It isn’t necessary to thin it. I just apply a few very small dots of paste and rub it around with a finger. Those little diamond bits get all over the balsa even though you can’t see them.
How To Use a Pasted Balsa Strop
- Thread starter Slash McCoy
- Start date
I’m just following original directions. On the .01u I havemade , I don’t feel Like the distribution is even and would like the .25 u and .5 u to have more even distribution
- Thread starter
- #503
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Where did you get .01u paste? I wouldn't bother with it, anyway. .1u is about as fine as you can use to good effect. .01u is only 10 nanometers. Thats kinda small. Like electron microscope small. The wavelength of light visible to the human eye, for comparison, is about 390 to 700 nanometers. So .01u is really really really small.
I didn’t think you did metric. Now I’m really disappointed.
- Thread starter
- #505
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
I didn't know I was, at first. I remember when a micron meant a millionth of an inch.
Is random balsa from a craft store suitable or is there something in particular I should look for? Aside from no obvious imperfections, worth looking through their inventory for a piece with a more consistent grain or something?
- Thread starter
- #508
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
I'm not choosy. If it looks okay its okay, AFAIK.
Just went over this again, great info. Thank you
i read about claims of specific nuances provided by different finishing stones, even films......
lets say i finish a SR on film , or any (fill in exotic hone name) , then finish with .5u,.25u, .1u pasted balsa followed by strop.
Do I loose the characteristic of (fill in exotic hone name)????
Is primary characteristic now "pasted balsa" vs (fill in exotic hone name)?
lets say i finish a SR on film , or any (fill in exotic hone name) , then finish with .5u,.25u, .1u pasted balsa followed by strop.
Do I loose the characteristic of (fill in exotic hone name)????
Is primary characteristic now "pasted balsa" vs (fill in exotic hone name)?
- Thread starter
- #511
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Yes it will then be a balsa "Method" edge. But in order to achieve this, the balsa progression must have a very sharp edge with a very precise bevel to build upon. You cannot get a proper Method edge by balsa stropping a razor with a so-so edge. It's like when Curley Stooge tries to think. Nothing happens.
It’s 8.15am here in UK and I just woke up and read this and started laughing.
Somebody needs to compile these quotes into a book
I’ll bet he has got some really good ones uncensored!It’s 8.15am here in UK and I just woke up and read this and started laughing.
Somebody needs to compile these quotes into a book
So I finally got around to building these and trying them on a couple of razors. Summary: The Method lives up to the hype, totally worth the scavenger hunt and far sharper than I'd been able to manage otherwise. Possible sharper than Feather blades? Really sharp anyway.
I don't know if it would be a great source for Canada in general because they wanted a fair bit for shipping, but Acrylics By Design here in Toronto was pleasant to deal with, had the best pricing of the places I contacted, and did a fantastic job. Since I dragged a couple others into this idea and got a couple pieces for backing my stones, I was also buying enough of them that the $25 extra labor to do the cutting on CNC (and get the dimensions exact) + polish the edges was well worth it. I find the polished edges are comfortable to hold and am glad I didn't pay for chamfering which was significantly more.
Ted Pella's shipping to Canada was quite expensive. Found this listing for diamond powder on eBay that offers the necessary particle sizes at a good price that included shipping and so decided to give it a shot despite this deviating from The Method and perhaps thus sacrificing Best Possible Results.
To apply it I used a piece of thin plastic roughly the size of the balsa. Using a chopstick, I placed a bit of diamond powder (probably more than 10% of 1/3 of a pinto bean, but that's what I was aiming for) on the plastic and then poured a bit of mineral oil on it. Then I folded the plastic over that, mixed it around, and tried to distribute it evenly over the surface which I then placed on the balsa and rubbed around until I couldn't see any diamond/oil left on the plastic. Reassuringly, I couldn't really see it on the balsa, which might lead one to believe it wasn't enough but thanks to Slash's eloquent description I knew that meant I was on the right track.
I then rubbed it in further with a soft cloth that presumably also took care of any excess. At this point it really looked like I hadn't done anything so it was nice to see a bit of swarf accumulate when I started using it, mostly on the .5µ as you'd expect.
One thing I would suggest is also wiping the balsa before applying the diamond. Even though I used a blower to get rid of the sawdust after sanding, I found I was surprised by how much material the dry cloth collected when I wiped the first strop. Experimentally, I tried wiping the second strop pre-diamond and found a similar result. Seems the finest of the dust managed to cling to the wood.
So far, while I'm convinced this is the sharpest edge I've experienced, it hasn't been the most comfortable shave. But I am quite inexperienced and do find that the resulting irritation is also tending to happen exactly where I expect: on my neck where I have the most sensitive skin and worst technique. As a result, I assume this is just the sharper edge being less forgiving of my errors.
I did do some draw strokes, but if I didn't fully remove the fin edge, would it be obvious? eg. would it likely be rough all over and not just where I happen to be most sensitive? The edge looked smooth on my cheap 640x480 "800x" usb microscope, would a fin edge be inconsistent and jagged from partially breaking off?
Toronto source for acrylic
I don't know if it would be a great source for Canada in general because they wanted a fair bit for shipping, but Acrylics By Design here in Toronto was pleasant to deal with, had the best pricing of the places I contacted, and did a fantastic job. Since I dragged a couple others into this idea and got a couple pieces for backing my stones, I was also buying enough of them that the $25 extra labor to do the cutting on CNC (and get the dimensions exact) + polish the edges was well worth it. I find the polished edges are comfortable to hold and am glad I didn't pay for chamfering which was significantly more.
Alternate approach using diamond powder
Ted Pella's shipping to Canada was quite expensive. Found this listing for diamond powder on eBay that offers the necessary particle sizes at a good price that included shipping and so decided to give it a shot despite this deviating from The Method and perhaps thus sacrificing Best Possible Results.
To apply it I used a piece of thin plastic roughly the size of the balsa. Using a chopstick, I placed a bit of diamond powder (probably more than 10% of 1/3 of a pinto bean, but that's what I was aiming for) on the plastic and then poured a bit of mineral oil on it. Then I folded the plastic over that, mixed it around, and tried to distribute it evenly over the surface which I then placed on the balsa and rubbed around until I couldn't see any diamond/oil left on the plastic. Reassuringly, I couldn't really see it on the balsa, which might lead one to believe it wasn't enough but thanks to Slash's eloquent description I knew that meant I was on the right track.
I then rubbed it in further with a soft cloth that presumably also took care of any excess. At this point it really looked like I hadn't done anything so it was nice to see a bit of swarf accumulate when I started using it, mostly on the .5µ as you'd expect.
Wipe after sanding
One thing I would suggest is also wiping the balsa before applying the diamond. Even though I used a blower to get rid of the sawdust after sanding, I found I was surprised by how much material the dry cloth collected when I wiped the first strop. Experimentally, I tried wiping the second strop pre-diamond and found a similar result. Seems the finest of the dust managed to cling to the wood.
Question: How would I know if I still had a fin/wire edge?
So far, while I'm convinced this is the sharpest edge I've experienced, it hasn't been the most comfortable shave. But I am quite inexperienced and do find that the resulting irritation is also tending to happen exactly where I expect: on my neck where I have the most sensitive skin and worst technique. As a result, I assume this is just the sharper edge being less forgiving of my errors.
I did do some draw strokes, but if I didn't fully remove the fin edge, would it be obvious? eg. would it likely be rough all over and not just where I happen to be most sensitive? The edge looked smooth on my cheap 640x480 "800x" usb microscope, would a fin edge be inconsistent and jagged from partially breaking off?
- Thread starter
- #515
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
At 800x most definitely you will see any artifacts on the edge. Really, 200x is plenty of magnification.
The cure/prevention of course is more pull strokes, followed by a half dozen ordinary laps. At the .1u level I really don't think it is possible to have too many pull strokes. Coarser grits, maybe. At .5u I would not want more than a dozen, I am thinking. YMMV.
The cure/prevention of course is more pull strokes, followed by a half dozen ordinary laps. At the .1u level I really don't think it is possible to have too many pull strokes. Coarser grits, maybe. At .5u I would not want more than a dozen, I am thinking. YMMV.
Congrats! You did it. The Method produces superb edges. Keep at it and you will be surprised how good it gets. I have razors I haven’t had to hone since I started in April just by doing the .1u maintenance daily. I’m finding the edges actually improve rather than deteriorate.
@Slash McCoy a dozen eh? Ok, I was doing half that, will add some more to be safe and see if that helps. But ya, I don't see anything although I put the "800x" in quotes for a good reason, I doubt it quite manages that. 200x I'm pretty sure it gets to though. Still an amazing device for 10 bucks. Feedback much appreciated!
@steveclarkus thanks for the encouragement! Fell back to one I have a coticule edge on for today to give my face a break but I'll keep at it with the balsa. Based on what you say I'll concentrate my balsa efforts on a single razor and see how the edge matures over time.
@steveclarkus thanks for the encouragement! Fell back to one I have a coticule edge on for today to give my face a break but I'll keep at it with the balsa. Based on what you say I'll concentrate my balsa efforts on a single razor and see how the edge matures over time.
Great. I would like to hear back from you on that. The biggest improvement seems to be the comfort of the edge.
- Thread starter
- #519
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
If edge looks good under magnification, and does well at treetopping or HHT, whatever sharpness test you use, and you don't see any deep scratches in the bevel especially near the edge, then you should be good. Running the balsa progression again or maybe just the .1u ought to bring it home nicely. I find that a half dozen pull strokes is enough. For me. And I am only theorizing about more than a dozen possibly being excessive at coarser grits. It is a YMMV thing at this point. But if every indication is that you have a sharp Method edge, maybe it is your shave that is off, and you need to adjust to the keener edge by using a tighter shave angle. These edges, especially on a razor with an acute bevel angle, perform best with the spine barely off the face, for most shavers. I know I very nearly drag the spine on my face when shaving with a well finished Method edge, same as with a shavette and a Feather DE blade. This is I think part of the perception of greater smoothness that most Method honers experience in their shaves. Note that actually dragging the spine can make the shave feel less rather than more kind to the face. That is very much a YMMV thing I think. Having tried it, I find the razor sometimes travels in fits and starts, kind of jerky, with the spine dragging, even with the best lather I can manage. Lifting it just off the skin is a game changer, for me.
One more thing that I might mention is that a very highly polished bevel that is particularly wide can sometimes develop a sort of stiction to the face. This can make a razor feel unkind to the skin. Lately I have been giving some thought to this and I might try to come up with a workable, practical solution to that problem. Meanwhile if you are getting comfortable edges on razors with a narrower bevel but not very wide bevels, (talking about the actual width of the bevel surface) you might try your hand at Jnat finishing. Under certain conditions a Jnat finish with it's classic cloudy surface seems to break the face stiction. YMMV. Or else go back to the higher shave angle and just watch the pressure closely. There are so many factors at play here that sometimes with some razors you get unexpected results that make slight changes in technique perform better. This entire post is very much a YMMV thing. Sticking to The Method as originally posted WILL give you an astonishingly sharp edge. USUALLY with a small shave angle it will feel very smooth on the face. If none of your razors do, assuming you have a variety of razors and not just a bouquet of GDs or wedges or whatever, then you are doing something wrong. Look to the shave, as well as to the edge itself, for the answer.
Haha, yes, no maybe about it, I'm almost certain it's my inexperience as I'm little more than three dozen shaves in. 'tis why I said "I assume this is just the sharper edge being less forgiving of my errors." Thanks for reiterating the advice about shave angle; I was definitely dialing it back with the sharpness in mind but not to the degree you're talking about so you've very likely diagnosed exactly my issue. Now I will see how close I can get and still shave.
My question about wire edges was because you included the draw strokes to deal with them and I'd always seen them mentioned as a possible consequence to edge trailing honing but I have no idea how I'd notice if I was failing to knock them free entirely. I'll not worry about it much since you say it should be quite apparent on the scope and I do a careful pass still before subjecting myself to a new edge. Out of curiosity though, how would it shave if I had one? I get the impression it wouldn't be subtle?
My question about wire edges was because you included the draw strokes to deal with them and I'd always seen them mentioned as a possible consequence to edge trailing honing but I have no idea how I'd notice if I was failing to knock them free entirely. I'll not worry about it much since you say it should be quite apparent on the scope and I do a careful pass still before subjecting myself to a new edge. Out of curiosity though, how would it shave if I had one? I get the impression it wouldn't be subtle?
