I just had a shave off of 8k

[joel]

From Tim Zowada's site:

The edge off of the 8000:

After 10 laps on Cromox:

You can see that the edge after the Cromo is much smoother than the edge directly off of the 8K.

The real question is: are the higher grit hones needed, if in the end you're gonna hit the Cromox anyhow?

I know that somewhere Joel said that he found that by going direct from the DMT8EE to chromox gave just about as good an edge as anything else out there (I'm paraphrasing, but I believe that was his stated conclusion)

You are correct - i've had killer results doing just that - I shocked some of the fellas at the little honing workshop at the Japan Woodworker a few months ago showing them how quickly I could take a flat dull razor to a smooth shaver with 2 cheapo DMT's and a paddle with green chrome... in just a matter of minutes.

 

[joel]

well, i would use one of those before going to 0.1 micron diamond, but yeah using one of these as stepping stone to crox or 0.5 micron diamond is pretty silly, since these hones are as fine or finer than those pastes. If you're gonna use a paste then you're better to jump there straight from the 8k.

Needless to say my s30 and nakayama pretty much just sit in the closet keeping each other company.

+1

 

[SavantStrike]

If I noticed a significant difference when I added the 12k rather than went straight to the chrome ox, does this mean that my chrome ox paddle isn't pasted heavily enough? Every edge I have tried to refresh on it gets a little better, but not the huge improvement you guys are talking about.

I'm starting to think that it's not well laid out. It's only an inch and a half wide, and I didn't sand it very well before pasting it. Do you guys think I should make a new one... one that is BBS and has a bit more surface area?

 

[mparker762]

Generally less paste makes for a sharper edge, but the tradeoff is more laps for the same effect. Also if you're using pastes on a leather paddle or hanging strop you have to be very careful of pressure.

 

[SavantStrike]

Generally less paste makes for a sharper edge, but the tradeoff is more laps for the same effect. Also if you're using pastes on a leather paddle or hanging strop you have to be very careful of pressure.

Then chances are good I just didn't do nearly enough laps.

 

[Seraphim]

You want just a vague thin green haze on your Chromox strop, not a rich green like on the fairways at the Augusta golf club!

 

[huracan]

Generally less paste makes for a sharper edge, but the tradeoff is more laps for the same effect. Also if you're using pastes on a leather paddle or hanging strop you have to be very careful of pressure.

When the time comes that I need to, I was planning on building a bench hone using my practice strop leather and diamond paste. I'm rethinking this to just going with balsa and paste.

 

[mparker762]

Balsa is soft enough that you still have to be careful. It's nothing to worry about, just be aware of it when you're stropping, and just lightly waft the blade over the strop.

 

[huracan]

Balsa is soft enough that you still have to be careful. It's nothing to worry about, just be aware of it when you're stropping, and just lightly waft the blade over the strop.

Gotcha, thank you.

 

[gregs656]

After seeing those pictures, I orderd some chromox. I don't think I will use it on my favorite shavers initially, my Wilkinson (for example) is an absolutely bloody fantastic shaver off the coticule, as are the others.

I'll try it on some fresh blades and see what happens. I might have to buy a microscope, I am starting to appreciate how useful one might be. I had a razor earlier, an old sheffield, that just seemed to get duller from 4k up, a scope would be useful on something like that I think.

 

[mparker762]

After seeing those pictures, I orderd some chromox. I don't think I will use it on my favorite shavers initially, my Wilkinson (for example) is an absolutely bloody fantastic shaver off the coticule, as are the others.

I'll try it on some fresh blades and see what happens. I might have to buy a microscope, I am starting to appreciate how useful one might be. I had a razor earlier, an old sheffield, that just seemed to get duller from 4k up, a scope would be useful on something like that I think.

For some even better pics, take a look at the verhoeven paper, which has 3,000x pics of blades honed on various stones and pastes.

 

[Matt O]

This is a neat post. I have been using a Chosera 1k followed by various natural stones in my progression as I tweak things here and there in pursuit of a perfect shaving edge for my face.

Today I decided to switch things up for the first half of the progression...I used the Chosera 1k, a Shapton Glass 4K, and a Lobster Mark Naniwa 8K.

I checked the scratch pattern on the bevel near the edge after each step with my 10x loupe, and after I was done with the 8K it was very very light. I was curious, so I stropped the razor, and it passed the HHT all along the edge. It got me thinking that this shaving off of the 8K could be done, so I googled it...and found this thread.

At any rate I finished the second half of the progression through to running water on my jasper.


I might give shaving off the 8 a try!

Vr

Matt

 

[Slash McCoy]

I have to say it wasn't the bloodbath or the irritation festival that I was expecting based on how desperately some people here say you need to use higher grits. I think I will go ahead and put the blade though the 12k stage now as I do believe it makes a difference in the smoothness of the shave (no competition, the 12k does give that last little bit of sharpness), but for someone who doesn't have a 12k, your legs aren't broken.

Setup was simple. I honed a blade though 1k, 4k, and 8k and gave it a bunch of hits on the pasted canvas, then went back and gave it 15 hits on chromium oxide, then went for pasted canvas followed by leather. I compared it to my current blade and both shaved well, in fact since I liked the 8k blade better (it looks cooler, and it's mildly heavier) I put the 12k blade down and used the 8k. Both blades are 5/8 1/2 hollow blades, and this is as close to apples to apples as I could have gotten. At some point I will do it one better and commit another experiment. More on that when/if it ever happens.

Naaah. The lapped and pasted balsa progression to .1u (200k) gives that last bit of sharpness. The 12k is just the setup for it.

But yeah, there was a time when a Norton 8k was considered a finisher. And with lather or dish soap or glycerine, you can leverage a better quality 8k such as a Naniwa to give an edge that is more what you would expect from a stone significantly finer. There are other tricks like the extra short x stroke and the pull stroke and most importantly, honing in hand, that will increase your honing joy, as well.

 

[EspressoAndAftershave]

Funny that this came up. I've been thinking about running a year long experiment with a new razor I'll be buying soon:

4-sided paddle strop with 3.6, 2.5, 1.6 pastes, CrOx, and then plain leather finisher to start, and then CrOx for ~10 laps, followed by plain leather, before every shave, and then compare the edge at the end of the year.