is more congruent to a repeatable stroke. Also the friction no matter how slight between the stone and the steel in the edge leading stroke to me reminds me of putting on the brakes of a car where the front end makes a diving motion. On the stone this creates a very positive position between the steel and the stone, much more so than a draging spine leading or back stroke.
Alx
I do lift the blade on the return stroke and only hone on the forward stroke. I feel that the blades edge forward motion is more congruent to a repeatable stroke. Also the friction no matter how slight between the stone and the steel in the edge leading stroke to me reminds me of putting on the brakes of a car where the front end makes a diving motion. On the stone this creates a very positive position between the steel and the stone, much more so than a draging spine leading or back stroke.
Alx
Thanks a lot for your reply. I had seen your video a little over a year ago, and had mistakenly thought that you were keeping the edge on the stone during the return. In any case, I was very interested in your switch-handed approach because I am left-handed when it comes to two-handed bench honing and right-handed when it comes hand-held honing. This encouraged me to use both hands on the bench following your example. Also, as I mostly use an Arkansas oil-stone sequence (rather than Jnats as shown) using half-strokes really helped to speed up the process in my case. The resulting edges were very nice too. Problem for me with two-handed honing has always been that I tend to build up a burr there, so including a bit of back spin keeps it at bay. Don't have this problem with one-handed honing, though, where either a more lateral pass or rolling X tends to equalize things.
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I can't find his video. Can someone post a link? Sorry.
edit. Never mind. Found them.
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I didn't know a bevel can be set on Botan. I'm assuming this would only really work well with an edge that was recently shave ready as opposed to a fresh Gold Dollar or an antique store pickup?
Oh no, it can work on most blades, might take several refreshing of the slurry but you can hone out chips.
It is much faster to use something else thought, I would never "waste" botan slurry on a quality stone setting a bevel on a GD that was not previously beat into submission with a courser stone.
Once you do get the bevel set then botan will clean it up nicely.
I sometimes set the bevel on a big botan with botan slurry-you can almost shave off it it is so nice
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I did a blade yesterday on the chosera 1k, bbw,coti(instead of the chosera 5k) then jnat as weve talked about. Great edge. Didn't notice a difference between the chosera5 vs bbw/coti then Jnat. Are there "fast" Jnats and is there any real difference as opposed to using what I have used here? I have the itch and haven't bought a stone in a few weeks! BUT I don't want to spend money if Im not gaining anything.
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