High Quality Steel, No Frills... does it exist?

[NightLad]

Hey all,

I’m using a 5/8 Dovo Inox and I really enjoy it. The shaves are just fine, and it didn’t cost me an arm and a leg.

Now I’m looking at the other Dovo blades and would like to get an upgrade. However, as I review the extensive Dovo catalogue I grow ever more concerned with the increasing luxury bells & whistles on the higher quality steel blades.

For example, I’ve read wonderful things about the Bergisher Lowe, but what am I really playing for? The quality of the steel, surely, but are the horn scales increasing the cost, the gold plating, the satin finish, the rubber thumb pad, etc? I don’t care about those things. Heck, half of them are only temporary. So am I ultimately paying $100+ for just the frills?

Basically, I’m interested in high quality steel that will produce a top-quality shave; I don’t feel the need to spend gobs of money for luxury extras on an item I view more as a ‘tool.’ If I ever want to own a high-end collectable razor I’ll order a truly custom piece from a master and pull out all the stops. For now, I just want a high quality steel for a fair and decent price.

Does such a creature exist, or even a close proximity?

 

[stripec30]

Try an older blade, maybe a Filarmonica?

 

[leighton]

LOL. You are most certainly not paying for higher quality steel. The steel in your kitchen knives is high quality steel. The steel that comes out of the steel factories is incredibly good. Granted, not all steel is suitable for razors, but thats not my point.

Even the heat treatment of the higher end blades are probably not any better. They may be made of different or more exotic steels, but the razor you get is unlikely to shave any better than the lower end model.

This does not hold true for NOS blades. The old blades were forged with more attention to detail. And for the most part are superior to the newly minted razors.

As for the few top end razors that are made with "better steel," you can't find them in a plain jane version because it costs the factory too much to make the "better steel" and they need to suck out all the profits they can get by adding a bunch of bells and whistles they charge you extra for.

Your best bet is to find a vintage razor. Or be happy with what you have.

 

[Fnord5]

As far as I know, all Dovo blades are the same, and the fancier versions are just that.

A historical Thiers Issard Le Grelot 1/4 grind though, is the best of both worlds.
It's a new grinding, great care has gone into shaping the blade, and Le Grelot but a lot of effort into the steel.

So, it is a semi-vintage blade, but brand spanking new.
http://www.rasurpur.de/english/shop/shop.html
And comparable to the Dovo in price.

 

[Thebigspendur]

As far as I know, all Dovo blades are the same, and the fancier versions are just that.

A historical Thiers Issard Le Grelot 1/4 grind though, is the best of both worlds.
It's a new grinding, great care has gone into shaping the blade, and Le Grelot but a lot of effort into the steel.

So, it is a semi-vintage blade, but brand spanking new.
http://www.rasurpur.de/english/shop/shop.html
And comparable to the Dovo in price.

No they are not all the same. The Dovo stainless with the MOP is a super shaver as compared to some of the other stainless steels, clearly superior. They also use swedish steel for some of their better razors and another HC steel for others.

 

[Fnord5]

No they are not all the same. The Dovo stainless with the MOP is a super shaver as compared to some of the other stainless steels, clearly superior. They also use swedish steel for some of their better razors and another HC steel for others.

Ahh. Good to know.

 

[gugi]

Now I’m looking at the other Dovo blades and would like to get an upgrade.

What do you consider an upgrade?
The 'new' costs you at least 20% and the brand recognition another 20%-50%.
I personally prefer the more tangible bells and whistles such as horn scales....

 

[English]

The question you have asked deserves an honest answer.

You will not beat an English Sheffield steel from pre 1900 . Post 1900, the Swedish razors and the German razors started to compete. The best from Sheffield would still win hands down, but in amongst the volume that the World was demanding, weaknesses started to appear in the lower end British quality. The British actually moved on to other things.

In Britain, we have stopped making................ and many many years ago.

The worlds best watches
The worlds best razors
The worlds best (perhaps noisiest) airplane. (together with our neighbours)
The worlds best boats
The worlds best cars (we still design formula one winners)
The worlds best computers (read, believe and learn)
No we didn't put a man on the moon......

and so progress goes on.........

I still think I live in the worlds greatest Country but we stopped making razors a long long time ago. I also don't think we produce the worlds best products anymore.

Can you buy modern razors that compete with the pre 1900 Sheffield steel.
Well in all honesty, I have not yet found one and I have tried and tried and tried.

Now, what was your question?

Boy am I an arrogant son of a b..............

But I was born after my forefathers stopped making razors and also in an era when Gillette (ALSO GUESS WHAT.... BRITISH)..... was (and with thanks from my pension fund) still is British.

Do you want to talk about Swedish or Spanish or Italian or even American (mostly German) razors, give me a shout.

God bless you all, I love this forum.

 

[Fnord5]

I would think a custom razor(Ellis/Williams) would put the old Sheffields to shame. But having not shaved with one yet, I can't say for sure.

 

[English]

Well, when you have, you might like to write an apology!

 

[Seraphim]

No they are not all the same. The Dovo stainless with the MOP is a super shaver as compared to some of the other stainless steels, clearly superior. They also use swedish steel for some of their better razors and another HC steel for others.

I contacted Dovo directly a while back in regards to some issues I had had with the stainless 5/8 blade. I was informed that they use the exact same blade for all of their stainless 5/8 razors: the #41 blades, perlex, ebony, MOP, etc. are the same exact blade. They also use the same exact blade for the Micarta razors, but do a laser etch to give it that woodgrained look. With teh MOP you are paying extra for the scales.

I have a #41 Dove stainless (it came with the stainless scales, I got it on EBay), and it really is a great, smooth shaver.

 

[English]

I have just sharpened a DOVO Stainless Micarta and returned it to its owner and it was sharp but it didn't give a smooth comfortable shave. It never will.

I have owned a DOVO stainless Micarta and I never got a smooth shave from it.

I have just sent the guy who sent the DOVO for honing a selection of Sheffield steel razors to select a decent razor. He is impressed and no longer totally disenchanted with straight razor shaving.

I honed all of the razors. It ain't me, I think it's the steel.

And no I don't think DOVO make bad razors, But I do think they are not as good as many vintage razors. Including their own. The steel is just not purpose made or as good.

 

[NightLad]

Thank you for the replies everyone! I'm learning a lot, as well as narrowing down my next buy.

No they are not all the same. The Dovo stainless with the MOP is a super shaver as compared to some of the other stainless steels, clearly superior. They also use swedish steel for some of their better razors and another HC steel for others.

You see, that’s what I’m talking about. Why can’t I get a good blade like that w/o the $200 scales? (I realize Leighton already answered this question, I’m just lamenting the fact.)

What do you consider an upgrade?
The 'new' costs you at least 20% and the brand recognition another 20%-50%.
I personally prefer the more tangible bells and whistles such as horn scales....

I consider an “upgrade” to be any blade of a higher quality than I currently have. (Dovo Solingen Stainless Steel, Inox)

I suppose my main issue is lacking knowledge RE: what separates and defines the various “upper quality” blades from one another. It seems that raw price is of little help when considering the inflation all the luxuries add to the total.

For example: the Swedish Steel on the Bergisher Lowe is a fan favourite, but how does it compare to a standard ‘high carbon’ blade like the Dovo Silver Steel, Bismarck, or Ebony Spike Point? These razors are less adorned than the Bergisher Lowe, which I assume contributes to their lower cost, but clearly their steel is different too.

Short of buying them all and testing them out, how is one to judge? Are there any general guidelines for this sort of thing? Is there any ranking system to go by, even "unofficially"?

Your best bet is to find a vintage razor. Or be happy with what you have.

You will not beat an English Sheffield steel from pre 1900 . Post 1900, the Swedish razors and the German razors started to compete. The best from Sheffield would still win hands down,

I have a Krusius Brothers (Germany; 1889 – 1927) but it is a family heirloom and I’m kind of hesitant to use it regularly. It’s more of a “special occasions” type of razor. I’d have no problem buying a good vintage razor to use in a rotation, but dang, a lot of you guys are quick on the draw at the B/S/T and eBay. LOL

So I’m trying to figure out A) how to understand which [modern] steels really are ‘better’ and B) which razors offer the best bang for the buck in terms of steel quality, as opposed to the bells & whistles.

* Thank you for the Sheffield steel recommendation. I've noticed those razors usually get nabbed fairly quick, and at a pretty penny!

 

[English]

Hey guys, I am just re reading this thread and new posts appear out of sink.
Is it me or is there a problem with the B&B server.

 

[Seraphim]

I have just sharpened a DOVO Stainless Micarta and returned it to its owner and it was sharp but it didn't give a smooth comfortable shave. It never will.

I have owned a DOVO stainless Micarta and I never got a smooth shave from it.

I have just sent the guy who sent the DOVO for honing a selection of Sheffield steel razors to select a decent razor. He is impressed and no longer totally disenchanted with straight razor shaving.

I honed all of the razors. It ain't me, I think it's the steel.

And no I don't think DOVO make bad razors, But I do think they are not as good as many vintage razors. Including their own. The steel is just not purpose made or as good.

May I ask what you use to sharpen your razors?

I am working on a theory that some people have difficulties with stainless razor honing due to their choice of hone, rather than an inability of the stainless to take a good edge. Any thoughts?

 

[NightLad]

Hey guys, I am just re reading this thread and new posts appear out of sink.
Is it me or is there a problem with the B&B server.

I see that too. The time-stamps are not in sequence.

 

[English]

Hey Nightlad,

Joking apart, a good vintage razor from a quality maker circa 1900 will knock spots off all the razors you have mentioned. They may be English German or Swedish or Spanish.

 

[The Knize]

May I ask what you use to sharpen your razors?

I am working on a theory that some people have difficulties with stainless razor honing due to their choice of hone, rather than an inability of the stainless to take a good edge. Any thoughts?

Fascinating, S. I have a hunch you are right. Why wouldn't the match of the hone to the steel be significant? Or put differently, how could that match not be a significant factor?

 

[NightLad]

Hey Nightlad,

Joking apart, a good vintage razor from a quality maker circa 1900 will knock spots off all the razors you have mentioned. They may be English German or Swedish or Spanish.

I have no doubt, but without sounding like a cry-baby, I've already lost several auctions on such blades. Just a few days ago I nearly wet myself when I found a near-mint late 1800s German razor from a small company. It was in pristine condition, right down to the scales. The tang was still blued, the blade flawless, extremely light hone ware, shave ready and just exuding quality. Sweet price too, but before I could hit 'buy it now' it was already gone.

Hence my refocusing on modern. Well, that, and I just want to get a better gauge of where modern steels rank in the world of straight razors. I am still fairly new to the technical aspects. I'll still keep my eyes open for a good vintage, but I'd like to add to my rotation by the end of the month or thereabouts. My RAD is... itching.

 

[English]

May I ask what you use to sharpen your razors?

I am working on a theory that some people have difficulties with stainless razor honing due to their choice of hone, rather than an inability of the stainless to take a good edge. Any thoughts?

Yes that is a fair observation. I think that that the stainless blades respond better to a harder surfaced hone. The DMT hones especially suite the stainless blades for bevel setting and sharpening and for polishing, "some" stainless blades (not especially DOVO) require more passes to achieve the optimum polish/sharpness.

Look I don't have all this stuff in front of me to demonstrate it but I have tried many variations on a theme and gut understand what works and what doesn't.

I got the DOVO Micarta to a really high level of sharpness. I used mine for daily shaving and it gave a pefectly adequate shave. But the shave just doen't compete with the smoothness and closeness of a good quality vintage carbon steel blade. It isn't a hone issue IMHO or a honing skill issue for that matter. The vintage carbon steel is both smoother and sharper.