Hones for a beginner and interested in restoring old Straights

[Nicktheswede]

I've recently acquired a few straights from antique stores and now I really have the desire to restore these. I've been reading up a lot on making new scales, pinning, restoring and getting imperfections out of the metal and polishing up nicely, however I know I am missing one this. Restoring it to become shave ready. My original plan was to send the two razors I acquired either to a member here or a honer. However now I acquired a few more straights and I figured for the price that I will pay to have them all honed ( I figure maybe 10-20 dollars each and I have 7-8 straights now I think? ) I might as well buy a few hones and do it myself. I've been trying to find good articles and reading up a lot so I wouldn't have to post this thread since I'm sure this is a regular thread. From what I've read I find it hard to gauge where I should start as with which grit stone. 600? 1000? 1200? I understand it depends on the razor and how dull it is but most of these razors are very dull and won't even cut me if pressed down on the skin. I think I've figured out that a 4K and 8K and 12K shall be necessary. I've heard Norton 4/8K is very popular. What do you recommend for the 12K? and also for the possible lower grits such as 600? or 1000?

Also is there an article or book, or perhaps some good videos one can request?

 

[Gamma]

You will need at least one lower grit stone - for setting bevels.

 

[Pkrankow]

You can get by with a coticule. It *CAN* set bevels, but it is a chore to do restores with. A coticule will provide a very nice shaving edge for finishing. Finishing on a coticule is not difficult, the stone gives several feedback markers.

http://www.coticule.be/home.html

Now, if you are doing more than maintaining a near shave ready or shave ready razor you will want (need) a bevel setter. A Naniwa Chosera 1k is about the best there is. You can go straight from the Chosera to the coticule on slurry and expect good results. The Chosera also gives similar feedback to the coticule.

Phil

 

[jeness]

The budget is the main concern. If you are wiling to pay the price, than Chosera 1k, Super stone 5k, 8k, 12k, and a DMT8C for flattening, and for very heavy bevel work. If you want the cheapest? Get a coti, but prepare for a long and frustrating journey. The truth is that with prices cotis cost nowadays, they arent that great a choice. Yes, you can do everything on them, but if you buy a normal sized one, than thats 100$ or more. For that money you can get a full Norton set with a 12k chinese for finishing.

 

[nortac]

How does the Chosera differ from the standard or super ? Where can you get the Chosera?

 

[jeness]

2,5x thicker, harder, slower wearing, doesn't glaze, faster, and costs about 2x as much. In theory needs soaking, but I have found that it is enough to spray it with water, and let it there for 5 mins, and it is ready to go. Heck, it works even in a splash and go fashion. They can be gotten from various places, do a search for naniwa chosera 1000

 

[Slash McCoy]

For a budget setup, for doing full restorations where you will often have to remove a great deal of steel from a badly damaged edge, get a cheap set of diamond plates from Harbor Freight Tools. These are your troubleshooters... your hitmen. These hones will nuke a frownie or a badky chipped edge into submission. Your main bevel setter can be a Norton 1k or 1k/4k combo. I have a 1k/6k combo Chinese waterstone that I like that I only paid I think $30 on the bay for. 1k is a very common grade to refer to as a bevel setter. If you want to spend a little more money, it is more important IMHO to spend the money on the finer stones. A Naniwa 12k SuperStone is an excellent finisher, though a Chinese 12k waterstone will git 'er done for way less money. The Naniwa will be nice and flat when you get it. The C12k will be lapped but possibly inexpertly and imperfectly. In between the 12k (finisher) and the 1k (bevel setter) you will want one or more stones to refine your edge. 4k and 8k in Naniwa or Norton will work nicely. You could do what I did and look for the 1k/6k Chinese combo stone, lap it yourself on a plate of heavy glass and some wet/dry paper. The 6k bridges the gap okay for me. If you go with a 4k and an 8k, you will find that the 8k will give you a tolerable shaving edge without a finer finisher, so if you have your heart set on the nani 12k but money is tight, you can put it off for a while and finish with the 8k for now.

An ordinary 8k-finished edge is, well, er, very ordinary. It will shave but might not be up to your desired standard. However, with most 8k stones, you can enhance the edge to where you would swear it was finished on a finer stone. An old barber's trick is to use lather, after soaking the stone, and using extremely light strokes and plenty of them. What happens is the lather provides a cushion layer, preventing the stone from cutting as deeply, yielding smaller scratches and therefore a finer, smoother edge. This only works when you use the lightest possible pressure and plenty of laps. You want to take advantage of the cushion, not defeat it. It typically takes a minimum of 200 laps to get the best results with this method, so it is for the patient honer who would rather take his time than buy a 12k nani. I might also add that even without the lather, very light pressure will give a better edge on all your stones once your bevel is roughly set. The edge flexes somewhat under pressure and so you don't end up with a nice flat bevel surface. Heavy pressure on a fine stone can give you the dreaded "fin edge". Plus you won't achieve optimum smoothness.

A Coticule can take the place of all but your bevel setter, but getting the most out of a coticule is an art that takes some dedication to learn. I don't own a coti and I probably never will. If you learn to use it you will turn out some very nice edges, though, without having a bunch of different stones. One nice sized coti and a 1k bevel setter can get you in the game.

If money is not tight, I think a full set of Naniwa superstones is a good investment. The Chosera line is very well regarded, but I think it only goes up to 10k. Here is a link to look at. http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-SSWAT.XX&Category_Code=CNW A full set of Superstones can be had for $295 consisting of 6 stones from 220 grit to 12k. A similar set of Choseras is I think $695 but only goes to 10k. I think the SuperStone is the better value for the money, but if you want top of the line, the Choseras are hard to beat. Both lines are of generous width and length, though not as big as the Chinese waterstones. Still they offer plenty of real estate for razor honing at 2-3/4" wide and over 8" long.

You can get by nicely with the Chinese stones. The Naniwa Superstones I think best for a slightly looser budget. Nortons are good but I don't think they represent the value that the Naniwas do. The Naniwa Chosera if you want to go high ticket. For the ultra grade, consider Shapton, if money is no object.

 

[nortac]

Slash, thanks for the informative post!

 

[nortac]

Do the Naniwa Supers ever need leveling, and if so, can that be done with the DMTD8C?

 

[jeness]

Do the Naniwa Supers ever need leveling, and if so, can that be done with the DMTD8C?

They need regular flattening, and the best tool to do this is a DMT8C. They are very soft, so flattening is very fast and easy. They work and feel better too if lapped regularly, so it is highly recommended.

 

[Brownbear]

I've rescued something like 30 straights now. I've honed out chips, made functional smiling blades out of frowning ones and just recently honed out a bevel wide crack in an old Wilkinson and made it shave again. I've done all this with an EZE-Lap diamond plate with a 400 and 1200 side, and a coticule bout and small slurry stone. OK, truth is I have five coticules but that is because I like them, not because I need them. The EZE lap I bought years ago to hone woodworking tools, it cost about 40-50 bucks. The bout is a natural combo that I paid 70 bucks for. With this combination you can rescue almost any blade that can be rescued.

The diamond plate has the added advantage that you can lap stones with it and raise a slurry in the absence of a slurry stone. It isn't a sexy brand, just does its job and doesn't need lapping, soaking or soothing words.

If you do a lot of this, you will buy more gizmos just because it is fun, but a cheap lapping plate and a bout is all you need to get started.

 

[danjared]

If money is a concern, a DMT 6" course/fine combo and a Belgian blue whetstone (BBW) is all you will ever need. I mean ever. And, it is under $100.

 

[Kentos]

I have a 4 piece nani set, but had been enamored with a coti for the past few months. Just today I broke them out to hone a smiling near wedge. I have to tell you I got a great no fuss edge. I tried to tone down the synthetic edge with some CBN, which seemed to work. If you can swing the cost for a Naniwa progression, it will be hard to go wrong. You can always dabble in cotis afterwards.

 

[Nicktheswede]

WOW! Thank you guys so much for all the information. I am truly stunned. I think after reading all this I will probably start off with Norton 1K, 4K/8K and then perhaps after I start getting a hang off honing possibly adding a 12k to the mix. I'm not truly a newb to honing since I often hone knifes, lawn mower blades, axes and such but as you can understand thats not anywhere close to the level of honing a straight razor. I understand the general fundamentals of honing so I think I will probably pick up honing straights pretty quickly.


Again guys thank you so much for your help! WOW!!

I guess one more question. Cheapest place for Norton's? eBay? Amazon? Perhaps another vendor?

 

[whavens]

I picked up a Norton 220/1K, 4k/8k, lapping stone and tray for $119 from Peachtree Woodworking. I use a Coti for my finisher. With that combination you should be able to tackle anything a razor can throw at you.

 

[Nicktheswede]

Any coupons for that site? It seems that kit is 129.99 now.