How do you safely unpin ivory scales?
- Thread starter noahpictures
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Let one of the professional guys, like Doc or Mycarver. Unless you know what your doing,cuz you may end up with a split and shattered scale with egg on your face. They look to be very nice scales,good luck!
It's funny the original poster just asked this - I was about to do the same 
Apart from the obvious fact that one has to be very careful, I'd also appreciate practical advice on how to deal with this - I'm going to have to deal with this because of a razor I recently acquired, and since I never dealt with ivory scales, I'd like to know what to expect, from someone who's done it before - unpinning, and of course pinning - I suppose the material is more brittle so one would have to be much more careful with tightening as you pin it ?
Thanks !
Apart from the obvious fact that one has to be very careful, I'd also appreciate practical advice on how to deal with this - I'm going to have to deal with this because of a razor I recently acquired, and since I never dealt with ivory scales, I'd like to know what to expect, from someone who's done it before - unpinning, and of course pinning - I suppose the material is more brittle so one would have to be much more careful with tightening as you pin it ?
Thanks !
I have unpinned dozens of ivory scales. Here is a set I just unpinned last week:
The process is straightforward but I take my SWEET TIME with it.
What I do:
Get my dremel out, and put a metal grinding disc on it - a smaller disc is better because a tighter radius will help get deeper into the pin without contacting the scales. I then Very, VERY carefully grind the peen down. I'm talking like tiny, tiny swipes of the dremel grinding wheel on the pin head. I continue to do this until I am flush with the side of the scales. If you hit the scales, it isn't the end of the world - you can sand it out a bit later. Again, if you accidentally hit it, you should have just *barely* hit it. This is not the time for heavy pressure grinding. Tiny, deliberate grinding strokes on the peen will mean quickly realizing when/if you accidentally hit the ivory.
After I am flush with the scale, I will lay the razor on a wood block, positioning the other pin head over a small drilled out hole in the wood. then, I *carefully* tap the ground down pin with a punch. I'm talking, the same little 4oz hammer I use to pin razors, I tap this pin.
This usually will push the pin through. One of the two razors I pictured above, the pin simply would not budge.
So, thats when I go to plan B. I drilled out the pin using a 1/16" drill bit on my drill press with very slow speed setting. I spent so long and was so accurate with the drilling, that I literally ended up with a metal tube holding the razor together, the center of the pin totally removed. At that point., I carefully applied pressure from the other side of the scale (between the tang and scale) with a very thin blade pocket knife, and the razor freed itself.
Final step, breathe a sigh of relief.
Lesson here is, take your time. I spent about 30 minutes unpinning those two razors.
The process is straightforward but I take my SWEET TIME with it.
What I do:
Get my dremel out, and put a metal grinding disc on it - a smaller disc is better because a tighter radius will help get deeper into the pin without contacting the scales. I then Very, VERY carefully grind the peen down. I'm talking like tiny, tiny swipes of the dremel grinding wheel on the pin head. I continue to do this until I am flush with the side of the scales. If you hit the scales, it isn't the end of the world - you can sand it out a bit later. Again, if you accidentally hit it, you should have just *barely* hit it. This is not the time for heavy pressure grinding. Tiny, deliberate grinding strokes on the peen will mean quickly realizing when/if you accidentally hit the ivory.
After I am flush with the scale, I will lay the razor on a wood block, positioning the other pin head over a small drilled out hole in the wood. then, I *carefully* tap the ground down pin with a punch. I'm talking, the same little 4oz hammer I use to pin razors, I tap this pin.
This usually will push the pin through. One of the two razors I pictured above, the pin simply would not budge.
So, thats when I go to plan B. I drilled out the pin using a 1/16" drill bit on my drill press with very slow speed setting. I spent so long and was so accurate with the drilling, that I literally ended up with a metal tube holding the razor together, the center of the pin totally removed. At that point., I carefully applied pressure from the other side of the scale (between the tang and scale) with a very thin blade pocket knife, and the razor freed itself.
Final step, breathe a sigh of relief.
Lesson here is, take your time. I spent about 30 minutes unpinning those two razors.
Since my name was used in vain,,, ( LOL) Here's what you do. Or , what I do to unpin these things as well as most other razors.
Hopefully you have , or have access to a drill press. I personally wouldn't want to try this with just a hand drill. The second thing you need is a strong stomach as with these it'll be tossing and turning until you get the last pin out. Then , your heart will be in your throat when you go to put the pins back in.
They are nail biters.
First you need to make a divot in the very center of the pin. Using a file to flatten the rounded part of the head of the pin will give you a bit of a flat were you can make the small divot. Using something like a dremel you can get very small cutters, I use a ball end cutter , to make the small recess in the very center of the pin. This is the equivalent of center punching a piece of metal to keep the drill bit from squirming around.
Now,, If your still breathing OK,, this is when you'll stop breathing as you head to the drill press. Chuck a 1/16 bit in the press. Be sure to sink that drill bit in as far as it will go. If you have a lot of it sticking out,, cut some of it off. You want very little bit sticking out of the chuck.
Why? Well a 1/16 bit flexes quite a bit with very little pressure. Not having a lot stick out it doesn't want to flex and you have more control.
I don't recommend sitting the blade flat on the surface of the machine. You in all probability cannot drill a hole through the center of the pin as drift, the divot being slightly off etc. won't allow that to happen. Instead , use a small block where the razor just rests on the edge of it allowing you to adjust the angle of the blade, hence the direction of the bit, as you gently lower the bit. Sometimes you have to add a little "English" to the razor to control the direction of the bit.
Drill just slightly below the level of the scale and you can usually use the edge of a knife to get the remaining pin to collapse on itself allowing you to remove the scale safely. I hope!
OOPS,, you snuck in under me.!
Hopefully you have , or have access to a drill press. I personally wouldn't want to try this with just a hand drill. The second thing you need is a strong stomach as with these it'll be tossing and turning until you get the last pin out. Then , your heart will be in your throat when you go to put the pins back in.
They are nail biters.
First you need to make a divot in the very center of the pin. Using a file to flatten the rounded part of the head of the pin will give you a bit of a flat were you can make the small divot. Using something like a dremel you can get very small cutters, I use a ball end cutter , to make the small recess in the very center of the pin. This is the equivalent of center punching a piece of metal to keep the drill bit from squirming around.
Now,, If your still breathing OK,, this is when you'll stop breathing as you head to the drill press. Chuck a 1/16 bit in the press. Be sure to sink that drill bit in as far as it will go. If you have a lot of it sticking out,, cut some of it off. You want very little bit sticking out of the chuck.
Why? Well a 1/16 bit flexes quite a bit with very little pressure. Not having a lot stick out it doesn't want to flex and you have more control.
I don't recommend sitting the blade flat on the surface of the machine. You in all probability cannot drill a hole through the center of the pin as drift, the divot being slightly off etc. won't allow that to happen. Instead , use a small block where the razor just rests on the edge of it allowing you to adjust the angle of the blade, hence the direction of the bit, as you gently lower the bit. Sometimes you have to add a little "English" to the razor to control the direction of the bit.
Drill just slightly below the level of the scale and you can usually use the edge of a knife to get the remaining pin to collapse on itself allowing you to remove the scale safely. I hope!
OOPS,, you snuck in under me.!
Here are some shots of a piece I did recently and you can see how I was able to drill through the center of the pin.
I figured a couple more shots couldn't hurt.
There are obviously different ways of doing this. One thing to use caution with is trying to tap out the pin. It does work but use care as you tap . On several occasions this has led to the drift going off course, sliding alongside the pin and causing the scale to crack if all the peened section isn't gone. And you can only get so close when working with Ivory lest you accidentally dig into it. Once the drift goes off course trouble starts.
Drilling , on the other hand also presents some issues as well should the bit go off course as well. But by being able to control the bit in the press and going below the surface has worked better for me in most cases. I've cracked several using other methods.
I figured a couple more shots couldn't hurt.
There are obviously different ways of doing this. One thing to use caution with is trying to tap out the pin. It does work but use care as you tap . On several occasions this has led to the drift going off course, sliding alongside the pin and causing the scale to crack if all the peened section isn't gone. And you can only get so close when working with Ivory lest you accidentally dig into it. Once the drift goes off course trouble starts.
Drilling , on the other hand also presents some issues as well should the bit go off course as well. But by being able to control the bit in the press and going below the surface has worked better for me in most cases. I've cracked several using other methods.
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mycarver, your process is pretty much the same as mine. I do try the dremel first usually, sometimes makes it very quick. Drill press scares the crap out of me usually.
Oh Yeah, I usually have to change my shorts afterward. But not keeping the blade fixed as I'm sure you know helps tremendously by being able to angle the blade as the bit is doing its thing.
Thanks everyone - it's great to learn from the masters
I have a question regarding pinning - most, if not all, of the razors I've seen are pinned with the pin and small washers, but I've noticed that in some of the photos I've seen of ivory scaled razors, there doesn't seem to be a washer - is it because you don't want to put so much pressure on the scale so you don't risk cracking it ?
Thanks !
I have a question regarding pinning - most, if not all, of the razors I've seen are pinned with the pin and small washers, but I've noticed that in some of the photos I've seen of ivory scaled razors, there doesn't seem to be a washer - is it because you don't want to put so much pressure on the scale so you don't risk cracking it ?
Thanks !
Two other things you have to remember to do while attempting this job.
One.
Breathe. Even though you're holding your breath during the process,, you don't want to pass out. So keep breathing. It's important to do this regularly.
Two.
When you have the scales safely off the blade, thrust both fists in the air and dance around the shop as if you just came in first in the Boston Marathon.
One.
Breathe. Even though you're holding your breath during the process,, you don't want to pass out. So keep breathing. It's important to do this regularly.
Two.
When you have the scales safely off the blade, thrust both fists in the air and dance around the shop as if you just came in first in the Boston Marathon.
I don't mean to thread jack, but I see something that need a question asked... The pivot pins are usually 1/16", but in a couple of the pictures in this post the pivot hole seems to be near 1/8". Is/was that by design? Or is this from wear? How do you deal with it on restores?
I've noticed many old blades come with holes that seem to have been made in a rough way, some even shaped oblong, square, etc - like if they were punched while the steel was still red hot, and sometimes, I've used a little bit of material to shim the pin so that the blade doesn't "wobble" on the 1/16" pin.
[edit] I don't believe the enlarged holes are due to wear - if anything, the wear would be on the nickel or brass pin, not on the hardened steel.
[edit] I don't believe the enlarged holes are due to wear - if anything, the wear would be on the nickel or brass pin, not on the hardened steel.
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My thoughts a well, and the main reason for asking... With tightness, and consistency being a warrented value, is this issue dealt with, or is it status quo?
Khay I think is correct. They were merely punched while hot. I've never bothered trying to shim a hole as the play can sometimes be helpful with the blade centering etc.. These aren't Swiss watches and a bit of play there doesn't bother a thing. Millions were made and seemed to survive just fine.
I have to agree.
There have been, in a few cases, times when the hole was just, crazy big. In those situations, I've done this:
Undream's 30 second Pivot Hole Sleeves
(Patented, feel free to pay royalties
)I'm sure some of you have done pivot pin sleeves made out of brass tubing before to get those big old sheffield blades swingin' smoothly. Its kinda hard to get that little tube cut into the right size though, ain't it? Well.. here is my method I developed over the last 6 months. I can make a sleeve in about 30 seconds.
What you need:
* 1/16" rod
* 1/16" inner diameter / 3/32" outer diameter brass tube
* Disc sander (or a sheet of sandpaper if you want to make it a 10 minute pivot hole sleeve)
* wire cutters
STEP 1: GET SOME TUBING! most of the time, tubing is always pinched from the last cut, right?
STEP 2: Get rid of the pinch!
STEP 3: Cut off appoximately double the tang width. Its gonna pinch again. d'oh!
STEP 5: Heres my trick! take some of your 1/16 rod, and just slip that little nub onto it!
STEP 6: Take it back to the sander, and sand off that pinch!
TADA!#@!@#!@
Who knows..maybe you guys are already doing something similar. But, if you're not, then, maybe this will help some of you out!!
-Brad
How to unpin ivory-VERY CAREFULLY.
I agree with the previous posts. I would wear down the pin with a file, then drill it out. I would drill out both sides and GENTLY tap it out, I mean real, real gently. I tend to practice removing even beat up scales with this method and most of the time I am able to remove the scales intact. I have many times cracked them from the tiniest tap or even drilling it.
I can always make you new ivory scales if you like.
I agree with the previous posts. I would wear down the pin with a file, then drill it out. I would drill out both sides and GENTLY tap it out, I mean real, real gently. I tend to practice removing even beat up scales with this method and most of the time I am able to remove the scales intact. I have many times cracked them from the tiniest tap or even drilling it.
I can always make you new ivory scales if you like.
After reading all of this, I'm NEVER going to try and unpin a set of Ivory scales.
