Interesting (but pricey) SE concept - BornSharp self-sharpening razor

[MacDaddy]

At a $370+shipping early-adopter price I can't say that I'm going to rush right out and buy one, but I'd be interested to hear what you folks think of the BornSharp.

[video=vimeo;78946398]https://vimeo.com/78946398[/video]

Basically, it looks like something of an updating of the Ronson self-sharpening razor crossed with a Micromatic sort of form factor. I don't really get how this would be any better or more cost-effective than just using an SE with disposable blades, but they seem to be aiming more for the cartridge user who wants to stop having to buy anything to do with their razor.

Call me a skeptic, but I'm also just not sold on the idea that they could keep what, from their illustrations, would appear to be a thin wafer blade (they also mention that their blade supplier is in Virginia -- I'm thinking American Safety Razor, most likely) properly conditioned over five real years of use as opposed to 2000 cycles in a test setting. But maybe I'm wrong. What do you all think?

 

[coolbus18]

Very interesting but I'll pass also. Just another machine that I don't need.

 

[morseman]

I have to admit that i like the looks of the razor but way to pricey, and you could buy plenty of razors
and blades for that money.

Just my 2p

 

[dcobranchi]

I could shave with a brand new Treet every day for 5 years for about half of what they're charging. And I think my lather catcher looks way​ cooler.

 

[Luc]

The idea is nice but a self sharpening razor isn't what I want. Just the razor where I could load a standard SE blade blade would be nice!

 

[mblakele]

This is the right place for the discussion anyway.

Luc, you raise a good point. Maybe someone will try it and tell us if it can take standard SE blades?

Reading through the description a second time, I see that it promises some scope for customization: adjustable blade angle and adjustable sharpening time. I am not sure that would be enough to make up for a completely proprietary system, but it shows that the designer put some thought into it.

Edit: forgot to mention that I like the doortag. Maybe WCS or another vendor should borrow that idea....

 

[Luc]

The razor itself looks nice but if I could just load a standard blade in it, I would be happy. The current price does not appeal for now. Anyways, that was well covered already in this thread and the other one.

 

[DrumZalot]

Though the design is appealing and it's a single edge razor I just won't pay that much money for it. In fact I won't pay that much amount for any razor even the vintage SE razors that I want.

 

[Nayskin]

Yeah, blades arent much of an issue so I think they would have been far better off just selling it as a regular SE & to lose the sharpening system. I'd buy a stainless SE if I could, but at a much cheaper price, of course.

 

[alex2363]

Very thought out and researched post , thanks as always. I would go with your last part of the post. I would rather buy a ton of blades and just toss them instead of getting a 80 percent sharp shave from this somewhat novelty item. The cost and extra work is not worth it.

 

[BarbaGnosa]

Wow, this is fascinating! Great to see innovation happening in shaving tools and tech.

What seems clear to me is that BornSharp is responding to several major trends in shaving:

• 
  [*=1]Trading-Up Trending Down
  Gillette and Schick's long term strategy -- keep trading up to more blades -- appears to be petering out, particularly challenged during this deep, extended global recession. More blades for more money not only no longer seems to provide better shaving experience, it's decreasingly affordable and cost effective for more of the population.
  [*=1]Shaving as a service
  Dollar Shave club and a growing number of other start-ups are now selling shaving as a subscription service, more convenient and economical. For a substantial discount from the cost of Gillette multi-blade, subscribers get a free handle with a monthly supply of razorblades, so you'll always be shaving with a fresh blade -- typically cartridges, although some are adding DE to their lines (eg. RazWar).
  [*=1]DIY Retro rising
  The Great Recession has given a huge boost to traditional crafts. Consumers’ need to economize has merged with hand-made, DIY, naturally healthy, sustainable and retro chics. Further, in response to modern androgyny, some men are reaching back to historic masculinities, including the DE, SR and kit. Another factor is history: traditional shaving brushes, DEs and SRs have been gone long enough (2+ generations) to have retro'd into steampunking cool. In our industrialized, automated, anodyne age, brush lathering, DE and SR shaving utilize steampunk tech and cool kit many have only seen (if at all) in old movies and photos, and require skill and a touch of daring (or there will be blood) -- all of which are cool and masculine, and the sign of an individualist (James Bond now shaves with a straight razor, when not using a double edge). For others, retro means luxury -- thus the growth of the Art of Shaving and other deluxe personal grooming companies with rising sales of traditional shaving wet and hardware for prices ranging from premium to lavish, $1000 custom razors, and bidding wars for antique shaving kit on eBay.

BornSharp offers improvements in:

• 
  [*=1]Cost effectiveness, improved performance alternative to cartridges. For those who do, in fact, replace their cartridge every week (a smallish minority, I suspect), BornSharp does offer a large cost saving.
  [*=1]Retro-Steampunk: both high-tech and low-tech, therefore kind of steampunk, and, as the background music in their video suggests, a bit Bond.
  [*=1]Convenience: you only need to buy it once, and then a new blade every five years.
  [*=1]Superior shaves for most cartridge users, since a single blade is less irritating, provides more control and precision, and since most shavers use their cartridges for longer than their optimal shave lifecycle.

I see this as very appealing to key populations:

• 
  [*=1]Cartridge shavers seeking a better shave: For anyone currently shaving with cartridges, BornSharp seems to offer a better shave. If, in fact, the system sharpens the blades to a really good, sharp, comfortable edge, they'll offer a better, closer, more comfortable, controlled, detailed shave than cartridges. That is a big if, and yet to be demonstrated. But, that's also highly feasible. If BornSharp doesn't deliver, someone should be able to. The question is at what price?
  [*=1]Cartridge shavers seeking cost savings: ~$3.85/cartridge/week is what BornSharp estimates cartridge shavers spend. That's $0.55/shave with cartridges vs. $0.25/shave w/BornSharp. For anyone who uses a cartridge a week, they offer over 50% cost saving -- after five years.
  • 
    [*=2]On the other hand, a large part of the population isn't buying a new cartridge every week. At one cartridge/two weeks, then BornSharp comes in around the same cost/shave as cartridges. So, that reduces by a large percentage the size of the population for whom BornSharp offers a cost saving, one of their key benefits. And then there's that large up-front cost they've got to figure out how to overcome as an obstacle to switching.
  
  [*=1]Retro/Steampunk: The device is nicely (not extravagantly, lavishly, but cleanly, elegantly, essentially) designed, and has a bit of a modern yet retro design appeal.
  [*=1]Convenience: For those for whom convenience is a top consideration, this is hard to beat. As long as the sharpening system endures. That can only be proven over time. That's part of the risk and a potentially sunk cost.
  [*=1]Luxury & Gadgets: Luxury tech enthusiasts, currently shaving with cartridges or perhaps electric razors who're eager to try the latest technologies, especially if they're a deluxe item, for whom a $500 price is an attractive status, quality, class distinguisher. Since this is the market for whom a $500 price is an attractive feature (not an obstacle), who are probably already using cartridges at the rate of one/week, it's they who'd get the most cost-saving benefits as well, and would be the core initial target.

But, for those who've already switched to SE/DE shaving, BornSharp lacks these popular virtues:

• 
  [*=1]No blade variety. You've got one blade for five years. While you can adjust the angle and sharpness to some degree, that's just one blade. It does appear at least some SE/DE shavers enjoy switching blades, comparing, exploring.
  [*=1]What if it's not your favorite blade? And, what if that BornSharp blade just doesn't give as nice a shave as others available for a small fraction of the price? Then you've sunk $400-500 in just another razor in your rotation.
  [*=1]Cost savings for most cartridge and DE/SE shavers will be far less. When I used Sensor cartridges (until 2013), depending on how poor I was feeling, I'd use them from 2 to 4 weeks, and sometimes I switched down to knock-off cartridges, and use those for 2 to 4 weeks. Even then I felt I was spending too much, was locked into a product from which I was getting decreasing satisfaction. So, one of the appeals of DE shaving is that you can get a better shave for a SMALL FRACTION of the cost of even the most frugal cartridge shaving regimen, with DE shaving starting around $40 for a full kit and year's worth of quality blades and wetware. For instance:http://i.imgur.com/XgWS3vl.jpg
  [*=1]Unpedigreed: No track record, pedigree
  [*=1]Uncertain Aftermarket: Although, that could change within a year or two.

So, it's unlikely that BornSharp will capture much of the existing traditional SE/DE population, although certainly some. Totally off the top of my head, I imagine perhaps 5-20% of the traditional (SE, DE, SR) population would be interested and able to ante up $500 for the latest, new-hot technology SE razor of this type. But that's ancillary to their primary target. Current SE/DE shavers is too small a group, and the vast majority already has too much knowledge, skill, options, kit for most to want to invest that much money in a single, untested new technology with neither track record, pedigree, nor confirmed aftermarket. And most current SE/DE shavers are not driven by convenience and cost savings.

To be successful, BornSharp needs to capture at least a small fraction of cartridge users. And, as the trends at top suggest, that's a very ripe user group for poaching/converting shavers. If they can get enough participants to launch via their current campaign (they only need 267 - hard to imagine they won't reach that), they'll be well on their way. Then they've gotta have the marketing, the customer fulfillment and support, ability to scale production, etc. And, they've gotta keep it up for at least the lifetime of the first generation. Once they've delivered several years of shaves which are consistent, dependable, convenient, and more cost-effective than cartridges, they'll have delivered their key value proposition. The longer they're fulfilling that value proposition, and getting good reviews, they should grow. Launch with a target on luxury and gadget markets, upmarket young professionals, techies, and use that as a seed population from which to appeal to widening demographics. Launch US, EU, Asia then manage your growth trajectory, market penetration, reach, and most of all share.

Upcoming challenges:

• 
  [*=1]how long will it be before someone improves on their system? Adjustable angle and blade gap. Interchangeable blades with different qualities. Better, more adjustable blade sharpening and possibly coating (teflon) systems? More varied razor styles.
  [*=1]Also, they can grow their userbase dramatically if they can bring the initial cost down. They'll need to explore extended payment programs, as well as different price points. Scale will enable them to offer these.
  [*=1]If they are successful, how long will it be before the big shaving brands come out with competing systems. Gillette, Schick, Braun, Remington, Norelco can use their brand recognition to establish market shares, and then how will BornSharp differentiate itself and hold onto share? They'll have to have a clear sense of their value and trajectory and under what terms and at what point it makes sense to stay indie vs. be acquired, and if so by whom.

 

[ouch]

Gentlemen:

While this is certainly a novel and intriguing approach to a razor, article 9b of the terms of service prohibit links to fundraisers.

9b. Any attempts at promoting gambling, raffles or unauthorized use of this site for fund-raising is strictly prohibited, this would include, but is not limited to such things as charity events, "vote for me/someone I know in a contest", solicitations for medical treatment costs or political campaigns. This means that Kickstarter is also prohibited (and any sites like it).

Rather than delete the entire thread, which has the potential for some interesting conversation, the thread required some considerable trimming to continue. I apologize for any heavy-handedness in this regard, and look forward to continued discussion, as long as it avoids mention of fundraising.

 

[mblakele]

Sorry about that: one of my posts apparently crossed the line. Ignorance of the rules is no excuse - and not even plausible in my case. But maybe I can claim senility instead? I have a note from my doctor: just a minute while I try to remember where I left it....

Is it acceptable to post the patent link again? I thought the technical details were interesting.

 

[ouch]

Sure thing. I think the patent details make for terrific conversation fodder.

As for senility, all I can say is my latest pickup line is "Hey babe, do I come here often?"

 

[mblakele]

Thanks. The patent applications seem to be US20130237134 and WO2013134198A1. The first link has more images.

There are a few details on the blade: "For the example embodiment, the razor blade is a steel alloy in the 200 series with post hardening treatment to achieve a Rockwell hardness of approx. 58-62. The edge of the blade is sharpened to an included angle of 15 degrees. The blade will include the ridges 70 as a stamped feature. The thickness of the blade is between 0.035″-0.045″" The 200 series alloys are austenitic, while DE and SE blades are martensitic. How does that compare to straight razor blades?

The described sharpening would use "cubic boron nitride (CBN) crystals of a desired grit level (between 4kand 15k) embedded in rubber cylinders" or "injection molded plastic with a thin coating of Cubic Boron Nitride (CBN) dust or diamond dust bonded to its surface... 0.25-2 microns in size". How does this compare with honing a straight?

Some of the features might seem a little gimmicky: sanitizing the blade with UV light, or the built-in electromagnet that "enhances corrosion resistance by alignment of the metal ions in a plane of the shaving edge of the blade with an electromagnetic field after the sharpening cycle". There is some evidence that magnetic fields influence corrosion: http://info.tuwien.ac.at/cta/korrosion/forschung/magnet.html or http://www.jcse.org/volume6/paper46/v6p46.php or http://www.electrochem.org/dl/ma/203/pdfs/0635.pdf for example. However from what I understand a magnetic field can also accelerate corrosion. It also seems a little odd because elsewhere we read that the blade is austenitic, so it should be non-magnetic. Does anyone use magnets when honing straights?

 

[luvmysuper]

200 series was developed to save on the cost of the 300 series nickel content, it's primary appeal is the lower cost. Corrosion resistance is not as good as the 300 series. It is non-magnetic and is malleable. I would guess that the lower cost, reasonable corrosion resistance and formability are the reasons it was chosen.
Having said that, I don't get the electro-magnetic thing either.

 

[alex2363]

Very thought out and researched post , thanks as always. I would go with your last part of the post. I would rather buy a ton of blades and just toss them instead of getting a 80 percent sharp shave from this somewhat novelty item. The cost and extra work is not worth it.

Sorry about that: one of my posts apparently crossed the line. Ignorance of the rules is no excuse - and not even plausible in my case. But maybe I can claim senility instead? I have a note from my doctor: just a minute while I try to remember where I left it....

Is it acceptable to post the patent link again? I thought the technical details were interesting.

Talking about Senility, i did remember quoting your post.....then all of sudden it was gone. { it was part of the Phil edit part}

 

[alex2363]

Thanks. The patent applications seem to be US20130237134 and WO2013134198A1. The first link has more images.

There are a few details on the blade: "For the example embodiment, the razor blade is a steel alloy in the 200 series with post hardening treatment to achieve a Rockwell hardness of approx. 58-62. The edge of the blade is sharpened to an included angle of 15 degrees. The blade will include the ridges 70 as a stamped feature. The thickness of the blade is between 0.035″-0.045″" The 200 series alloys are austenitic, while DE and SE blades are martensitic. How does that compare to straight razor blades?

The described sharpening would use "cubic boron nitride (CBN) crystals of a desired grit level (between 4kand 15k) embedded in rubber cylinders" or "injection molded plastic with a thin coating of Cubic Boron Nitride (CBN) dust or diamond dust bonded to its surface... 0.25-2 microns in size". How does this compare with honing a straight?

Some of the features might seem a little gimmicky: sanitizing the blade with UV light, or the built-in electromagnet that "enhances corrosion resistance by alignment of the metal ions in a plane of the shaving edge of the blade with an electromagnetic field after the sharpening cycle". There is some evidence that magnetic fields influence corrosion: http://info.tuwien.ac.at/cta/korrosion/forschung/magnet.html or http://www.jcse.org/volume6/paper46/v6p46.php or http://www.electrochem.org/dl/ma/203/pdfs/0635.pdf for example. However from what I understand a magnetic field can also accelerate corrosion. It also seems a little odd because elsewhere we read that the blade is austenitic, so it should be non-magnetic. Does anyone use magnets when honing straights?

I think that a good portion of the edge will be gone way before the 5th year. The other elements are just not viable for me to even consider. This is just a novelty item for me. [YMMV]

 

[alex2363]

Thanks. The patent applications seem to be US20130237134 and WO2013134198A1. The first link has more images.

There are a few details on the blade: "For the example embodiment, the razor blade is a steel alloy in the 200 series with post hardening treatment to achieve a Rockwell hardness of approx. 58-62. The edge of the blade is sharpened to an included angle of 15 degrees. The blade will include the ridges 70 as a stamped feature. The thickness of the blade is between 0.035″-0.045″" The 200 series alloys are austenitic, while DE and SE blades are martensitic. How does that compare to straight razor blades?

The described sharpening would use "cubic boron nitride (CBN) crystals of a desired grit level (between 4kand 15k) embedded in rubber cylinders" or "injection molded plastic with a thin coating of Cubic Boron Nitride (CBN) dust or diamond dust bonded to its surface... 0.25-2 microns in size". How does this compare with honing a straight?

Some of the features might seem a little gimmicky: sanitizing the blade with UV light, or the built-in electromagnet that "enhances corrosion resistance by alignment of the metal ions in a plane of the shaving edge of the blade with an electromagnetic field after the sharpening cycle". There is some evidence that magnetic fields influence corrosion: http://info.tuwien.ac.at/cta/korrosion/forschung/magnet.html or http://www.jcse.org/volume6/paper46/v6p46.php or http://www.electrochem.org/dl/ma/203/pdfs/0635.pdf for example. However from what I understand a magnetic field can also accelerate corrosion. It also seems a little odd because elsewhere we read that the blade is austenitic, so it should be non-magnetic. Does anyone use magnets when honing straights?

Maybe this concept is just coming of age.............